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Old November 25, 2011, 02:27 PM   #1
Andy Griffith
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3Fg too hot for shotgun use?

I've read in different publications that 3Fg blackpowder is too hot for shotguns, and than 2Fg is ideal, and Fg is too slow. I've tried Fg, and haven't seen any problems with any loads with it...except maybe some extra burning powder out the end of the barrel- still good patterns and clean loads.

The conundrum that I am having, is that the Goex website has a load data list which lists 3Fg with some very, very heavy loads. There is a 3" 12ga load with 1 1/2oz of shot with 102grns of 3Fg!!!

I want to try to chronograph some of my loads for hunting to see what goes, but I doubt it's going to show up on the machine with my wad column.
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Old November 27, 2011, 09:06 AM   #2
savagelover
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Andy,

For what it's worth,I had a double barrel in 12 ga...I found the 1f to be about the best in mine..Wish I had kept it..I am thinking that 3f might be a typo and that sounds off the chart.But one never knows..I also used the 2 f but kept coming back to the 1f...Good luck with it and be safe...John
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Old November 27, 2011, 09:47 AM   #3
Hawg
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I don't think you'll have any problems with 3F but I think you'd do better with 70-80 grains. If you use that much powder you have to use a lot of shot or you'll blow the pattern all to hell.
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Old November 27, 2011, 11:10 AM   #4
Andy Griffith
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I figured i'd have to reduce the powder charge by 5-10% when going from FFg to FFFg- simply because it is slightly more dense. I don't plan on loads any heavier than 1 1/8oz., simply because if I can't kill it with that, I don't need to be hunting.

Good patterns, and clean, fully burning charges are for what I'm striving. So far, I've reached that, and tweaking it.

It's a pity, but little hard documentation and research has been done in the area of good hunting shotshell and muzzleloading shotgun loads with blackpowder. Simply put, it's a very small niche as shooting goes- as most blackpowder shooters are interested in rifle or pistol shooting- both of which are more straightforward with more easily quantifiable results.

It's a dad-burn full day's work to go to the range and set up and pattern shotgun loads. In all my years, I've only known two other fellers around me that actually went through the trouble to see how their shotguns patterned and where they shot.

Oh, here's the Goex load chart for shotshells:
http://www.goexpowder.com/images/Loa...-SG-Shells.pdf
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Old November 27, 2011, 03:47 PM   #5
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Andy, you need not get too sophisticated in order to pattern the gun. All you need is a magic marker or Sharpie (for drawing on an aiming point, & labeling the patterns), a roll of butcher paper, stapel gun or tape, and a cardboard box (a sheet of cardboard on a target stand is better but the box works). Staple a piece of butcher paper to the box, mark an aiming point and get back 10 or 20 paces/yards and blam away. The aiming point will tell you where your barrel is aiming. Not all shotgun barrels are regulated, at least not on all of my SXSs. A 10" 90% pattern at 10 yds is a full choke pattern (i.e. 90% of the pellets inside a 10" circle). Even at 10 yds you will be able to see if your pattern is wide, center dense, blown ("donut" pattern), etc. There is no need for a formal patterning board and a 30 or 40 yard distance. I have patterned dozens of different loads for different guns, wads, and powders and 10 yds was plenty to show up problems or good results.
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Old November 27, 2011, 05:54 PM   #6
Hawg
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With a muzzleloader start with an equal amount of powder and shot by volume. To open a pattern up use less shot than powder. To tighten a pattern use more shot than powder.
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Old November 28, 2011, 04:23 PM   #7
Noz
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What Hawg said.

I find that the easiest way to find where your shotgun is shooting is to shoot 10 rounds at a marked aiming point at your normal shotgunning distance. go to the target and look for the most dense spot on the paper. This is the center of your pattern. Now see what the relationship is between the POA and the POI. If you are lucky they are the same.

I started with a square load. Equal amounts of powder and shot as measured by volume. I found that this produced a very soft centered pattern.
Reduce powder charge by 15% and the pattern became very even but wide. Reduced further and the pattern became denser at the center. I currently shoot 1 oz of shot over a light load of FFg that gives me the equivalent of a nice tight dense pattern. It must be noted that shotguns are vdery picky about how you feed them in that my loads may be total failures out of your gun.
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Old November 28, 2011, 07:06 PM   #8
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Noz,
Why shoot 10 rounds to determine the POI? Why not just load a patched round ball at 10 or 20 yds? I'm both too cheap and lazy to waste 10 rounds.
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Old November 29, 2011, 02:34 PM   #9
Noz
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I'm here to tell you a patched round ball and a load of shot will NOT shoot to the same POI.
I tried that years ago with a 61 cal musket. The round ball was so far off to be completely out of the question as a usable item. The shot tended to be very near POA.

Too cheap, Hellgate? Just pretend a flight of doves just went past. 10 rounds goes just like that.
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Old November 29, 2011, 04:23 PM   #10
Hellgate
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I may well be living under another fallacy. I'm more geared to POA/POI at CAS distances of about 10 yards rather than farther out where game may be taken. So at 20, 30, or 50 yards out my assumption of the ball following the shot mass may be wrong. Since I have never bothered to test my process at any great distance I can't claim the truth is all on my side. I guess I've got one more project to try. So many guns, so little time.
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Old November 30, 2011, 08:15 AM   #11
darkgael
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load

Quote:
There is a 3" 12ga load with 1 1/2oz of shot with 102grns of 3Fg!!!
Are you shooting BP shotshells or a MLing shotgun? I am not clear on that issue and I suspect that the loads and results are going to be different.
102 grains is nearly a four dram charge. Quite a lot with any shotgun.
In fact, I suspect that if you put 102 grains of powder into a 3" shotshell, there is not enough room left for a wad and 1.5 ounces of shot and then a crimp. I just dropped 102 into a 2 3/4" hull and the wad protrudes 1/8" - that means you'd have just 1/8" clearance in a three inch hull.
So...which type of gun are we talking about?
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Last edited by darkgael; November 30, 2011 at 08:21 AM.
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Old November 30, 2011, 09:33 AM   #12
Andy Griffith
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I'm working up loads in hulls.

I don't use anything except brass hulls for 12ga blackpowder loads, and i got fancy and have ten, 12ga 3" RMC cases- so I can glue in the overshot wad with fingernail polish.

The best thing about the longer cases, is that there is more room for full cushion wads. They do just barely work through the action of my Winchester 12 duck gun, but I won't be ejecting them on the ground!

I don't have any intention of trying that top end load that Goex lists above.
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Old November 30, 2011, 03:47 PM   #13
darkgael
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RMC

RMC hulls are the berries. Yeah...they will do.
Just before, on another website, I read about a Turkey load in a MLer that is 140 grains of BP and two ounces of shot. 102, even FFFg seems kinda tame compared to that.
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