pump vs sxs

Andrewh · November 24, 2011, 02:51 PM

have a baikal bounty hunter II, and been thinking of switching to the 1897's, since they have come down in price.

any serious draw backs?

Hawg Haggen · November 24, 2011, 05:11 PM

If you're talking about the Norinco's the later models are best. The early ones were problematic and had crappy wood. The middle ones have good actions and crappy wood. Newer ones have nice actions and American Walnut.

sltm1 · November 25, 2011, 01:07 PM

I just purchased and rebuilt a 1925 97', total cost was $178.00. There are deals out there and on GB $350 is the median price for a shooter, I'd choose one of those over a Norinco any day of the week.

Hawg Haggen · November 25, 2011, 01:54 PM

I've got one of the mid model Norinco's. Wood is crappy but never had a problem with it.

Andrewh · November 25, 2011, 03:49 PM

I was mainly wondering if there was a disadvantage to competing with one over sxs.

I see video's of people loading one at a time vs 2.

don't recall seeing a pump action where I have competed, but it was a small group. most aren't coach guns, just old dbl barrels with pretty long barrels.

Hawg Haggen · November 25, 2011, 04:32 PM

You don't need the coach gun, long barrels get you closer to the target

. Some can load a 97 over the top faster but it takes a lot of practice to be proficient at it.

Andrewh · November 26, 2011, 09:23 PM

lol. thanks.

ChuteTheMall · November 26, 2011, 11:37 PM

If you mess up with a SxS, you just reload it and proceed.

If you mess up with a '97, you might have an entertaining train wreck while the timer ticks away.

Both are fun.

Jim Watson · November 26, 2011, 11:52 PM

Nearly all the CAS pumpgunners I have seen did the "over the top" or some other one by one loading method. Loading the gun like a real user for hunt or fight is not effective under the rules.

Hardcase · November 27, 2011, 12:59 AM

I love my 97s, but SxS doesn't have this problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=2OtX2k_ixC0

Hawg Haggen · November 27, 2011, 04:13 AM

But when you don't have a bad hat day.

http://youtu.be/O8bJ3TLEbZw?t=16s

Hardcase · November 27, 2011, 07:20 PM

Amen, brother!

SG29736 · November 28, 2011, 01:45 AM

The 97's used to have more of an advantage when a lot more of the SASS clubs had you stage your long guns vertically, open and empty, in a rack or against a wall. It was harder to pick up and restage your empty side by side, making sure the action didn't close. Now a lot more clubs have you stage your long guns on a flat table or hay bale and it's easier to pickup or restage your double shotgun without having the action close up on you. Also, they don't have as many odd numbered shotgun targets as they used to have. The 97's could have and advantage on stages with odd numbers of targets.

Some shooters, including some of the best, have started using double barrels again, partly because of the previously mentioned changes, and partly because some shooters seem to have that one really bad stage out of 10 or 12 when they have a problem with their 97. They have found that they rarely have a mechanical problem with the side by side, avoiding that one really bad stage. Mark

Noz · November 28, 2011, 05:15 PM

Seems like:

2 targets advantage to SxS.
3 targets advantage to SxS if allowed to dump live round.
4 targets even
5 or more advantage to 97.
Any odd number required and no live round dump, advantage goes to the 97.
It does seem like there are more "wrecks" with the 97 among the less experienced shooters.

November 24, 2011, 02:51 PM	#1
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 1999 Posts: 895	pump vs sxs have a baikal bounty hunter II, and been thinking of switching to the 1897's, since they have come down in price. any serious draw backs?

November 24, 2011, 05:11 PM	#2
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,228	If you're talking about the Norinco's the later models are best. The early ones were problematic and had crappy wood. The middle ones have good actions and crappy wood. Newer ones have nice actions and American Walnut. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

November 25, 2011, 01:54 PM	#4
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,228	I've got one of the mid model Norinco's. Wood is crappy but never had a problem with it. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

November 25, 2011, 04:32 PM	#6
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,228	You don't need the coach gun, long barrels get you closer to the target. Some can load a 97 over the top faster but it takes a lot of practice to be proficient at it. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

November 26, 2011, 11:37 PM	#8
ChuteTheMall Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 1999 Location: occupied Northern Virginia Posts: 179	If you mess up with a SxS, you just reload it and proceed. If you mess up with a '97, you might have an entertaining train wreck while the timer ticks away. Both are fun. __________________ ChuteTheMallGawdSortaMount

November 25, 2011, 01:07 PM	#3
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 250	I just purchased and rebuilt a 1925 97', total cost was $178.00. There are deals out there and on GB $350 is the median price for a shooter, I'd choose one of those over a Norinco any day of the week.

November 25, 2011, 03:49 PM	#5
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 1999 Posts: 895	I was mainly wondering if there was a disadvantage to competing with one over sxs. I see video's of people loading one at a time vs 2. don't recall seeing a pump action where I have competed, but it was a small group. most aren't coach guns, just old dbl barrels with pretty long barrels.

November 26, 2011, 09:23 PM	#7
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 1999 Posts: 895	lol. thanks.

November 26, 2011, 11:52 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,666	Nearly all the CAS pumpgunners I have seen did the "over the top" or some other one by one loading method. Loading the gun like a real user for hunt or fight is not effective under the rules.

November 27, 2011, 12:59 AM	#10
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	I love my 97s, but SxS doesn't have this problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=2OtX2k_ixC0 __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

November 27, 2011, 04:13 AM	#11
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,228	But when you don't have a bad hat day. http://youtu.be/O8bJ3TLEbZw?t=16s __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

November 27, 2011, 07:20 PM	#12
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	Amen, brother! __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

November 28, 2011, 01:45 AM	#13
SG29736 Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Location: Northern Ca. Posts: 78	The 97's used to have more of an advantage when a lot more of the SASS clubs had you stage your long guns vertically, open and empty, in a rack or against a wall. It was harder to pick up and restage your empty side by side, making sure the action didn't close. Now a lot more clubs have you stage your long guns on a flat table or hay bale and it's easier to pickup or restage your double shotgun without having the action close up on you. Also, they don't have as many odd numbered shotgun targets as they used to have. The 97's could have and advantage on stages with odd numbers of targets. Some shooters, including some of the best, have started using double barrels again, partly because of the previously mentioned changes, and partly because some shooters seem to have that one really bad stage out of 10 or 12 when they have a problem with their 97. They have found that they rarely have a mechanical problem with the side by side, avoiding that one really bad stage. Mark

November 28, 2011, 05:15 PM	#14
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 585	Seems like: 2 targets advantage to SxS. 3 targets advantage to SxS if allowed to dump live round. 4 targets even 5 or more advantage to 97. Any odd number required and no live round dump, advantage goes to the 97. It does seem like there are more "wrecks" with the 97 among the less experienced shooters.