The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 20, 2011, 11:12 PM   #1
Aussie clive
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 12
Weatherby Vanguard 25/06

Hi guys im having a dillema with a vanguard i bought recently.Its accuracy with factory ammo is awful and iv been trying to work up a load for reloading but everytime i think i have it sorted the next time i shoot it at the range its all over the place again.Iv tried diferent scopes,rings and bases,iv had a rifle basix trigger put on it and still it wont group well at all.Im at the point now were im thinking of selling it and getting a Tikka hunter or CZ 550.Should i persist with trying more loading combinations or should i cut my losses and get something else?The only reason i still have the Vanguard is the price in Australia for the tikka and CZ(around the $1300 mark).Thanks for any advice guys.
Aussie clive is offline  
Old November 21, 2011, 12:18 AM   #2
hermannr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2011
Posts: 730
try re-crowning it. Simple job with a crowning tool. second would be rate of twist v bullet weight.
hermannr is offline  
Old November 21, 2011, 04:26 AM   #3
oldandslow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2007
Posts: 556
AC, 11/21/11

I believe the Vanguard action and barrel are made by Howa from Japan. I have a Howa brand 30-06 which was giving me fits regarding accuracy. No matter what handload I was using or the distance off the lands it wouldn't shoot better than 2.5 MOA, which is pretty poor for a new rifle. The bore and crown looked good but I recrowned it by hand with a recrowning tool I had used on a damaged Remington 700 ADL (tool bought from Brownells). The resulting groups were cut in half with the same loads, to 1 and 1/4 MOA, a big improvement. Not a bench-rest rifle by any means but plenty good enough for wild hogs at reasonable ranges. If possible, and nothing else works out, try recrowning it. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow
oldandslow is offline  
Old November 21, 2011, 07:17 AM   #4
pbrktrt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2008
Posts: 313
Make sure the action screws are torqued properly. It makes a big difference.
pbrktrt is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 12:07 AM   #5
Aussie clive
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 12
Thanks guys,are crowning issues common on newish guns?I mean i hear about stock,scope mounting and action screw issues etc but i hadnt heard much about crowning problems.
Aussie clive is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 12:49 AM   #6
troopcom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Posts: 222
I've got a good ole' remington 700 in 25-06 and it shoots 1 moa or less, if I do my part on a consistent basis. I love this rifle and I only have about $400.00 in it including the scope. IMO Remington has built reliable rifles (minus the 770)
troopcom is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 05:54 AM   #7
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 2,105
My Vanguard in 257 Wby is somewhat problematic as to accuracy. I found one of the rubber damper thingies that fit on the barrel to be advantageous, cutting groups well below 1".
Mobuck is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 08:28 AM   #8
Lloyd Smale
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2005
Posts: 822
my 257 does the same. Just when you think your getting somewhere with loads it opens up. I finaly figured the problem with mine. Its got a rough bore and after about 10 shots groups open up. Clean it after 10 shots and its got way to much copper in it. I sent it back to weatherby and they said they shot it with a cold clean bore and it shot 1 1/2 with factory ammo and that met there standards. When i called them to raise hell they about told me to clean my gun after every 3 shots!! They also said if i wanted them to test it with any more then 3 shots there would be a 100 dollar non refundable range fee!! Needless to say this will be my last weatherby rifle.
Lloyd Smale is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 02:05 PM   #9
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 747
Had real good luck with Wby Vanguard

I can't offer any new advice for the original posting, but I can say that I have had real good luck with Vanguards.

I have a Vanguard .243 with a walnut stock and a Nikon 3-9X40, and if I do my part it will shoot 0.9 inch groups at 100 yards with 100 gr ammo. I have never tried any of the 70 - 90 gr varmint stuff.

My buddy has a vanguard .308 with a synthetic stock, BSA 4-12X. He also gets sub 1" groups at 100 yards, and knocks over steel plates out to 500 yards.
btmj is offline  
Old November 22, 2011, 10:51 PM   #10
tuck2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Posts: 198
Bolt Action Rifle Tune UP

One or More of the following , Clean the barrel, glass bed the action, free float the barrel, adjust the trigger pull, lapp the bolt locking lugs and recrowning the muzzle will improve the accuracy of most rifes that shoot poor groups. Some thing I have also found was the bolt handle contacted the wood and the bolt could not fully close. An other was that the stock was inleted to deep which caused the magazine to act like a bridge between the front and rear action bolts. To get the best accuracy from a rifle reload ammo for it.
tuck2 is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 06:22 AM   #11
Lloyd Smale
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2005
Posts: 822
my 300 wby vanguard will shoot sub moa too. I have to wonder if weatherby just didnt get a batch of bad .25 cal barrels.
Lloyd Smale is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 06:47 AM   #12
sc928porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
Weathery guarentees 1 1/2 MOA. Send it back.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 09:32 AM   #13
Lloyd Smale
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2005
Posts: 822
they guarantee that it will shoot 1 1/2 out of a cold clean barrel with there ammo which not to many of us can afford. that test group is shot with the barrled action in a machine rest. Send it back if you want to waste your money but from my experince and the experience of a few others who posted when i had the problem, weatherby isnt going to do squat and your going to be out the shipping. As to that you cant even send a gun directly to weatherby for service. You have to go through a regional repair facility and in my case it was gander mountain and youll first have to deal with what jokingly call a gunsmith. It will be his decision if it even will be shipped to weatherby and in my case he decided to ship it but it cost my 75 bucks to send it and weatherby didnt do a dammed thing when they got it. the gunsmith at gander even wrote a letter to them saying he tried the gun and got the same results as i did. I really doubt it they even shot the gun. the sent back a photo copy of a group that could have been shot by any gun. My gun definately has a rough bore something you can see with a bore scope and they did nothing. Like i said im done with them and there phony accuracy gurantee. In all my dealings with about every gun manufacture out there ive never had one try to charge me a range fee.
Lloyd Smale is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 02:26 PM   #14
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 3,241
They sent a target with my new Weatherby Vanguard,(which was right at MOA) and it actually shoots better than that. I broke it in with Hornady Custom ammo, and went exactly by the factory recommendation. It shoot's less than 1/2 MOA at one hundred yds, and with handloads it could be tighter.

Bottom line is that there could be some underlying problem with it that doesn't stand right out. Stock screws need kind of a special torque sequence,, maybe there you'll find the problem.
And be sure your shooting form is legit, also because bad form creates oodles of other problems not easy to spot.
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 07:07 PM   #15
Lloyd Smale
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2005
Posts: 822
no hulligan its not me. every time i shoot it i bring along two other rifles to rotate to keep them cool and those guns dont have any problem shooting well. I tried everything with the stock from differnt torque settings to bedding it with forearm pressure and then tried floating it. It did the same no matter what i did. the gun fouls so much that the barrrel is full of copper after 10 shots so much so that you can feel it on a wet patch when you run it through the barrel.
Lloyd Smale is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 07:57 PM   #16
black mamba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2011
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 547
If Weatherby ain't gonna do anything for you, then lap those rough spots out with some JB bore paste. As a last ditch effort, you can have the barrel set back and rechambered. Expensive, but less than a new rifle.
black mamba is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 08:32 PM   #17
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 2,105
LLoyd Smale,
You interested in getting rid of that 257?
Mobuck is offline  
Old November 23, 2011, 09:13 PM   #18
Cowboy_mo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 896
I have a Vanguard in .270 win. Mine came with a 1 moa test target and I have lowered that to .5 moa with my handloads.

My only complaint with my Vanguard was the trigger which I couldn't get the "creep" out of. A new Timney trigger took care of that AND gave me a 3 position safety that I like a whole lot better than the factory 2 position safety.

I would suggest you check Weatherby's site for the authorized service centers. They have one in St. Charles Missouri. See about sending your rifle there if you aren't having success with one closer to you. Yea, I know that shipping is a PIA but hey if it gets fixed to your satisfaction, to me it is worth it.
Cowboy_mo is offline  
Old November 24, 2011, 04:01 AM   #19
Aussie clive
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 12
I was going to send mine back but i was only getting out to the range very rarely and by the time i had tried a few different types of ammo and some handloads the warrantee had run out.My Weatherby has from time to time shot a few good groups of 3 shots into an inch so i guess technically it is capable of good accuracy but then the next group will be 3 times as big.I know its not my incompetance because with my Sako,Tikka and CZ i get very consistant groups.Im not going to bag Weatherby as such but for me it poses the question of are they worth taking the risk buying one when you can get something like a ruger or Tikka for an extra couple of hundred bucks?For all the inconvenience and the lack of confidence i get from using it i really cant see myself ever getting another one.
Aussie clive is offline  
Old November 24, 2011, 04:39 AM   #20
rshanneck2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2008
Posts: 195
25-06

Aussie i have had the same problem but with my Ruger Hawkeye in 25-06. Had another in .270 Win did the same,both barrels heated up way to fast and the 25-06 has the fatter barrel go figure. I recently bought a cheap Stevens 200 in 25-06 that outshoots the Ruger real good,like just over an inch at 100 with Fed power-shoks., go figure. with rifles it is the luck of the draw. Ive always had good luck with Howas also but recently i bought one in .243 Win that i cant seem to get to group well either. Have tried several different types of ammo in it,best is 2in at 100 yds. Im personally done with Rugers though, i have a Vanguard in .270 Win that shoots at roughly 1 in at 100 yds with Fed power-shoks also. I have had good luck with my Vanguards and Howas generally though with factory ammo. I have a friend that has a Vanguard in 30-06 that just loves 150gr Rem Core-lokts. A bad rifle can drive you crazy though? been through that a few times. I am bothered by the response Weatherby seems to be giving people though,generally Ruger does this to me. they say anything under 2.5 MOA is acceptable to them with factory ammo., it can be enough to really **** you off in this day and age. I generally just trade mine in for another until i find that shooter and it has cost me a lot of extra money over the yrs but i do have several rifles that will do that 1.5 in or less at 100 yds with factory ammo and i dont buy the costly ammo either,i stick generally with federal ammo most these days.
rshanneck2002 is offline  
Old November 24, 2011, 07:53 AM   #21
Lloyd Smale
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2005
Posts: 822
rshanneck2002 i too have struggled with ruger and there accuracy claims. I had a 257 roberts ultralite that was a 3 inch gun that they would do nothing about. It was a tang saftey gun that i bought used. They did though rebarrel my new 264 mag that was showing pressure signs at very low levels of loads. Back to the 257. I did at the end of this year firelap the gun and it did show some improvement but still isnt right. thing is i do want a 257 and to sell it and look for another is tough because right now the only ones chambering it are weatherby and if you look hard you can find a rem cdl in 257. My plan at this time is to try lapping it once more next summer and at the same time hope that a deal on a cdl comes along when i can afford it. If so the weatherby will go down the road.
Lloyd Smale is offline  
Old November 25, 2011, 02:34 AM   #22
Aussie clive
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 12
Yeah your right RShanneck it seams like a luck of the draw thing but iv decided to get rid of the Vangaurd and get a Tikka.I went and checked out A CZ,Ruger and the Tikka and apparently CZ dont make a 25/06 and the hawkeye dont have detachable magazine so it will be a pretty easy choice.They where all beautiful guns though and i guess you cant go wrong with any of them.
Aussie clive is offline  
Old November 25, 2011, 04:59 AM   #23
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,719
Aussie Clive: You're doing the right thing in getting rid of a rifle with a bad barrel. Too many people would spend all kinds of time and money to try turning a sow's ear into a silk purse. I hate hearing about bad rifles coming out of companies with formerly good names, but it seems to be getting more prevalent in the past few years.

Everyone is trying to cut costs in manufacturing and big buyers, who want big shipments NOW, but expect to pay less than necessary to guarantee reasonable quality, are contributing to poor quality.
__________________
People are like rifles. Some are tried and true, having great eyes, personality, and fun to be with. Others never seem to hit the mark with you. Still others go off half-cocked. Still, it's nice to know most of them.
Picher is offline  
Old November 25, 2011, 08:26 AM   #24
rshanneck2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2008
Posts: 195
25-06

AH yes CZ 550? Own one in 30-06 and love it to death. Accurate right out of the box with 3/4 in groups with simple remington corelokts 150 gr and you are right i wish they did build one in 25-06 they dont. Heavy Mauser at roughly 8lbs though, excellent stand rifle. Never owned a tikka and have often thought about buying one in 6.5 swede. Oh well one is always one in my future. Just bought a used Sako M995 for $500 in prime condition (.300 WinMag) initial range firing fantastic and they build the Tikkas. Also somewhat on the heavy side but glad about that being a magnum cal, is my first magnum after 57 yrs couldnt resist the price and condition of the rifle. Good impluse buy. Just got the Stevens 200 for $300 and if sure outshoots the Hawkeye but GOOD with simple Fed Powershoks 117 gr. No where as pretty though., Ruger getting traded for my next rifle. Maybe a Tikka?
rshanneck2002 is offline  
Old November 25, 2011, 11:28 PM   #25
dvdcrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2010
Posts: 249
I called weatherby to inquire about a custom stock. Keep in mind I have purchased an H&S precision stock before so know what I should get for the money. I told them I wanted the stock for a hog hunt that was about 6 weeks away. They quoted me the price which was well above an H&S so I though I would ask if they would give me the option to choose length of pull. Nada. Nope that would be extra which I didn't agree with. Also no can do sir we can't get it to you in 6 weeks so you can take it hunting. I said to heck with that. Not good enough service. I got the distinct feeling that I wasn't anyone too special to them.
Now as to the rifle. Sell it and get a Tikka, or Sako. Life is too short to mess around with guns that won't shoot especially if they are from Japan.
dvdcrr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12670 seconds with 7 queries