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Old November 16, 2011, 10:18 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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New BLM Proposed Regulations to Limit Hunting/Shooting on Public Land

US News and World Report has the story:
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...f-public-lands

This is being pushed as an administrative rule, not a bill, so there isn't any vote on it. The policy change would give a great deal of latitude to BLM officials to shut down public lands for hunting and recreational shooting. Cabelas, Ducks Unlimited, and the National Wildlife Foundation (among others) are all protesting the change.

It appears at least one of the justifications they are using to try and shut down shooting is destruction of natural habitat by "range slobs."
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Old November 16, 2011, 10:31 AM   #2
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Interesting...

If they are really trying to be "fair" then no one should be allowed to use public lands - for any purpose.

If shooters interfere with hikers'/dog-walkers' good time, then by the same reasoning does the latter not interfere with that of the former?

Quote:
"It's not so much a safety issue. It's a social conflict issue"
That's for sure, and guess what? It's the "unpopular, un-family friendly" activity that's on the block. *Sigh*
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Old November 16, 2011, 10:33 AM   #3
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Having hunted and done some target shooting on BLM land out west in the past, I can agree that some recreational shooters need to clean up after themselves.
That being said, I see the same types of shooters at the public range too.
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Old November 16, 2011, 10:47 AM   #4
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First they closed 1000 of acres under the "wilderness study" rule, now this? I am so ******.

If this "rule" is issued, can it be challanged in court?
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Old November 16, 2011, 10:49 AM   #5
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Having at one time been a "four-wheeler" in my younger and freer days, I can appreciate that not all "wilderness" use is benign.
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Old November 16, 2011, 11:00 AM   #6
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If people are messing up the environment they should be punished.

I live near a restored wetland with a nature trail.

Dog owners by the thousands use the trail to walk their dogs and they don't clean up after them. When it rains all that dog waste washes down into creeks and into the marsh. It totally screws up the creeks and the marsh itself. No one does any enforcement.

We have immigrants who use the area as a picnic and camping area. It was never meant to be that - there isn't any picnic area anywhere on the trail - that means no garbage receptacles for food waste. Every time I ride the trail I pass by an area where people have made a picnic and what is left behind are empty beverage bottles, left over food, wrappers and assorted garbage.

There is no enforcement.

Then there are the smokers who don't consider flicking used cigarette butts to be litering.

Again no enforement.

To go after any one of these "groups" of people and ignore the others would be wrong, but that's what BLM is doing.

Another federal agency that has been co-opted into the Obama administration's gun control agenda.
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Old November 16, 2011, 11:31 AM   #7
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If anyone can find the actual draft rule, please post it. I am not having any luck. The DOI website is useles. "Secratary Salazar this.... Secratery Salazar that...."
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Old November 16, 2011, 12:01 PM   #8
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No statement from the NRA yet, but they're looking at it, as is the NSSF.
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
If anyone can find the actual draft rule, please post it.
Found this at Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.fws.gov/whhcc/doc/draftBL...ortspolicy.pdf
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:04 PM   #10
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The only place I've ever shot on BLM land is Nevada. Even at the "popular" spots I used to shoot at near Vegas, there were rarely other shooters there, much less other recreational users. At the same time most of these areas were pretty trashed from years of activity, shooter and otherwise. My last trip through the area a favorite spot of mine was closed due to a pipeline being built through it, and the portions away from the pipeline were marked as "wilderness restoration areas"(paraphrasing but something to that effect) It was nice to see the desert shrubbery taking back the areas and no signs of public dumping.

That being said it would be sad if they cannot reach some sort of compromise rather than singling out recreational shooters.

It seems it would be easy enough to post signs/modify the current ones that areas are open to shooting hopefully reducing the concerns of people getting worried by the sound of gunfire. Temporary closures of frequently used areas until they're cleaned up by the individual users and local shooting groups, makes much more sense than outright restrictions. From what I've seen in the places I've lived there always seems to be a group or two willing to shoulder the burden of organizing clean ups at public areas, my feeling is that these numbers would increase if there were more regular temporary closures due to littering, which from what I've seen is a primary concern. This would also hopefully increase the number of individual users who actually give a darn, and clean up after themselves.
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Old November 16, 2011, 01:29 PM   #11
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Well, I used to do my four-wheeling on old strip mines and I did my level best not to cause any environmental damage. That was where I used to do my rifle shooting, too.
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Old November 16, 2011, 02:15 PM   #12
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Many of us in southwestern Idaho shoot on BLM land south of Boise. There seems to be no problem and no clashes between the various users of the land. Shooters coexist with off-road riders, rocket launching clubs, a raptor refuge and grazing cattle. And, as far as I can tell all the other users of that land coexist with each other as well.

It's unfortunate, but there are folks who do misuse the land - it's not uncommon to run across a rusted out refrigerator or other major appliance or a makeshift trash dump full of tires and old car parts. But that's a societal issue, not a shooting issue. There are a few areas that are favorites of shooters because, since it's kind of flat around here, those places that offer natural backstops are pretty valuable pieces of real estate. And, for the most part, they're kept in good shape. I don't see much terrain damage, other than some loss of vegetation from tramping around, and the occasional piece of brass or shotgun hull that didn't get policed up.

That's what happens around here and it would surprise me if things were too terribly different elsewhere.
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Old November 16, 2011, 02:43 PM   #13
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OHV and free range livestock ruin more riparian areas than hunters/hikers/fisherfolks
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Old November 17, 2011, 11:27 AM   #14
BlueTrain
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Where I'm from, which is West Virginia, mining ruins more land than anything anywhere and it's forever. Oh, some places it is somewhat restored and in fact trees will eventually grow back and just as thick as they ever were. The problem is, natural restoration takes longer than people are willing to wait. In the long term, we are all dead.
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Old November 17, 2011, 11:58 AM   #15
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It now looks like they're backtracking on the issue.
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Old November 17, 2011, 02:36 PM   #16
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It is my opinion that whenever the federal government is the "caretaker"/administrator/overseer of something, it is basically lost or sadly lessened (2nd Amendment, 4th Amendment, "public" lands, public retirement supplement, etc.). Just my opinion. I value where i shoot; it is on private property (family-owned).

It would seem that something so important as public access to "public lands" should be, at the very least, guarded by a legislature or even better by the requirement for a public referendum.
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Old November 17, 2011, 02:56 PM   #17
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Thanks for posting that Tom. It's good to see they're actually listening to both sides, hopefully whatever new regulations come down aren't overly prohibitive.
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Old November 17, 2011, 03:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Thanks for posting that Tom. It's good to see they're actually listening to both sides, hopefully whatever new regulations come down aren't overly prohibitive.
Dont kid yourself they dont care one bit what you or I think... 2012s a election year and thats all they care about... After the election this will be back and it wont be reconsidered...
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Old November 17, 2011, 03:26 PM   #19
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From the article that Tom Servo posted:

"The new plan would be to provide shooters with a map or guide on where they can go for target practice nearby."

That's how they do it in my neck of the woods. Also, there's a buffer zone between the various communities on the southern edge of the BLM land and the shooting area. While the buffer zone is fairly large, the open shooting area is freakin' huge. And, like I said earlier, everybody seems to get along quite nicely.
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Old November 17, 2011, 07:05 PM   #20
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As one of the lions of our Republic once said, "The devil is in the details".

The BLM is run for the most part by rabid anti hunters and anti shooters. The upper mid level management dedicated to eliminating shooting and hunting on Federal Property. The Managers in an around Tuscon are prime examples of this position.

On one hand they blame shooters for the trash and damage to the land. On the other hand they show the tons of debris left by the illegals and smugglers who trample the sensitive Sonoran Eco system. They block off 100s of square miles of Public Land to US citizens because the Illegal activity makes it to dangerous to enjoy.

Keep a close watch on these beaurcratic drones.
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Old November 23, 2011, 09:16 PM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
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Not going to happen:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69070.html

Quote:
In a move sure to please gun rights groups, the Obama administration announced Wednesday that it would not be restricting recreational target shooting on public lands.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said he would “take no further action to develop or implement” the draft policy
Didn't say much about the reason for not implementing it. Must be because the tide is turning for gun rights and attacking them for the upcoming political season is seen as a big turkey.
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Old November 23, 2011, 09:29 PM   #22
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Wisely a non-starter. They have been good about playing nice in the front door while trying to come up with back door crazy ideas like F&F.
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Old November 24, 2011, 03:26 AM   #23
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If hotlinking to a public document is not allowed then the mods can delete the hotlink and leave this link instead.

http://www.usnews.com/dbimages/maste...ermemo_big.jpg

The official letter

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