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Old November 10, 2011, 07:40 AM   #1
Don P
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In The Home Carry

This from Massad Ayoob in a recent email message and mods it states share this at the bottom.
It has been discussed here about folks who carry at home and have a handgun on them as being paranoid. maybe this will cause those folks to rethink the point. So here for your reading,
Posted: 09 Nov 2011 04:36 AM PST
A pleasant senior citizen couple living out the remainder of their golden years in a quiet, bucolic place.
A madman.
Bad combination. See the link below, sent to me this morning by a nationally respected police chief.
I am reminded of the two teen thrill killers who conned their way into the home of a beloved couple in Hanover, New Hampshire some years ago. Google “Zantop Murders.” The little fiends butchered that good man and woman like Jack the Ripper.
Not long before the atrocity, the same pair had surrounded a home in nearby Vermont, cut the power lines, and attempted the same thing. This time, though, they were met by a dad who protected his kids with a Glock drawn from his ever-present holster, and fled like the cowards they were.
There is, I submit, a lesson in this.
It’s why I carry a handgun at all times when on my own rural property. When a sudden, unprovoked attack comes, there won’t be time to run to the gun safe.
Condolences to the family and friends of the deceased. May others learn from their sacrifice, that it may not be repeated.
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As some stated in earlier disscusions where these folks living in a place that they should move from. I think not. Bad things can/will happen no matter where we live/work or travel to.
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Last edited by Don P; November 10, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
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Old November 10, 2011, 08:51 AM   #2
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I agree completely. My home is one of the most dangerous places I know of. I stay away as much as possible.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:20 AM   #3
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I don't carry in home. I would given other circumstances. If I was on rural property around here, I would almost certainly carry outside of the home. There is nothingn stupid about carrying in home. I do think that many who do carry in home are probably overestimating their situation, and they could probably live out a thousand lifetimes in their current circumstances without having ever had a home invader.

In reality, I see this particular incident as beyond redemption. Because they were the people that they were, with community responsibilities, they were at times compelled to open their homes. I don't think that the boys were acquainted with the people.

had the old man had a gun, it would not have mattered. An old many attacked by a young and strong predator by surprise probably didn't have a chance. his wife probably had no opportunity to get to a weapon, and would not have been carrying one if her husband had been armed.

The only reasons that this couple died were that there are psychopathic killers who strike at random, and their way of living put them in danger, just like a life of prostitution does. They were vulnerable to those boys, whereas I doubt that very many of the people here would have allowed those boys through their doors. I've allowed strangers into my home, but this article has once again reminded me to be on guard when I do.

I have always assessed my personal risk of a home invasion as moderate. We live in a complex neighborhood. two people simply out to kill may have chosen any of the homes in this neighborhood; specifically the SW corner of the intersection I live on. The old man and woman who live there are exact counterparts of the zantops. independent music teachers, who give lessons out of their home.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:49 AM   #4
Bartholomew Roberts
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Actually, I think carry in the home makes a lot of sense. The two prime aspects of a firearm for self-defense are keeping it out of the hands of unauthorized people/children and having it accesible in a very short time frame. Normally these two requirements are in direct conflict with each other. The one exception to this is a handgun you are wearing.

The handgun is safe from children and other unauthorized people because it is under your positive control at all times. It also provides the fastest practical response time if you need to access it in an emergency.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:06 AM   #5
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I want to add that no matter how safe the statistics say we are, denying the real possibility of catastrophe is a risk.

Nobody has ever invaded my home, but see what I found on my piano one morning. it found it's way into my basement through the chimney of my water heater. I found myself incapable of dealing with this home invader.

My house has been struck by lightning, when it hit, it blew the roof open, and struch the ceiling of my bedroom exactly dead center above my pillow. At least 3 more times, trees on my lot have been struck. We were missed by a couple miles by the EF5 that went through, and just this week, we had a minor quake.

How many one in a billion chances have I already lost in my lifetime? Why does a person assume that a billion to one chance of winning the lottery is different from the billion to one chance of a violent crime occurring? They spend hundreds of dollars in hopes that one will come true, and the other, they wander about their daily lives, oblivious to risk, in blind faith that the other won't happen.

I don't get it.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:09 AM   #6
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I live in a relatively safe place. Rural, 10 miles from town. Home invasions would not be on top of my list of worries.

Now, having said that I carry my 642 in my pocket constantly. I've shot rattlers under my back steps, I've come out of the shop and shot a fox raiding my chicken pen.

There is a pack of dogs that like to hang out at the mail box on the highway a mile away that kept my granddaughter from getting the mail.

Just a week ago I had to put down a horse. I'm not worried about two legged critters, but more then once I've found use for my pocket revolver.

Not worried about my grandkids, but some times they bring their little friends over. Not much of a chance of some kid digging through my pocket to get access to a loaded gun.

I've practiced and shot my little 642 that I've developed the confidence that I don't feel the need of a truck gun anymore.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:13 AM   #7
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In this instance there was no advantage for carrying in or around the home because the killer apparently shot without giving an indication of his intent. We don’t know the details of the killing because there is no witness. We don’t know if the victim ever saw the killer.

Of course, a crossbow is hard to hide.

Essentially the victim was shot by a sniper. A visible sniper but a sniper just the same.

There is no guard against such as that.

I do carry in and around my home. It’s easy for me because I pocket carry an LCR and it’s just part of my normal dress: underwear, over wear, belt, shoes, watch, keys, wallet, pen knife, change, and revolver in pocket.

Am I paranoid? No, but I do know that somewhere, sometime, someone is out to get me. No, there is likely no one in the city who is intent on going out into the boondocks looking for Clay. He’s there but is merely looking for anyone who’s a possible target with money.

I’ve been there a few times and before I started carrying I got out of it by ruse or trickery.

Paranoid? The odds? Very high odds against it, thousands to one. Thousands are never hurt, but if you’re that ONE….
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:56 AM   #8
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You could make an argument that you should wear a Level IIa jacket too... But people usually don't.

We also don't know how the husband was shot. Was he shot from behind? Was the shooter concealed?

As has been said - having a gun doesn't protect you from a sniper. If it did - snipers wouldn't be even 1/10th as effective as they are because 99% of their targets are armed.

However, body armor probably would have protected Ralph Aldrich, aside from a head shot, a jacket with front and back Level IIa panels would have stopped an arrow.

I don't know how the situation unfolded with June Aldrich, but probably a case could be made that having a gun would have helped her.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:58 AM   #9
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That's a horrific story -- a guy wandering around with a crossbow doesn't attract any attention???? -- and the odds are that carrying a bazooka wouldn't have helped the victims.

I live in a quiet little town, I and most of my neighbors are retired, and I don't anticipate being attacked in my house or yard. That said, I pocket carry an NAA Pug all the time at home, and am never more than a few steps from the 1911s in my bedroom and living room.

The odds of being attacked are small, but when you're dead or maimed because you were unarmed, the odds don't matter. We have the right to be armed in this country, and I'm taking advantage of that right.
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Old November 10, 2011, 01:17 PM   #10
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his wife probably had no opportunity to get to a weapon, and would not have been carrying one if her husband had been armed.
Why not?

I know dozens of women who carry regularly. To the best of my knowledge, none of them disarm simply because their husbands are armed.

When I encounter a student who says something like, "Well, I don't need to carry a gun because my husband does," I (gently!) help her see the serious error in that kind of thinking.

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Old November 10, 2011, 01:40 PM   #11
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carrying at home is a good idea but usually i'm wearing a t-shirt, underwear and slippers. i don't like a shoulder holster, i'm thinking maybe a jock strap type holster or ankle holster but i'm not sure. also where would i put an extra mag or two? any help is appreciated.
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Old November 10, 2011, 01:40 PM   #12
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My wife and I regularly carry in the house because carry has been so integrated into our lives. It actually takes a conscious effort to not carry which only occurs when we are preparing to go someplace it would be unlawful to carry.

My wifes work forbids it so she doesnt carry there but way more than not we are in ccw mode.
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Old November 10, 2011, 01:51 PM   #13
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I like to keep a handgun around me at all times; I do not carry in my condo simply because a gun is typically only a couple of seconds away. On my family's Wisconsin Property I think its high time I invest in a Utah CCL so I can CC on our property there.
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:01 PM   #14
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To Patriot, You can carry on private property without a CCL????
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:07 PM   #15
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Having carried for so many years it is a subconsious decision. Pants on, armed, pants off......well, you get the idea. Carrying a handgun has become a normal part of getting dressed and I can't imagine what it would feel like to not feel that familiar weight, I would imagine uncomfortable.......
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:21 PM   #16
Don P
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i'm thinking maybe a jock strap type holster or ankle holster but i'm not sure. also where would i put an extra mag or two? any help is appreciated.
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:38 PM   #17
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A good dog might haved helped. It is one of my early warning devices that works. 6 dogs, not one person can sneak up on me or come on my place without causing a ruckus day or nite.

Not sure if it would have made a difference here, seems pure evil will do evil things.
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:54 PM   #18
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Something to be said for prison inmates self-regulating their population. Don't make a habit of wishing harm on others, but I kinda hope they forget to put this poor excuse for a human being in protective custody and he gets to hang out in general pop. for awhile.

Would a firearm have helped? Possibly, but if shot from afar, I doubt it would have made a difference.
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Old November 10, 2011, 04:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BlueTrain
I agree completely. My home is one of the most dangerous places I know of. I stay away as much as possible.
HAHAHAHA, that made me laugh!!!

I may not go as far as carrying in my own home, but I live by myself so I have a pistol here or 2 laying around that's much easier to get to them some punk trying to kick my door down.
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Old November 10, 2011, 05:32 PM   #20
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Disgusting and horrible story. Similar to one that happened in Nh several years ago when some punks broke into a house and slashed a mother to death and almost killed her young daughter at the same time. It was in an area you would never expect it to happen, and was just some punks looking to satisfy thier fantasy of killing. When Im not at work (in Mass, where Im not legal to carry), I have my Glock or S&W 686 on me at all times, even in the house. When I go to bed, its on the nightstand right next to me, with those glowing green eyes I can see in the dark at a glance. I dont see how anyone can think they know when an attack may come, it could be anywhere, at any time, in any place. No guarantees in life, and like others have stated, thinking you can get to the safe, unlock it, and get into action in time of a surprise is not being rational. People who go looking for trouble are usually not as much trouble as someone who is ready for them. Keep your self defense weapon with you at all times.
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Old November 10, 2011, 05:41 PM   #21
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I know dozens of women who carry regularly. To the best of my knowledge, none of them disarm simply because their husbands are armed.
The only time my wife's not carrying is when its her turn to have a drink (wine or sherry) when we go out to dinner.
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Old November 10, 2011, 05:47 PM   #22
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Thanks to a suggestion from a Fla sheriff's deputy, a few months ago, . . . I obtained a commander sized 1911. I cannot tell you why it seems more comfortable than a full size, . . . but it does.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT it is much more comfortable to carry, . . . more convenient, . . . and I am back to 24/7 carry.

My home borders on a "several thousand" acre wildlife area/hunting area/state park, . . . and at certain times of the year, . . . Bubba and the mall ninja hunters arrive with what sounds like 40 round automatic 8 gauge shotguns.

About 2 miles away, . . . a young girl (early teen) lost her life to a rapist/murderer (never found), . . . and about 10 miles away an elderly lady was knifed in her bed by an attacker who put a ladder up to the second story, . . . cut the screen, . . . and he/she was never found either.

Yep, . . . I carry, . . . more or less 24/7, . . . in fact even when I am on TFL replying to an "In The Home Carry" thread

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Old November 10, 2011, 08:22 PM   #23
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I am an old man that lives alone in a very rural area. I get very few visitors, but when I do, they are usually lost & I have no idea what they are up to. Carrying to me is part of getting dressed. LEO's are 1/2 to more hours away.

I had a knock on the backdoor @ about midnight. He said," Sheriff's Department." I had not called them. I answered the door with a gun behind my back. When I turned to lay it on the table, he said that I scared him to death! He was lost.
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Old November 10, 2011, 08:42 PM   #24
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My wife probably wouldn't carry a gun even if she lived in the middle of the most dangerous place in the country. Even if she did, it wouldn't do much good. When her cell phone rang a while ago, it took 11 rings before she could remember which pocket/orifice she'd stuck it in and dig it out to answer.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:36 PM   #25
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I carry all the time in my home. I used to not do that and just left my handgun in my nightstand on the 3rd floor of my house. I had an experience where I was working late in my home office in the basement and some hooligans started ringing our doorbell at 1:00 in the morning. Now while the incident was minor, I realized that my gun, while just upstairs, might as well have been a mile away. Had the hooligans broke down the door i would have been "caught with my pants down" per say. Ever since then i always carry. When i don't feel like wearing jeans, i use a shoulder holster.

Also, I don't have any kids yet, but I plan on keeping my handgun on my person at all times instead of leaving it in a safe.
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