The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 11, 2011, 08:44 AM   #1
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
How It's Made

Was watching the "How It's Made" show last night and, sure enough, they had a segment of Uberti building a Cattleman.

Lot of hand to product interface.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 10:37 AM   #2
zullo74
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Posts: 374
If it was this one, it leaves a lot to be desired!

zullo74 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 10:58 AM   #3
Hardcase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Sunny Southern Idaho
Posts: 1,909
There were a few little errors, but it wasn't that bad. For a five minute overview geared toward the layman, I thought that it was OK.
__________________
Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae
Hardcase is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 11:49 AM   #4
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
Yup!

It could have been an hour and they could have paid a little closer attention to terminology.

We now have confirmation that what they call case hardening, isn't what I think of as case hardening.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 12:24 PM   #5
Hardcase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Sunny Southern Idaho
Posts: 1,909
True, Doc, that was one of the most glaring errors. That and the installation of the "cartridge ejector", which looked suspiciously like the arbor to me.

I kind of suspect that most of the vignettes on that program have similar errors - there's only so much that you can pack into a general interest show like that. They did one on how integrated circuits are made and I noticed that it hit the high points and missed on some details, just like in the Uberti piece, but got the general idea across pretty well.
__________________
Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae
Hardcase is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 01:03 PM   #6
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,857
The case hardening is just cosmetic, same way with Rugers
Hawg is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 01:15 PM   #7
Model-P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Posts: 727
Cyanide case hardening is not just cosmetic.

Quote:
There were a few little errors, ...
A few? Little?!

1. They start off the show by showcasing a toy gun.
2. Cylinder flutes are "slots for the ammunition"?
3. Bolt stop slots are "notches for rotating the cylinder"?
4. A trigger guard is a "grip and trigger guard"?
5. The stock is a "grip casing"?
6. They check chamber/bore alignment with no bolt installed? (WTH?!)
7. The cylinder pin becomes a "rod for ejecting spent ammunition"?
8. "...screws the spring into the side of the hammer"?
9. A main spring "transfers energy from the trigger to the hammer"?

I guess a bunch of terms got confused in the translation from Italian
Model-P is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 01:51 PM   #8
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
Good video. The narrator was obviously a narrator, not a firearms person. The gaffs are not serious.
Looks like a lot of handwork on the Ubertis. I believe Ruger is far more automated with only handfitting at the final steps.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 01:59 PM   #9
zullo74
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Posts: 374
Model-P

To people like us, those gaffs are serious errors. To the rest of the TV viewing public..they could care less!
zullo74 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 04:02 PM   #10
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,847
How it's made is a fantastic program, all things considered, that gives insight into industrial products. Accuracy of process is excellent, production is good, trange of topics is amazing. It is in general the most informative television program made today.

There is, however, a problem. The guy is just a narrator, and he has no knowledge of what is being done. neither do any other staff. They go to the factory, hear the tour guide, and shoot pictures and take notes.

There are a lot of errors in the final narrative, but the purpose is achieved. people have a little more appreciation for what goes into making things, and maybe, they can appreciate the value of them a little more.

I gotta find this one online.
briandg is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 04:25 PM   #11
CWKahrFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2010
Posts: 1,838
All in all, for a 5-minute general overview for the masses... IMHO, it's decent.
It wasn't made for techies!
__________________
What did Mrs. Bullet say to Mr. Bullet? ... "We're having a BeeBee!"...
IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT!
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."
CWKahrFan is online now  
Old November 11, 2011, 04:57 PM   #12
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
For me....

....It is not so much the accuracy, or thoroughness of the program. I was very surprised since I had just bought a Cattleman (although it is the black powder model) just this week.


Tnx,
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 05:05 PM   #13
zullo74
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Posts: 374
Briandg,

Look for the link in post#2 (I guess you missed it).
zullo74 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 05:37 PM   #14
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
BTW guys

The Youtube link in the post above is of the edition of "How It's Made" to which I am refering.

I have watched other articles on this show and have wondered about accuracy in those too. In this article, I could handle the lack of accuracy. To me they cut too many corners in describing the process.

Many times they seem to work hard to hide the identity of the manufacturer. In others they show the logo at critical points. In this article on the Cattleman I picked up the Uberti logo on the revolver at the beginning of the article and on the technician's coveralls.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Doc Hoy; November 11, 2011 at 05:44 PM.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 06:35 PM   #15
HisSoldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2007
Location: Oregoncoast
Posts: 1,489
Quote:
Cyanide case hardening is not just cosmetic.
Real color case hardening is indeed hardened, but the process they are showing is dunking the frames into a quench at a very low temperature, that would be done at a red temperature for true color case hardening, so my guess is that this is indeed some fake cosmetic CCH.
I could be wrong, have been many times, but I have done a lot of heat treating in my shop, quenching for hardening is done at a much higher range, but maybe there is something I'm missing there. Treatises I've read on CCH state the same thing, the parts are brought to 1400 degrees, then dropped to 1100 and quenched, those parts didn't look like they were 1100 degrees to me.
__________________
I have CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P-238's. Video on installation in Sig;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh2v_-87DRM
HisSoldier is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 08:05 PM   #16
Shotgun693
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 959
We're talking a 'Cattleman'. It's a replica made so that the average Joe who wants a play gun can afford this gun. If you want real case hardening, hand fitting and a better fit then get a new Colt. I have 2 Colt's to mess with when I want to and 2 replica's for more play and rough handling.
The basic 'Cattleman' is, out of the box, a decent gun especially for the price.
Shotgun693 is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 08:43 PM   #17
Model-P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Posts: 727
Quote:
Real color case hardening is indeed hardened, but the process they are showing is dunking the frames into a quench at a very low temperature, that would be done at a red temperature for true color case hardening, so my guess is that this is indeed some fake cosmetic CCH.
The cyanide salt bath is upward of 1700 degrees fahrenheit and it produces a true case. However, it may be that the process shown is something other. Too bad they couldn't elaborate.

Last edited by Model-P; November 11, 2011 at 08:48 PM.
Model-P is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 09:37 PM   #18
orangello
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Posts: 566
That was interesting; thanks for the linkage.
orangello is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 02:31 AM   #19
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,847
Doc, I guarantee you, they make more screw ups on those programs than i ever imagined. Just little errors that happen because of inattention and lack of expertise. Pronunciations are bungled all the time. I can't give an example off the top of my head. you know, if I went into a surfboard shop, I'm pretty sure I'd make a complete fool out of myself when I turned in the report.

Thanks for the links, folks.
briandg is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 06:44 AM   #20
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
I think it is worthwhile to remember....

....That these people are not interested in educating anyone. They just want you to keep watching. Kind of like watching the fireplace.

Same with the news entertainment media. It is difficult to get real, accurate, truthful news any more. Even the format for morning weather has changed so as to keep you watching.

I once did a little checking on the various rating services. It used to be Nielsen only. Now there are others of course. When Nielsen was in its early years, they captured viewing behaviors once per hour. And that data was not reported until the end of a twenty four hour period.

Now viewing behaviors are captured every 15 seconds and the data are available instantly. So the producers know how the viewing audience is reacting to something Joe Scarborough said 15 to 30 seconds ago. And of course, the most important thing to Joe and more importantly to his advertisers, is that he say something now, that will keep folks watching for another 15 seconds.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 04:30 PM   #21
HisSoldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2007
Location: Oregoncoast
Posts: 1,489
Quote:
The cyanide salt bath is upward of 1700 degrees fahrenheit and it produces a true case. However, it may be that the process shown is something other. Too bad they couldn't elaborate.
It is different, although before seeing a youtube thing about CCH I'd have thought the temperatures you mentioned are closer than what I posted (1400-then down to 1100, then quench)
They pack the parts in special pots with bone and leather char, then bring that up to temperature and drop the contents into water with an air outlet at the bottom so it's bubbling. I've read that really fine case hardening brings the surface to a very high hardness while internally there is some conventional hardening for added strength, but mostly case hardening is done to 8620 and it is close to mild steel, 20 points carbon.

BTW, grip screws in original 1911's were case hardened to 60 RC, I tried to file one once, it ruined the file. Since reading the Kuhnhausen books I see that no one makes a 1911 the way they used to, and no, they are not better as far as heat treating goes IMO.
__________________
I have CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P-238's. Video on installation in Sig;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh2v_-87DRM
HisSoldier is offline  
Old November 14, 2011, 12:59 PM   #22
ZVP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2009
Posts: 914
Well at least the show tried to inform the general public on what a machiene a revolver actually is and that it takes a lot of steps to build one from raw stock!
I think it was good in that respect and I appreciate the thought behind the production (it wasn't anti-gun!!!).
I appreciate any TV sho that promotes the shooting sports!
ZVP
ZVP is offline  
Old November 14, 2011, 02:13 PM   #23
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,847
It's canadian production, IIRC. They have put a lot of things on there that I recognized at the time as being something you would NEVER see on american televsion.
briandg is offline  
Old November 14, 2011, 02:23 PM   #24
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 4,629
Yes to both of you

Z

It is gratifying to see the article done in a positive approach.

Brian,

Agree. Lot of the stuff is clearly not of U.S. manufacture.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old November 14, 2011, 05:12 PM   #25
rr2241tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2007
Location: The Great State of Taxes
Posts: 260
I enjoy How It's Made but there are ALWAYS translation errors since it is written in French by copywriters who have a very abreviated summary of the process to work from. I'm sure translation error from Italian to French to English must be cumulative, especially since at times it seems it is more transliteration than tranlation. But really, how else would you know how pre-cooked bacon is made?
__________________
rr2241tx
rr2241tx is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13219 seconds with 9 queries