The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 15, 2011, 12:52 AM   #1
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
best caliber for training

I currently own and shoot a sig 226 in .40 S&W and started wondering about the caliber kits made for this model. I reload .40 at just over 2.00 per box so money isnt really much concern. However, I am having trouble becoming proficient after about 1000 rounds or so. Think maybe i should get a .22 rimfire kit to work on mechanics with this pistol? Im pretty sure im jerking a lot because im all over the place. Whats the best way to remove this? thanks
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 04:25 AM   #2
oldandslow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2007
Posts: 559
STDI, 11/15/11

You have a nice pistol in the Sig 226. Rather than spend the money for another pistol in .22 it may be better to get some professional instruction. If your techniques are faulty then no amount of practice will make you better. One or two day classes can usually be had for much less than the price of a new pistol. Classes are usually offered all over the US by various organizations and individuals. Good luck and stick with it.

best wishes- oldandslow
oldandslow is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 07:01 AM   #3
federali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2011
Location: Nassau County NY
Posts: 378
Agree with Oldandslow

Besides training, as you're a reloader, another option is to buy a lighter return spring for your handgun, From Wolfe Springs, then shoot reduced loads. The .40 S&W is a bit on the snappy side and can prolong the time it takes to become proficient with it.

If you know any WWII or Korean War vets, they'll tell you just how innaccurate the .45 auto was. The truth is, the gun was more accurate than most of us can shoot. The substantial recoil is what prevented GIs from becoming proficient with it in the short time allotted to training.
__________________
Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
federali is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 08:39 AM   #4
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
I wasn't referring to a new pistol in .22 just the .22 kit 200 bucs I believe.


Tapatalk ya
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 10:25 AM   #5
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,527
If I feel a bit shaky, some practice with my Kadet kit helps calm my nerves enough so I don't jerk the trigger with the 9 or 45. Makes you focus just on the trigger finger instead of the whole hand and arm.

Any way you can download those 40's a bit? I use the minimum with my 45 LRN and low-mid on the 9's.
chris in va is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 10:35 AM   #6
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
I think its important to start out with .22 so a shooter doesn't develop bad habits like flinching and trigger jerk. But once a shooter has developed those habits just going to .22 isn't going to erase them.

A shooter then needs to do a series of exercises designed spedifically to help unlearn those bad habits. And be constantly mindful of good technique everytime they shoot until good habits become ingrained.

It's more than just picking up a .22
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 11:07 AM   #7
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0untZer0 View Post
I think its important to start out with .22 so a shooter doesn't develop bad habits like flinching and trigger jerk. But once a shooter has developed those habits just going to .22 isn't going to erase them.

A shooter then needs to do a series of exercises designed spedifically to help unlearn those bad habits. And be constantly mindful of good technique everytime they shoot until good habits become ingrained.

It's more than just picking up a .22
What would you say the series of exercises would consist of?


Tapatalk ya
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 11:46 AM   #8
Slopemeno
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2007
Posts: 2,344
A quality .177 pellet pistol would be my choice.

A Daisy 717 is recoilless, needs next to no maintenance, and is surprisingly accurate considering the price. Decent pellets are cheaper than .22 LR ammo, and you can shoot in your garage or living room. That means more time and dollars to build skill, not driving to the range.
Slopemeno is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 12:05 PM   #9
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
[QUOTE=federali;4821815]Besides training, as you're a reloader, another option is to buy a lighter return spring for your handgun, From Wolfe Springs, then shoot reduced loads. The .40 S&W is a bit on the snappy side and can prolong the time it takes to become proficient with it.

I started looking around at recoil springs, I'm already shooting really light loads and have a jam on occassion which I'm assuming is due to the spring, what springs are ideal? I was planning on getting two or three different ones but which range is ideal for light target loads?


Tapatalk ya
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 12:08 PM   #10
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
357 nuff said
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 12:24 PM   #11
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,686
The best thing to do is spend a little on some intro handgun classes. Where in south Texas as there are some excellent classes around here?

BTW, 9mm is the easiest semi to shoot with and train with, IMHO.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 12:49 PM   #12
federali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2011
Location: Nassau County NY
Posts: 378
South Texas Dead I---

In the Wolfe spring website or catalog, I believe they tell you what the factory weight spring is for a specific handgun. Let's say the spring for your gun is listed at 19 pounds. Then, it's a matter of buying a spring of perhaps 17 pounds and see how they function with your loads. If the shells dribble out, the spring is too heavy, if they're thrown into next county, the spring is too light. It's also a good idea to mark your springs so you don't get them confused or mixed up.
__________________
Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
federali is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 02:00 PM   #13
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
Standard for mine is 20lbs so I figured 15 16 and 17?


Tapatalk ya
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 03:21 PM   #14
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
I thought about a caliber kit for my Glock.

I think it's really important to have an accurate conversion kit. If I get a conversion kit for my Glock and I'm doing everything right but the kit is putting holes all over the paper than I'm not getting good feedback for proper technique.

I've heard different things about the Advantage Arms kit as far as accuracy.

I guess there is some training that I could do with a mediocre kit, and save a little money but it seems like I'd either be better off doing it with a quality .22 pistol or just practicing in 9mm.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old November 15, 2011, 09:42 PM   #15
federali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2011
Location: Nassau County NY
Posts: 378
Advantage arms

I have the .22 Advantage Arms conversion kit for my G19. It works quite well provided you use the ammo they recommend. And yes, it ain't no S&W Model 41 regarding accuracy but it does provide relatively inexpensive target practice with your carry gun, if that's what you do with it.
__________________
Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
federali is offline  
Old November 16, 2011, 09:10 AM   #16
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
Quote:
What would you say the series of exercises would consist of?


Tapatalk ya
Snap Caps, dry fire, dry fire some more and then do some more dry fire.

Dry Fire, teach yourself to use both eyes


If you hold your arm straight out in front of you and hold your thumb up can you see the striations on your thumbnail clearly using both eyes, in other words is it in focus? You are a bifocal creature, that is you have an eye on either side of your face and they will turn in to focus on that sight about 30" in front of your nose.

If you can do that then both eyes should be working and on to the hard part. You can see well enough to shoot like a marksman.

Next step is get snap caps for the caliber of your choice and insert it into the gun.

Get a plain sheet of typing or copy paper and in the very center of the paper use a fine point pen with black ink and make a little cross with 2.5 cm horizontal and vertical lines. No larger. Fasten that paper on a horizontal surface at shoulder height in a location with good light.

Pick up your chosen handgun with the off hand and place it in your shooting hand and get a good grip. Grip it firmly like you would a handshake, not to loose, not so tight that you shake. Extend your arm so the muzzle of your gun is no more than a cm away from the paper. Focus on that front sight with both eyes. You will see that the vertical line goes straight up the middle of the sight and the horizontal line sits squarely on the top of your front sight. Your front sight should now be centered in the notch of your rear sight and level.

Now with the gun cocked, your focus entirely on the front sight you play a little mind game. Imagine the sight is one solid piece attached to the trigger. When you pull the trigger back you are trying to pull the front sight back through the center of your rear sight. If you pull, yank, anticipate, jerk, grab anything but a perfect trigger pull those lines will move away from the front sight like a seismometer detecting an earthquake.

The objective of this exercise is to get 10 perfect shots and what you will discover is that when your focus is on the sight/trigger you will have no idea when the gun goes off. That will be your good shot.

Now the fun begins, switch the gun to your left hand and start over again. You will be sweating and hurting and mad at me but I will guarantee you that the top shooters do this and this is why they are top shooters.

Now the easy part, get your two handed grip and take 10 more shots but this part is pretty redundant. The whole point of the exercise is to get your focus on the front sight while your trigger finger squeezes the trigger without disturbing your sight alignment no matter which hand or hands you are using. If you can do that you can do it standing on one leg leaning over a table shooting through a door at an oblique angle or hanging by your knees from a trapeze bar. You will not know what position you will be in when you have to shoot but sight picture and consistent trigger pull will increase your chances of hitting what you want shot. Using both eyes will aid in your sight picture.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old November 16, 2011, 09:33 PM   #17
south.texas.dead.I
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2011
Posts: 263
I just did this with my iPhone in my hand instead of the gun and at the wall in general and when I raised it I notices that I was looking at the phone and not the wall, when I moved to the wall everything seemed to just pop into place and felt much better I will definitly do this exercise when I get the chance I appreciate your time!


Tapatalk ya
south.texas.dead.I is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09664 seconds with 7 queries