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Old November 15, 2011, 01:22 PM   #51
chadio
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In before the lock - often, controversial topics such as this are shut down by forum administrators. Locked threads cannot be replied to.

AND - give the guy some dignity, lose the moron and idiot terms... he was just a guy trying to protect what was important to him.... his family and himself...... In his method fo doing so, it just so happens that he made a mistake.
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:26 PM   #52
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I support the right to keep and bear arms. I do it myself. But - I assure you, no one really needs a firearm on your person loaded - one - in - the - chamber

ALL OF THE TIME
A couple questions:

1) If you NEED a gun where you're going, why go? If I actually thought I'd need a gun in the course of my day, I'd change my schedule or call the cops. At the very least I'd have a rifle on my person. Handguns are for the unforeseen emergencies.

2) If you're unsafe when you carry a gun unnecessarily (in your viewpoint), then what magic force is protecting you from harm when you think it is needed? Unsafe is unsafe, period. Responsible is responsible whether you went out for a quart of milk at the corner store or you went into some more nefarious neighborhood. I think it's more likely that one who carries rarely is more likely to be unsafe due to lack of familiarity and the reduced perceived use leading to junky gear (if you wear a gun every day, you've probably invested in a good belt or holster than if you just toss it in a pocket to go).

Safety is not only a choice but also a habit. We must CHOOSE we will carry safely, and then we must ingrain that choice by turning safe actions into habits.
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:31 PM   #53
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Pocket Carry does not equal no holster. There are pocket carry holsters.
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:34 PM   #54
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see my first post

title changed//it might have to wait for approval(was gonna do something different but opted on something similar-plse feel free to do as needed)
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:41 PM   #55
chadio
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technosavant-

Quote:
1) If you NEED a gun where you're going, why go?
Sometimes I have to visit a bad part of town to fill out documents for legal isssues or child care administrative documentation.

Quote:
1) ....Handguns are for the unforeseen emergencies.
Handguns aren't the only way to protect yourself... avoidance, pepper spray, self-defensive fighting techniques and knives are also considered self - defense.

Quote:
2) If you're unsafe when you carry a gun unnecessarily (in your viewpoint), then what magic force is protecting you from harm when you think it is needed?
Common sense. It is a magic force to those who have it. "I need a gun all the time everywhere" is pure paranoia.
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:46 PM   #56
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BTW - I never said that carrying a gun safely and legally is going to offer an unsafe situation.
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Old November 15, 2011, 01:47 PM   #57
therealdeal
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I would like to say Tom's post had me crackin up+i developed a good picture of that conversation
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:23 PM   #58
Tom Servo
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Quote:
he was just a guy trying to protect what was important to him
Well, he was going about it the wrong way, and he could have caused serious harm to someone he didn't intend to.

Quote:
"I need a gun all the time everywhere" is pure paranoia.
Until you're the victim of an attempted carjacking in the well-lit parking lot of an upscale establishment in a nice part of town on a busy evening. Then it's not so paranoid.

Quote:
I would like to say Tom's post had me crackin up
Sadly, that was not the intent. I really do have that conversation. That same guy is the one who buys a gun for his wife, who doesn't want to carry one in the first place, won't practice, and won't maintain the weapon. Guess who's going to show her how to use it? Him.

The Lori Klein situation didn't occur in a vacuum. The late middle-age country club crowd frightens me much more than the Call of Duty mall ninja folks.
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:28 PM   #59
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I never said that carrying a gun safely and legally is going to offer an unsafe situation.
That's exactly what you implied. In regards to a man who carried a firearm to the grocery store, your statement had the strong implication that had he left it at home in favor of some non-firearm based defensive method, he'd still be alive. While correct in this exact instance, that statement also implied we'd all be safer if we only carried guns occasionally... such as when YOU think we "NEED" them (in blatant disregard of known incidents where otherwise safe places became murder scenes). Feel free to call it paranoia all you want, the vast majority of us here consider it prudence. I am not aware of any assailant who makes appointments or waits for a person to enter a bad neighborhood before striking. Your emotional thinking doesn't hold together when held to the light of logical reason and events we see in reality.

What killed this man was not carrying a gun to the grocery store. What killed him was his own unsafe practice, and those practices are not restricted to times when you think firearm carry is unnecessary. In fact, I would submit that one who only carries occasionally is MORE likely to be unsafe than someone who does so with regularity.

Whenever you carry, do so safely. Know your gun, know the advantages and disadvantages of your specific carry method and associated gear. Don't shortcut, you'll wish you hadn't. There's several folks out there with scars on their legs from substandard (or no) carry rigs, and I have a strong suspicion that a quality belt and holster would have cost far less than their medical co-pays.
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:30 PM   #60
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...Well, he was going about it the wrong way, and he could have caused serious harm to someone he didn't intend to....
No argument here.
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:37 PM   #61
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...That's exactly what you implied....
That is the problem with communication, "... you implied" may speak loudly in your head but what I was trying to say didn't get across. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you. I truly feel that we are on the same page but the lingo ain't bingo.
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:49 PM   #62
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....I am not aware of any assailant who makes appointments or waits for a person to enter a bad neighborhood before striking. Your emotional thinking doesn't hold together when held to the light of logical reason and events we see in reality.

What killed this man was not carrying a gun to the grocery store. What killed him was his own unsafe practice, ...
No argument. Except the emotional thinking part - if you breathe you have emotion..... even thought the FBI and police claim no emotion they are not fooling anyone - we cannot deny emotion.

Quote:
...and those practices are not restricted to times when you think firearm carry is unnecessary. ....ever you carry, do so safely. Know your gun, know the advantages and disadvantages of your specific carry method and associated gear. Don't shortcut,
Agreed.

Quote:
...fact, I would submit that one who only carries occasionally is MORE likely to be unsafe than someone who does so with regularity....

Hold on there cowboy, I don't make coffee every day but it still is coffee.
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Old November 15, 2011, 02:59 PM   #63
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadio
I support the right to keep and bear arms. I do it myself. But - I assure you, no one really needs a firearm on your person loaded - one - in - the - chamber
ALL OF THE TIME
Well, I'm glad you at least support my right to make that decision for myself, rather than decide it for me. You just reserve the right to judge me if I don't make the same decision you would then?

And for what it is worth, I agree with you. I don't need a pistol with one in the chamber on my person ALL OF THE TIME. In fact, I don't even need it MOST OF THE TIME. The problem is, I don't actually know when the ONE TIME I NEED IT will be, so the only way to be sure of having it during the ONE TIME I NEED IT is to carry it ALL OF THE TIME.

Quote:
Yes, my statement has something to do with the subject here. A guy died in case you missed that.
And as I stated earlier, hundreds of thousands of people carry guns into grocery stores every day without killing themselves. Quite clearly, carrying a gun to the grocery store, or anywhere else, isn't the problem here. It does seem apparent that carrying a safe-action pistol with no safeties and a short, light trigger pull in your pocket with no holster may be an issue though...

And what is with the "A guy died in case you missed that" comment? What exactly did that add to the discussion? Do you actually believe that I missed that? And if you don't believe that I somehoew managed to miss that detail, then exactly what are you trying to imply?
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Old November 15, 2011, 03:37 PM   #64
chadio
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...And what is with the "A guy died in case you missed that" comment? What exactly did that add to the discussion? Do you actually believe that I missed that? And if you don't believe that I somehoew managed to miss that detail, then exactly what are you trying to imply?...
The comment wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the topic. I should have spelled this out but I didn't make this obvious and I apologize. I can understand why you may take this personal but the bottom line is we all draw from our experience and education. Regardless, we are starting to juggle geese with this conversation.


Quote:
... I'm sorry; but that doesn't have a damn thing to do with the problem. ...
That is a rather pointed comment, in my opinion.

But, we have discussed a topic that we have strong opinions about, and that's ok - if we all had the same opinion about everything, then...

conversation, forums, life in general would be boring.

Bartholomew - I have a funny feeling that If we met face to face, shared a cup of coffee, or a glass of ale - we would become friends.

Best of luck to every American and...

to every firearm owner

Be safe, you must protect the ones you love and you cannot protect anyone if you are dead.
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Old November 15, 2011, 03:51 PM   #65
Glenn E. Meyer
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Carry without a safe method is dangerous.

Since I take it some posters are not trained mental health professionals, I really don't care about your view of paranoia or whether you want to have coffee with each other.

The idea of predicting that violence only occurs in bad neighborhoods is stupid and not supported by the facts.

That's all that needs to be said.

Closed.
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