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Old November 14, 2011, 04:24 PM   #1
therealdeal
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We lost one to AD/ND

We just lost one of our own to a AD/ND. Forgive me for the title, but I wanted TFL Members to see this article. Also, some might say: "I would never do that." The fact of the matter remains that accidents happen, and a middle-aged man just died while leaving his children without a father and his wife as a widow.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-father...ory?hpt=us_bn5

Hopefully this article can lead to some discussion, so this tragedy isn't repeated. I am sure the man was in shock at what happened before his passing. I am not sure if it was the holster or not, but it does seem the man carried one in the chamber. The man was legal to carry in his vehicle even if he wasn't CCW, but I am guessing he was a CCW holder.
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Last edited by therealdeal; November 15, 2011 at 01:30 PM. Reason: changed title due to confusion
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Old November 14, 2011, 04:30 PM   #2
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Took one look at the idiots posting responses to the article and closed the page in disgust.

Quote:
phillydrifter at 3:50 PM November 14, 2011 I'm glad this mouth-breather killed himself, he can stop eating my food, breathing my air.

You don't need to take any 'required' safety courses when you buy a gun, you just have to have the common sense not to carry a loaded weapon on your hip without enabling the safety.

For added measure, you can remove the clip and carry it separate. Should a situation arise, you can slam the clip into the gun and chamber a round in less than a second.
1) Glocks don't have a manual safety.
2) It's called a magazine, not a "clip".

What a tard.
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Old November 14, 2011, 04:34 PM   #3
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Thanx Dino. That is truly upsetting! I hadn't read the comments yet, but just checked them out. I notice on yahoo news stories it always seems to be some puffy cellar commando in his parent's cellar who seems to know everything Not always, but that comment you quoted was extremely distasteful. I am sorry this man lost his life from a 'mistake'. I think it is safe to call it that.
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Old November 14, 2011, 04:39 PM   #4
hermannr
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The Sheriff is correct...always use a holster that guards that trigger! Especially with a Glock....Oh, what a deal. I pray his wife and kids can handle this ok.
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Old November 14, 2011, 04:41 PM   #5
chris in va
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Quote:
The family friend says it likely was loose in his pocket.
Oh wow. I couldn't imagine carrying it that way.
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Old November 14, 2011, 05:02 PM   #6
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I remember pics from a thread (think it was here, not sure) where some dude perforated his leg from a pistol that had started to slide out of its holster. Yes, again, it was a Glock (not Glock bashing, but this will be relevant in a minute). But it was holstered, just in a cheap one.

A couple things I think we need to keep in mind:
1) Quality holsters. They're worth it. Carrying a gun loose can be asking for trouble, and cheap holsters aren't much better. Get a holster that will hold the gun securely, preventing movement, and also won't bunch or fold (stiff leather is your friend if you don't like plastic). The gun should not shift out of place unless you are pulling on it.

1a) Know how your holster works and practice with it. Unloaded. There's also incidents of this happening with Blackhawk SERPA holsters... pushing the retention button releases the gun (it does hold it securely), but the trigger finger is still pushing when the gun clears the holster, and it gets inside the trigger guard and BLAM. While the gun is still pointed at your leg, even. Which brings us to...

2) Know your gun, know how it operates, and understand what the lack of an external safety means. If that trigger is pulled on a Glock/S&W M&P/XD type of action, that thing is going to fire. Sure, it can also happen on a DA revolver, but we aren't usually seeing this happen with those due to the length and weight of the trigger pull. We see this happen with the semiautos with lighter pulls and no thumb safety. I'm not saying these designs are unsafe, I'm saying we need to recognize the implications of that trigger actuated safety. That is, pulling the trigger will mean BANG. If it's partially unholstered when you get BANG, you also get OUCH. In extreme cases, you get the article. Which brings us back to having a good holster that won't let it go.

My condolences to the man's family, but this happened because he either used no holster or he used a low quality one. A $60-80 holster for that $500 gun, and it was just another trip to get milk.
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Old November 14, 2011, 05:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Oh wow. I couldn't imagine carrying it that way.
You'd be shocked to know how many people do carry that way.
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Old November 14, 2011, 05:13 PM   #8
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Yeah, I am always shocked at all the people who insist on "pocket carry" for their sidearms. As if holsters were just some wacky idea that serve no purpose that they can imagine. I'm very sorry to hear this. Better training probably could have saved him.
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Old November 14, 2011, 05:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Took one look at the idiots posting responses to the article and closed the page in disgust.
Thankfully only 1 commenter seems to be true inconsiderate idiot, some just seem unclear on Glock safety features - many making assumptions which have not been confirmed by law enforcement.

Some however make some good points correcting said moron.

I don't always use a holster, but when I do not, I carry an uncocked single action.

Gotta say, i don't think i would try to pocket carry a Glock.

Very unfortunate for both this man and his family, but accidents happen, even with the most careful of us. That's why they call them accidents.

Edit: I have seen people pocket carry their larger pistols, however, those that do usually will "repurpose" an IWB to do this
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Old November 14, 2011, 05:34 PM   #10
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when the man tried to unbuckle his seat belt, he hit the trigger of his .40 caliber glock and shot himself in the hip.
I sure feel for his family. Sounds like this may have been avoided.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:01 PM   #11
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This reminds me of a guy in the Phoenix area who shot himself in the penis with his girlfriend's pink TCP a couple months ago. Lucky for that guy he lived. I guess depending on how you see it. Not sure if I would want to live through shooting myself in the penis.
Anyway he too was either pocket carrying with no holster or took a page out of Plaxico's training book and carried it Mexican (can't remember which one right now).
Bottom line guys use a holster. They aren't just for looks. I generally pocket carry my TCP, but I use a holster.

My prayers go out to his widowed wife and fatherless children. Tough times right now, don't need it made worse by losing your spouse/parent.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
We just lost one of our own to a AD/ND
What do you mean, "one of our own"? Was he a TFL member?

Quote:
Yeah, I am always shocked at all the people who insist on "pocket carry" for their sidearms. As if holsters were just some wacky idea that serve no purpose that they can imagine. I'm very sorry to hear this. Better training probably could have saved him.
Pocket carry is not mutually exclusive from holster carry. I am not sure why you would have the idea that it was. Heck, my mom regularly pocket carries her Glock 26 in a pocket holster.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:28 PM   #13
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Pocket carry is not mutually exclusive from holster carry. I am not sure why you would have the idea that it was. Heck, my mom regularly pocket carries her Glock 26 in a pocket holster.
Not smart IMHO. There are some guns I would and do pocket carry a Glock is not one of them.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:35 PM   #14
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im not an expert or trained and this is why i carry a DA pistol, i have carried my glock in the past but i just have an uneasy feeling about carrying with one in the tube. i think that for the average gun enthusiast they have no business carrying a glock or single action weapon, under stress the last thing i want is a 4# SA.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:44 PM   #15
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A lot of things wrong...

Even if you're going to pocket carry you should have a holster.

But if the weapon had a grip safety like the XD, it wouldn't have discharged.

I like my 17L and G34, but I don't think I'd carry them. I'll stick with my HK P7M8...
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh wow. I couldn't imagine carrying it that way.

You'd be shocked to know how many people do carry that way.
I do, but its a 642 not a glock.

I tried everything possible (unloaded of course) and can't find a way to get it to accidently go off.

But its not a glock.
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Old November 14, 2011, 07:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
But if the weapon had a grip safety like the XD, it wouldn't have discharged.
I suppose if you believe in a perfect world, in might not. Knowing how things go in the real world, relying on "any" safety is just an accident waiting to happen. Grip safeties are not some magical thing. Ive had a couple of 1911's that came with non functioning grip safeties, right out of the box, and know they are not something to rely on, and always should be checked when the gun is new to you, and on a regular basis from there on out.

Quote:
I tried everything possible (unloaded of course) and can't find a way to get it to accidently go off.
Other than pocket carry, which I rarely do with anything (its just not practical or comfortable for me), Ive done the same with a number of Glocks, and with the same results. That includes lots of time without a holster too. They arent as scary as many will have you believe.

Glocks, or any of them for that matter, really are not the issue here, its how they are handled, or in this case, mishandled. Pick your favorite gun, and put the right, unfortunate chain of events into motion, and Ill bet you can get pretty much anything to go off without to much trouble.
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Old November 14, 2011, 08:17 PM   #18
therealdeal
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What do you mean, "one of our own"? Was he a TFL member?
No about member but I guess it is possible. I would like to think that he was a fellow CCWer pro 2nd amendment. It just comes off that we to me, but it is speculation at this point.

Also, until we get more info, it seems to be specualtion as to the holster, pocket, AD/ND details.
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Old November 14, 2011, 08:32 PM   #19
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Pocket carry or not, or with/without holster, its sad to hear that he did not practice safe firearm handling.

There's nothing wrong with pocket carry even without a holster as long as you use common sense. I've pocket carried more than one slim single-stack pistol without any issues. its how you handle it that matters. I hope the victim's family will be ok..
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Old November 14, 2011, 08:57 PM   #20
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I'm a firm believer in carrying my 1911's cocked and locked in a quality holster. However, I carry my Glock 26 in a quality holster with an empty chamber. Worse case scenario, use it as a club. At least no chance of shooting myself. A good argument can be made either way.

My heart goes out to him and his loved ones.
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Old November 14, 2011, 10:16 PM   #21
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Not smart IMHO. There are some guns I would and do pocket carry a Glock is not one of them.
Well some TFL members would certainly disagree with you along with the makers of quality holsters. If you don't think a Glock is safe enough to carry in a pocket holster, then it isn't safe enough to carry in a regular holster either.
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Old November 14, 2011, 10:55 PM   #22
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To each their own. I stated that do not think it is a good idea to pocket carry a Glock I did not expect everyone to agree with me. The issue with pocket carry is that there are a lot of movements near and in pockets that do not occur near a belt holster. I have never reached into my holster to get my keys or cell phone.

If I pocket carry I do so in a pocket holster with guns with heavy DA triggers. A heavy DA trigger like the one on a S&W 642 more than likely would have prevent this death. Again IMHO.
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Old November 14, 2011, 11:00 PM   #23
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I have never reached into my holster to get my keys or cell phone.
I'd not recommend keeping keys or a phone in the same pocket as the gun. The only time I put anything in a pocket alongside a gun is when I use a small coin purse to break up the outline of a Beretta Tomcat, and that stays OUTSIDE the holster (holster is a DeSantis Nemesis, which is very grippy; the rubber coin purse doesn't shift around).
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Old November 14, 2011, 11:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
What do you mean, "one of our own"? Was he a TFL member

No about member but I guess it is possible. I would like to think that he was a fellow CCWer pro 2nd amendment. It just comes off that we to me, but it is speculation at this point.
Then change the damn thread title. I do not appreciate seeing such a post, opening it with the dread that we had lost a member, and then finding out the 'our own' part was sensationalism to get people to open it. Else-wise, why the

Quote:
Forgive me for the title, but I wanted TFL Members to see this article.
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Old November 14, 2011, 11:06 PM   #25
WVsig
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I have never reached into my holster to get my keys or cell phone.
I'd not recommend keeping keys or a phone in the same pocket as the gun. The only time I put anything in a pocket alongside a gun is when I use a small coin purse to break up the outline of a Beretta Tomcat, and that stays OUTSIDE the holster (holster is a DeSantis Nemesis, which is very grippy; the rubber coin purse doesn't shift around).
I agree but people still do it. Also people reach to their pocket out of habit or muscle memory.

I have nothing but the pocket gun in the pocket when I carry that way.

I used to live in Fredericksburg at know that shopping center well. The other part of the article I did not understand is why it appears he waited to call 911 after shooting himself. I certainly would not have waited until my wife returned to the car to call for help if I had just shot myself.
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