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Old November 10, 2011, 08:12 PM   #1
stevefsh
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.410 semi-auto pistol ?

With all this talk lately about a 410 semi-auto pistol
on several popular forums. I'm wondering if this is the same pistol that was
demonstrated on the A&E show "American Guns" ? Did anyone else catch that?
I have tried many search engines and have yet to find out who actually
produces this beast of a handgun !
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Old November 10, 2011, 08:33 PM   #2
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I would love one for pigeon control.....
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:32 PM   #3
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I have to ask - WHY?
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:35 PM   #4
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Isn't a 410 auto a short-barreled semi-auto shotgun?
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:46 PM   #5
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Wow now we know what is a less good idea than the taurus judge.

Not to mention soon to be more discussed and debated should someone actually make one...
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:01 PM   #6
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Because of the design of a revolver you can load a Governor or Judge with .45 rounds or 410 shells.

That doesn't work with a semi-auto pistol right?

That's why I'm saying if it cycles 410 shot shells - it's a short barreled semi-auto shotgun.
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:02 PM   #7
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If they came in 12ga they'd be awsome.

So awsome that they were outlawed.
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:05 PM   #8
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It would be more worthless than a Judge..... who would of thought that possible
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:12 PM   #9
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Well it would not be my cup of tea but I am willing to bet one could make such a weapon so that it would at a minimum fire 45 colt well enough to make the the argument to the ATF that it was a 45 / 410. If they bought it would be another thing.

I know dang well that a 10mm will fire a 40 S-W sometimes, cycle and feed is another thing but could likely be overcome to some degree.

Of course I am thinking the dam thing would have to have a grip bigger than a desert eagle so only the biggest hands need apply!
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:23 PM   #10
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I don't know the specific's of what makes what what. But I believe the thing that stops the Judge from being a short barreled shotgun is it's rifle barrel, not it's ability to fire .45 Colt ammo. I believe that a .410 auto-loading pistol would fall into the same category as long as it uses a rifled barrel.

However, I can't see such a device being practical at all. With most .410 shotshells being 2.5", that's going to create a gun with one gigantic grip. I don't even want to think about trying to make a magazine that can reliably feed a 2.5" rimmed shotshell.
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Old November 10, 2011, 11:54 PM   #11
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The magazine could not be in the grip.
Under .50 cal and rifled is legal-period.
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:22 AM   #12
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I got my dad a public defender for his bday. Which is a polymer judge. The felt recoil is less then the steel versions and its a very impressive tool when used with ammo made for the judge. Its been so popular that S&W is making a version of it that will also shoot 45acp with moon clips which is kinda cool. So saying the judge is worthless is or taurus in general is pretty ignorant.

That being said a 410 auto would have to have a huge grip due to the length of the shells. So the magazine well would have to be somewhere other then the grip which in my opinion would make it pretty difficult to market.

Just my 2c
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:30 AM   #13
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I got my dad a public defender for his bday. Which is a polymer judge. The felt recoil is less then the steel versions and its a very impressive tool when used with ammo made for the judge. Its been so popular that S&W is making a version of it that will also shoot 45acp with moon clips which is kinda cool. So saying the judge is worthless is or taurus in general is pretty ignorant.
Yes and I have also sold... and returned a lot of Judges for repair than you will ever see in a lifetime.

What is ignorant is people testing the loads on paper and being impressed by them and ignoring the facts. Swat Mag did a nice write up on the Judge.. and ballistically it failed miserably.

First you have bird shot or buck shot rounds... which they had BB's bouncing off sheets of plywood.

Then you have the .45LC in it which isn't very accurate considering the lack of barrel and rifling, not to mention the size of the cylinder.

Then you have .410 slugs... which is about a 90-95 gr projectile at about 1000fps.... which is about the same as a .380.

I got a kick out of the short blurp in American Rifleman a few months back... in the Armed Citizens section. Woman shot an intruder in the face with I believe 5 shot shells from a Judge.... he escaped.... and was never caught....

Yes very effective. I suppose ignorance really is bliss eh?

And why wouldn't S&W cash in and make one? They are cashing in on the people who think a shot shell in a revolver = 12ga.

The only practical use I see for one is if you lived in a area with a high population of rattle snakes... and you had kids or animals running around. Other than that it is a gimmick at best.

Taurus is also our shop's number one returned with issues.. followed by Kel-Tec... which we stopped carrying... and S&W 22a's.

Last edited by HKFan9; November 11, 2011 at 12:35 AM.
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:48 AM   #14
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Ya they do look nice on paper. They also did very well on a bloated dead sow. I shot one with the 3 disks 12 BBs at about 15 feet. Tore up heart and lungs pretty well. I would call that pretty effective. My mom and dad love it for carrying around the house and yard for anything from rabid animals to an intruder.

Sometimes because we read horror stories of guys taking 6 from a 357 or 14 from a 9 mil that we forget how fragile people really are. The proof is in the pig. I would rather take a 9 mil in the chest then some of the loads from the judge.
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Old November 11, 2011, 01:19 AM   #15
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I bet a semi-auto firing .410 shells would have a nice, easy-to-hold pistol grip.
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Old November 11, 2011, 01:50 AM   #16
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So a rotting dead carcass from what I can only guess was a few feet away is proof of the effectiveness of the Judge? If it was bloated that means the majority of the tissue was decomposing, little different from a live moving target.

I guess that's why so many professionals are adopting them? The .410 round is great for its intended use.... small game. In face my small game gun of choice.

People are fragile.. I have been shot at (luckily only grazed), stabbed, broken bones, hit across the face with a beer bottle (Corona.... unfortunately it wasn't even a good beer.) Yes we hear of occasional stories of someone surviving 14 9mm rounds... but that's where shot placement comes in. A 9mm with a center mass shot that you would rather be hit by with a good round will deliver much more energy than the .410 rounds.... the .45LC would be a different story... yet than why not just buy a dependable, more accurate .45lc?

I sell a lot of Judges... so it makes me.. and the store owner money, so I can't complain too much. Before you go calling me a crooked sales man pushing stuff I don' stand behind... I flat out tell people my opinion on the Judge.. and Taurus in general... yet they still buy them.
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Old November 11, 2011, 04:12 AM   #17
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Of the 6 or 7 Taurus Judges I've handled and shot, I place then about an 8th inch above the .25 caliber semi automatic pistol. Sure, you can say you have a pistol but is it effective for stopping a full sized man target, much less a large animal of some kind? Over my LEO career I've saw men on the drug PCP that broke their arms, legs, and shoulders themselves from fighting while they were hand cuffed and strapped down to a gurney or hospital bed. They didn't even feel the pain they had caused themselves. That being said, I seriously doubt that any one of them would feel the buck shot from a 410 revolver, unless the barrel was pressed point blank against their head. I personally wouldn't own one. I can't think of any use for it other than to say I have one, if I owned one. I don't knock other folks for having them. To each his own. They just aren't for me.
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:33 PM   #18
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its not that I don't respect your opinion. I just happen to have a fair amount of experience shooting all of them from the public defender to the raging judge that a couple of my cousins just got last month. I like em. I have shot a variety of rounds at a variety of targets. I think they are great because of the versatility not that we have dangerous snakes in iowa but we do get the odd rabid animal or stray dog. My mom will carry it when she works in the garden because its light and shoots exceptionally smooth for a taurus. Dad will carry it on his motorcycle for the same reasons. I also got him a 357 snub since mom likes to steal the Taurus. They keep it loaded with 3 of the federal 3 disc 12BB rounds followed by 2 45 colt. That will stop anything in Iowa. At self defense ranges its very effective. Mom likes the idea of having a bit more leeway on critters.

A face full of anything will deter a bg. Anything I can get my mom to tote around the yard is aces in my book
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Old November 11, 2011, 04:02 PM   #19
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I just don't see the point having a gun that does two things poorly versus one thing well. A .38 special or something of the like would be much more well suited for intended uses. Like I said.. I can see the judge if you had a snake + kids problem.. but then again they do make shot shells for revolvers, so it is pretty much a marketing gimmick.

Sorry if I come across as rude about it, I just hate to see putting faith in an object that is generally understood as sub par for something they could possibly be using to defend their life with. Being on defense means your already at a disadvantage... also no handgun is ever the ideal weapon... but anything I can do to stack the odd's in my favor, the better.

I have been in dicey situations, they are not fun, and they don't look like they do in the movies. Thankfully all of them resulted in no one being killed.
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Old November 11, 2011, 04:27 PM   #20
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I have to ask - WHY?
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Old November 11, 2011, 04:57 PM   #21
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Due to the size of the .410 (length) making any kind of regular semi auto pistol is pointless, the grip would be too long (front to rear) for anyone to manage. Making it with a forward magazine, ala the Broomhandle Mauser would make it illegal in many jurisidctions, and limit sales.

It would have to be some kind of arraingement like the AR/AK and Tommugun "pistols", and would be less efficient for small game than any stocked gun (regular shotgun) would be. Also, to get around the federal limiits on sawed off shotguns, it would have to be rifled, and that also decreases the effectiveness on small game, with shot, as the spin creates a donut hole in the pattern.

The Judge (and any copies) are a novelty, currently selling due to the general (and completely mistaken) idea that its harder to miss with a "shotgun). The .410 round is NOT better for self defense than a .45 Colt, and I cannot understand why anyone would think so.

Even with all pellets (including buckshot) striking your target at close range, I think the mass and energy of the single .45 slug would give superior performance.

In order to make a functional semi auto .410 handgun, it would have to be close to a foot long, even with the shortest practical barrel, its lack of stock would severely limit the usefullness as a sporting/pest control arm, its size takes it completely out of the concealable/selfdefense category, so, other than a gimmick (which would sell some units) it has no real niche to fill.

One could do it, but I seriously doubt enough would be sold to justify its manufacture from a cost/benefit standpoint.
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Old November 12, 2011, 12:47 AM   #22
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Yes and I have also sold... and returned a lot of Judges for repair than you will ever see in a lifetime.

What is ignorant is people testing the loads on paper and being impressed by them and ignoring the facts. Swat Mag did a nice write up on the Judge.. and ballistically it failed miserably.

First you have bird shot or buck shot rounds... which they had BB's bouncing off sheets of plywood.

Then you have the .45LC in it which isn't very accurate considering the lack of barrel and rifling, not to mention the size of the cylinder.

Then you have .410 slugs... which is about a 90-95 gr projectile at about 1000fps.... which is about the same as a .380.

I got a kick out of the short blurp in American Rifleman a few months back... in the Armed Citizens section. Woman shot an intruder in the face with I believe 5 shot shells from a Judge.... he escaped.... and was never caught....

Yes very effective. I suppose ignorance really is bliss eh?

And why wouldn't S&W cash in and make one? They are cashing in on the people who think a shot shell in a revolver = 12ga.

The only practical use I see for one is if you lived in a area with a high population of rattle snakes... and you had kids or animals running around. Other than that it is a gimmick at best.

Taurus is also our shop's number one returned with issues.. followed by Kel-Tec... which we stopped carrying... and S&W 22a's
I agree - SWAT magazine published an honest and devastating report on it.

Back in 1933 a friend of my dad gave me a H&R Handy Gun - .410 single shot pistol - 12" barrel with no choke - I was one happy 7 year old - until I found the effective range for rabbits and prairie dogs was less than 20 yards - fun to shoot but not an effective weapon - except for those wise heads at the ATF. The NFA passed requiring registration because they were sure it was a bad as a Tommy Gun - cost $200 depression day dollars to register - guess they were (and still are) ignorant of real threats (believing such stuff many seem to believe about the Judge) and want to stay expanded in their powers. Even today if you possess one unregistered, there is no way to legally register it - even though for enough bucks and time, one can buy or sell a Tommy Gun.





The reason legal .410 pistols can be sold today is because they have rifling in the barrels and mine doesn't.

It was only marginally effective but, I had fun with it - and it reminds me of the high level of logic - that thought up such highly intelligent and effective programs as "Fast & Furious".
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Old November 12, 2011, 11:58 AM   #23
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Back in 1933 a friend of my dad gave me a H&R Handy Gun - .410 single shot pistol - 12" barrel with no choke - I was one happy 7 year old - until I found the effective range for rabbits and prairie dogs was less than 20 yards
Ooops - I hit the 2 when I meant to hit the 1 - effective range was less than 10 yards - and, seeing that, imagine what the effective range of a .410 pistol with a much shorter barrel would be.

I found my bolt ation single shot 22 was much more reliable to rid us of those fierce Jack rabbits.



Worked on prairie dogs too -
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Old November 12, 2011, 12:08 PM   #24
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FWIW...

I believe you can still register "sawed off shotguns" with the Fed. Its the full auto (machine gun) registry that is closed.
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Old November 12, 2011, 04:26 PM   #25
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OJ- that's an awesome picture, the look on your face, i'm guess that's you, is just classic.
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