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Old June 11, 2013, 09:03 PM   #101
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wIfPv_JL2M

archangel product update
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Old June 14, 2013, 05:40 PM   #102
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well just got my rock solid bolt and mount.

ive just die grinned the boyds stock, easy to do , just took a while to shape, i think it came out nice, im planning to bring BL to a local gunsmith and have him tap mount points and thread them so i can put the RSI mount.

after discussing some emails with barska, they guarantee 3 scope series to withstand the mosin nagant and have assured me of the lifetime warranty on these models. these models are (sniper series, tactical series, and ridge runner series). personally for the way i shoot im looking at the sniper gen 2 , i was also thinking of adding a rail on top to mount a small red dot for close combat, scope for long and red dot for close range(25 yards at most), just an idea, not fully developed but i like the concept of a distance shooter with the ability for close up defense.

ill post some picks of the new bolt and stock inlet so you guys can see it. i think it took me 10 minutes? to get it done, the stock was soft and was easy to shape.


after talking to archangel, ive decided to wait till the green aa9130 stock is out, as green is my favorite color, and it would suit my environment
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Old June 14, 2013, 09:03 PM   #103
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If I may point out a personal observation?

the original intention of this project was to be able to readily switch back and forth between military configuration and a practical sporting configuration with a later goal of being able to move to tactical class rifle added somewhere down the line.

now you have covered the rifle in paint which was not originally used by the russians so it's not really a military correct finish anymore. in addition you are taking it to be drilled and tapped, a process that not only permanently alters the reciever but is also not easily removed/re-added and given the usually shallow holes and thin threads associated with D&T would easily result in stripped threads with too many changings/improper torque.

if you mentioned this already I apologize but I haven't seen whether the bent bolt is a replacement bolt or if it's the one that came with the rifle but if it's the only bolt you have then that not only goes on to increase the difficulty of returning it to military configuration but also would require the military stock to be inletted as well.

I do admire your attention to detail and determination to find the modifications that you find most aesthetically appealing but it does seem as if this project has completely wandered from it's original intent and is now nothing more than a search to turn a mosin nagant into something that it's not.
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Old June 15, 2013, 07:45 PM   #104
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It seems i lost you on the project ill try to bring you up to speed.
(If any issue with post us due to being on a cell)

The painting was due to a safty issue i found in the begining. My barrel had rust dammage and i treated it which removed most of the paint. So i had to repaint for that issue.

The first project was to create a swappable rifle which i succeeded in doing. By military i meant i could put the original parts back together and shoot it with original parts. And take add-on parts onto a new stock and improve accuracy.

the swappable mosin project concluded when i mounted the scope and muzzle break, the accuracy was assured and this template allows people to pic what parts they want to add to their own mosin

The new project im trying to develop will try to increase the mosins accuracy in distance shooting. By mounting a normal scope( average eye relief) over the receiver, ill then develop the project from there.

The bolt is another one i purchased from rock solid, so no damage to original bolt, i can still swap to the old bolt and use it on the original stock. So i hope that answers you and caught you up to speed, im sorry if my posts confused you


the swap project
-any boyds stock for 9130 , 100$
- blackhawk underail adapter, 25$
-mosin plus (9130) fast lock muzzle break, 45$
-brass stacker mount, 59$
-bipod (harris style, or bipod foregrip), 25$/12$
-ncstar LER scope, 25$
-blackpowder claw sling, 15$
the stock is mainly the way for mounting in the bipod system, so as not needing to alter the original

i have not seen need to inlet the stock to fit my moisn (just drop in), only inlet ive seen would be the bolt modification

these are just parts ive tried and that stood up to time, now i will say the ncstar scope works on low power, higher powers will get blury in the center, but it did take the recoil no issue, i would suggest a red dot scope, if your not planning to go past 100 yards, the leapers gold i started with and zeroed was perfect for this and had no issues with the recoil, and as is a red dot, infinite eye relief. bipods work, i like the grip one as i could hold the rifle better and get a better grip, plus bipod is deployable at any point when needed.

overall i have no complaint with the system as it was just something to see how it worked. and it functioned and was accurate with these add on parts. i personally just dont like the scout style setup as its just unfamiliar to me.
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Old June 15, 2013, 10:40 PM   #105
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bolt inlet on boyds stock (old and new bolt), just swap out bolt bodies(rock solid, and original)

took about 10 min with die grinder, the stock is very easy to work with, and shaped quickly to what i need. i actually took my time doing this, experimenting with the bolt on the stock while i worked the stock to accommodate it.







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Old June 17, 2013, 09:28 PM   #106
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Ruger amrerican and mosin 9130

we did some quick shooting, my buddy sighted in his rifle's scope(bushnell dusk dawn 3-9), while he did this i messed around with my muzzle break and shot at 300 irons, i hit way left on the target but that's not what we were there for. we set up some jugs and he blew apart a few water jugs, he shot way low, i believe this was him not the rifle as i hit dead center.

Anyway he let me shoot the ruger to demo the grouping and i have to say i was impressed by the rifles design, I prefer the mosins bolt, it shot a nice group, i did 6 rounds(5 in mag, 1 in chamber), i then did five from the mosin to show the grouping, this was set at the ranch's typical 70 yard point,


actually i need to point this out, while i was picking up brass, a broken metal frame went flying after a huge gust of wind and it landed onto the mosin, its fine, just a few scratches on the barrel. i got home and touched up and was fixed in seconds, btw the paint used is rustoleum matt black spray can, it was close to the mosins original color and prevents anymore rust damage, quick applying and fills in scratches easily. just pointing this out to those if you need touch up paint.


Side note: the 300 yrd is the farthest and i just set it up using a range finder, drilled some X's on the m1A on sunday, using the Leopold scope, yes i have one, and i can say its a good investment on the m1a, not putting one on the mosin sorry

(mosin and ruger 30 06)


Ruger shots


Mosins Shots



the rifle cases(ruger 46" and bulldog 53")






Bullets used

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Old June 19, 2013, 10:28 AM   #107
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cleaning the m1a and some quick picks

-well i was cleaning my m1a soccom(as i forgot to do it sunday) and thought, what the hell, ill post a few quick picks of it here


-this is by far my favorite rifle to shoot, cleaning is ok but can be a pain , i have to lube a lot of parts, using a 308 round and a aftermarket titanium coated piston , with a Leopold scope, and a cheek riser, this is most accurate rifle i own, and is my personal favorite to shoot( but she is a picky rifle as she only likes 2 brands of bullets)

(oh and the paper towel are not what i ram down the barrel, i tear them up to clean the groves and working of the rifle after disassembly, just thought id say so no one got worried)


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Old June 19, 2013, 06:19 PM   #108
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Thats a beautiful weapon Duzell....
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Old June 19, 2013, 08:01 PM   #109
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not really something that has it's place in the C&R section. nice enough gun otherwise.
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Old June 20, 2013, 02:29 PM   #110
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thanks, i just seem to always compare my guns to the m1a, so i thought it was time i posted a pick of it.

currently the mosin is at a gunsmiths getting the scope mount installed onto it, will hopefully be ready friday. the mount will be removable so i can still shoot irons whenever that urge hits me.

scope for the mosin

well i have been talking to barska , and after a long discussion we made a deal, they are going to hook me up with the second gen sniper 6-24 power scope. instead of paying 385.75$, i will be getting it for 50$'s, and it will be here tomorrow. if it can take the mosins recoil without issues i will recommend it, otherwise i toss it and get a leopold ,redfield, or bushnell scope.(personally i feel 308 & 3006 has more kick but thats imo)

i will be heading to the range sunday and test the scope(if the mosin is done), i will post pictures of the scope when it arrives, and ill try to do a shooting video (if my range allows it) , if not pictures will be forthcoming of the shoot

ive also been talking to the guys at archangel and they are stating i can get on the list for a alternative colored stock for the mosin, which comes out later this year
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Old June 21, 2013, 03:14 PM   #111
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mosins back, scope will be in later today

well i just got my mosin back from a friend of my dads.

a Robert Ashmore of monterey, now the shop was nice and roger was a typical gunsmith, i left the mosin with him and went on my way, today i walked in and received my mosin for 47$'s , now this guy is a professional and does great work, most people in the area go to him, he will get what you want expertly done and quick , i highly recommend him for those of you in Monterrey, just dont act like its big 5, he is a gun smith, not a sales clerk.

anyway when picking up i asked if there was any issues, he said there were 2,

1st. the receiver had an air bubble, now this isnt a typical thing , he said out of all the mosins hes worked on 2 have had this issue. easily fixed just get a bigger bolt/screw in that location and you will be good to go.

2nd. on inspection he pointed out that the RSI mount gets hit by the RSI bolt just a little bit, now if you smoothly action the bolt it wont hit or catch. but if your in a hurry you will lock up the bolt and have to shift it down a bit to smoothly action. im going to dremal this corner point down to a rounded corner and that will solve this issue

but other than that He actually highly praised the mosin, said it had a beautiful barrel, loved the bolt and the boyds stock. it did get some scratches, but rustoleom touch up will fix this , so no issues and well worth the price. the scope will be in later and ill take some pics of it




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Old June 21, 2013, 04:55 PM   #112
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Please forgive me, but I don't see how this has anything to do with C&R.
Seems to me, this thread should be in "The Art of the Rifle" as it is no longer in original as issued condition.
Nice rifle, but out of scope for C&R.
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Old June 21, 2013, 09:33 PM   #113
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maybe not, the original project further back is a way to keep mosin stock and swap out parts, the only non original modification is the mount and i had that attached so it can detach and i can swap this RSI bolt for my original bolt, so i can shoot it in original stock. so i can still shoot it close to its original style.

the stock is drop in, the bolt is drop in, most attachments are modifications on the aftermarket stock

and if this belongs somewhere else have it moved, otherwise the early ortion still pertain to keeping the gun in original addition with quick add on parts
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Old June 21, 2013, 09:54 PM   #114
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well i just ordered lower rings, as current ones are too tall,not only for shooting, but for fitting in my case (lol).

i filed a bit on the corners seemed to help the bolt action not hit the mount, still will need to sand the back down for faster actioning
well here is project two almost finished (just need lower scopes)





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Old June 21, 2013, 11:11 PM   #115
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Quote:
maybe not, the original project further back is a way to keep mosin stock and swap out parts, the only non original modification is the mount and i had that attached so it can detach and i can swap this RSI bolt for my original bolt, so i can shoot it in original stock. so i can still shoot it close to its original style.

the stock is drop in, the bolt is drop in, most attachments are modifications on the aftermarket stock

and if this belongs somewhere else have it moved, otherwise the early ortion still pertain to keeping the gun in original addition with quick add on parts
close to original condition and original condition are two very separate and different things.

that mount, though detachable, still permanently modified the receiver.
the paint, though done to prevent rust, is still not the same finish used by russians and therefore can not be returned to original condition. the modification of a single part voids any C&R value as far as ATF is concerned so in the strictest definition, this rifle, from the earliest stages of this project was no longer C&R.

weatherby started out building rifles on mauser actions but I would not post a thread concerning a weatherby here just because it was built on a mauser action. at this point, your rifle is along those same lines.

it's a sporting rifle built on a mosin nagant action and is currently being modified into a target rifle. nothing really C&R left about it.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; June 22, 2013 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Removed snark
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Old June 22, 2013, 10:07 AM   #116
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i see his argument and understand his point, my mosin is now going to focus on target shooting now, thats true.

the original project was to make a mosin into a sporter with no permanent modifications, so that we can go back to the original condition to shoot both ways. as it succeeded, i hope that template gets used by those who want to keep the mosin original with some goodies added to it.

But a thought occurs to me, to mount the original Russian style side scope on the mosin, one would need to drill and tap side mount points into the rifle and modify the bolt to clear the side scope. So that mean the mosins used in the war that were converted to this design were modified from a standard point, and does that mean the mosins of that design are less historic, than the standard counterpart? i dont think so, because i know for a fact that they would test a group of mosins and the accurate ones were taken to be modified to the sniper version. this process was done in our own military as well, to convert rifles without a scope to a scoped rifle, maybe not the bolt bending. but it still seems that if a military can do it, and that rifle is accepted it should be ok if i do it on my mosin.

the projects listed , here are mainly for reference to others, thats why i do this, to note issues and things that have a positive impact on the accuracy or shooting ability of the rifle.

now i have no issue with moving it, but i dont know how to move the thread to a new section, we may need a staff member to move it.
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Old June 22, 2013, 11:23 AM   #117
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Quote:
So that mean the mosins used in the war that were converted to this design were modified from a standard point, and does that mean the mosins of that design are less historic, than the standard counterpart? i dont think so, because i know for a fact that they would test a group of mosins and the accurate ones were taken to be modified to the sniper version. this process was done in our own military as well, to convert rifles without a scope to a scoped rifle, maybe not the bolt bending. but it still seems that if a military can do it, and that rifle is accepted it should be ok if i do it on my mosin.
ok first of all, the modifications that you list on the mosin nagant for sniper was done by the russian government and it was done before the rifles ever entered the hands of soldiers. and they served their roles in wartime. as such they still hold historical value in that condition and in most cases are even more highly sought after because of the relatively low numbers that they were done in compared to their general issue counterparts. none of those rifles were converted to snipers by the joe schmoes weilding them and none of those soldiers chopped down the stocks, added thumbholes or took them to a local gunsmith to be drilled and tapped. the use of these rifles in wartime is what gives them that C&R value in the first place.

secondly, that was not the process used in american sniper rifles. the remington 1903A4 was designed from the ground up as a sniper rifle. they got random barrels, they were all drilled and tapped and they all had different bent bolts from the standard 1903A3 to allow for scope clearance. they were not built as a 1903A3 and then tested for accuracy. the same goes for the winchester model 70s that were used as snipers by the marine corps. they were built from the ground up for the task of being a sniper rifle, not front line battle rifles.

taking a can of spray paint and a hack saw to one of these guns in your garage and then taking it out to kill prairie dogs is not the same as setting up as a sniper in a factory and taken out to kill Nazis.
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:29 PM   #118
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thread is moving to the art of the rifle section
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Old June 22, 2013, 03:38 PM   #119
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Post is now in the art of the rifle bolt action. Posts questions or
Project 3
Converting the mosin nagant to a distance target shooter.
Currently on the mosin

-boyds feather thumbholestock
-grg mfg grip bipod
-blackhawkand undereail
-rock solid bolt and mount
-baraka scope 6-24x
-black powder claw sling

Will test the scopes durability as well as point out specific pro and cons i notice
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:25 PM   #120
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overview of some of the items used while in feild

later will purchase the archangel stock (tan or green) color is undecided as of yet


rock solid industries mount
pros
very strong, adaptive to needs of the user, provides a stable platform
easily adjusted to air pocket issue found in mosin nagants,

solution to air pocket when mounting a scope mount on a receiver:drill the hole bigger and re tap threads for larger bolt/screw, this give stable point and strong mount point.

the design is simple yet gives the rifle a new look, similar to a sporter rifle.


CONS
the RSI do not specify the rail system(it is a weaver rail)

must have a bent bolt system to have a functioning rifle.

after purchasing both RSI mount and bolt combo, i notice the bolt is not ground down enough on the top to clear the scope mount, causing it to catch or scrape the botom right corner of the rear points of the rail system.

a big ROCK SOLID INDUSTRIES is machined into the side of the mount, this could be a pro if you wanted to show who did this, but it forces you to act as an advertising platform without your concent, if they had put it in small font i wouldnt care but it takes the entire left plate to display to the world. its a sneaky way of advertising



Rock solid industries BOLT

purchased for 60 $ with the 100$ mount

Pro
-the bolt is long and smooth,if you bolt is sticky and not smooth this will not improve that much. this is easy to install, unscrew bolt body and install new bolt body its a snap.

- the action in the rifle feels more natural and is easy and quick to work with
-the ball tip is actually bigger and gives more surface area to get the action

CON

-must inlet stock to acomidate bent bolt
-inleting takes 5-10 minutes depending on stock
-bolt contact point is a sqaure edge, this is not a smooth round, so inleting shape is somewhat odd

-if RSI does not machine it right, it will hit rear edge(right underside side) of the back of the mount


GRG MFG grip


Pro

-if mounted close, gives easy control and stability, i find it a useful way to tighten groups as i cant get a good grip on the boyds stock front
-quick deploying legs , made of steel, give stable firing position from any surface.
-the rail is a nice touch for the rifle to have a flash light or a laser, i have not decided what to mount on this yet, any recommendations would be nice.
-quick install to rail on underside of stock, i used the underail adapter from blackhawk , attaches to swivel stud and gives another stud to mount sling on front
-fast leg deployment
CON

-the grip is a little wide for my hands but still stable and strong for shooting
- the legs do not have any dig points, like on a hariss which grip the material they rest on.
-mainly suited to quick stability action


BODS featherwieght, thumbhole stock
PRO
-easy to install, no inletting needed for 9130, at least not on my rifle.
-dropin and screws easily, i recommend front screw then rear and tighten equally, or it will loosen , this will cause loss of accuracy.
- easy grip for right hand and right eye dominant shooters
-cheek pad built in aligns perfectly with irons for a mosin 9130
-free floats barrel and beds rifle
-side vents to cool barrel quickly
-easy to inlet and modify, material is very forgiving
CONS
-very smooth, can be slippery with sweaty hands, especially in front grip point
-not recommended for left eye dominant or left handed
-the recoil pad does reduce bruising but it gives more kick
-stock is lighter , so weight points are easily felt
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:36 PM   #121
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Good reviews...

Your point about seating the action properly before tightening the action screws is important for any rifle, including the MN.

While most rifles have a lug, the block on the MN action serves the same purpose. It should be seated firmly to the rear, first. With the action/screws in place, but loose- tap the buttstock firmly on the ground a few times to seat the action correctly. Then tighten the front action screw, before the rear to equal torque ( a small torque screwdriver like the FAT wrench is good for this). It also helps sometimes to experiment with different torque settings to see the effect on accuracy.

Also like any other bolt gun, it takes but a few minutes to grind out the area of the recoil block in the stock and epoxy bed it. Any side-to-side "slop" is removed, and full contact at the rear is assured.

Just introduced a new Tactical stock...check it out and let me know what you think- as long as you like it J/K...
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:41 PM   #122
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very useful information, i think that will help anyone who comes here and is thinking about getting an alternative stock.

what other stock? are you discussing the archangel ? ive tested that and overview a prototype of the tan, green is yet to be demo'd that i know off..

i know a few MN bull pupstocks, is there another alternative?
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:56 PM   #123
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very concise, well thought out overview. it's clear that you've put a lot of thought into the parts you've selected. some of the cons go without saying.

the 'requires a bent bolt' con for example is a common problem with trying to mount a scope on military surplus rifles. anyone that looks at a straight bolt in the open position can see that it just wont clear a scope mount. it is interesting though that even the RSI bent bolt system couldn't completely clear the mount though, you would think that they would design both parts to have at least a centimeter or 2 of clearance.

one question. can you still use stripper clips with the RSI mount? that may be another for the cons section.



the 'must inlet stock con for the bent bolt' is another common problem with bent bolts on military surplus rifles. this is evident in the US 1903A4 sniper rifles as the standard bent bolts still could not clear the scope mount so they had to curve them into a semi circle angled up and then bend down which required the stocks to be inletted. the Mosin nagant and german snipers tried to fix the problem of having to inlet by mounting unusually high scope rails that allowed the conventional(in the mosin nagant's case PU bolts) bent bolts to clear but the side effect of that was that there is no decent way to get a cheek weld because of how high the scopes rest. the only rifle to solve both problems that I know of is the british enfield 'T' snipers that still used the standard bent bolts and did have a high scope mount but instead attached cheek rests onto the buttstocks to raise the shooters cheek weld up to a comfortable level with the scope.

my personal experience with the boyds thumbhole was a bit different. I had to do some work with a dremel to get the stock to fit my 91/30. not all of these rifles and stocks are built exactly the same every time so there will be some like yours that drop right in and there will be others like mine that need some fitting. the not good for lefties is just a problem in general with thumbhole stocks. my lefty friends hate when I bring my 9130 because the only way they can shoot is by trying to get their thumb over the tang instead of through the hold and the cheek rest is just not comfortable to use. I don't know if boyds makes them or not but there are some left handed thumbhole stocks out there but they have the same problem, righties cant use them.

EDIT: Duzell, I think he means that he just introduced one, check out the link in his sig line.
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Old June 23, 2013, 01:22 PM   #124
Duzell
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Join Date: October 30, 2011
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@tahunua001, i beielve your right, i dont see a way to use strippers, but i never did use them in the first place, i have 5 strippers for at range shoots and ive had nothing but problems with them, not feeding or being very sharp, kinda moot point now.... but yes thats a con for the mount as well.

though it would be less a con if one had the archangel stock, as you load the magazine with strippers as well i think.

what receiver style or year style is your nagant? would that have anything to do with needed inlet? could be important to note these differences for future reference

@tobnpr,

wow, i very much like the design of your viper, the red and black make it stand out,.

just from looking i can note the following
-covers internal magazine, that's a new one and very innovative
-nice sized recoil pad and design, will greatly reduce the recoil for quick firing
-ambidextrous design allows for left and right shooters, to use the built in cheek rest, which looks designed to the right position for irons
-looks to have a stable left hand backing on the magazine shroud

but one thing i find as a issue even on my boyds is the gripping on the front is slippery, i shoot at ranges and in dry desert areas. my shooting style usually needs a good grip on the front under the barrel so i have a stable shooting platform, with the magazine cover i note it could add some nice stable point, but how is the griping on the stock?
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Old June 23, 2013, 01:28 PM   #125
tahunua001
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Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
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mine is 1944, izzy, round receiver.

also if you ever think about upgrading the irons, you should check out smiths sights.
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