The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 3, 2014, 07:13 PM   #1
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
Good rifle for a beginner?

Hello all, before I start I'd like to say that I'm just asking for people opinions on which rifles are a good choice for a beginning shooter. Must be bolt action/lever action, have open sights and the ability to mount a scope, must be centerfire, must be chambered in a light recoiling round and finally, must be fairly inexpensive ($500 tops). The choices I have picked out so far are as follows Savage Hog Hunter in .223 Remington/ 5.56 NATO, and an oddball (kinda) A Marlin 336W in 30-30 ( I like .30 caliber). I'd like to hear your opinion, so let me know your ideas. Thank you.

(Yeah I ask a lot of these questions, I like to know my options, nothing wrong with that )
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 3, 2014, 07:20 PM   #2
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,525
I've never much liked the looks of savage rifles, but they are plenty accurate, I recently shot a savage 223(never did catch the model) and it did very well off hand at a distance. I have also done a fair bit of shooting with marlins and 30-30s. I can say that if you are looking for something that is a step down from your K31 or 91/30, this probably isn't a big enough leap. 30-30 is a milder cartridge but it is negated by the lighter weight of the 336. it does make a great deer rifle, and is a lot of fun to shoot but not something that you'd want to shoot all day long or use to try and get good at longer distance shooting.

personally, I would see if the savage hog hunter or a similar model is available in 243 winchester or 260 remington. both of those cartridges use a 308/7.62x51mm casing which is necked down to 6mm or 6.5mm(respectively to 243 and 260) so they are flatter shooting and lighter bullets make it recoil lighter. ammo's not as cheap as 223, but on par with 30-30 and reloading is not difficult.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is online now  
Old September 3, 2014, 07:29 PM   #3
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
I "have" (it's my rifle technically) a Remington 700 in .260 Remington. I haven't shown it in a long long time and it needs a scope too. I've considered it, but I don't really enjoy shooting it that much.
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 3, 2014, 07:33 PM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Mo, you ever heard of Analysis Paralysis?

You have all the information you could ever need, my young friend.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old September 3, 2014, 07:36 PM   #5
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
You can close it if you want, I just was wondering if there was anything else out there. Sorry.
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 3, 2014, 08:24 PM   #6
overthere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2012
Posts: 185
Here is a Mossberg MVP in 223 that I believe meet the criteria:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...556+Black+10RD

Don't know anything personally about this model but I read a review in G&A (if I recall correctly) and I remember them talking about the fact that it accepts regular AR magazines, unusual for a bolt action.

Link to Mossberg's site:

http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifl...6mm-nato/27755

Last edited by overthere; September 3, 2014 at 08:35 PM.
overthere is offline  
Old September 3, 2014, 09:16 PM   #7
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 716
Mosin,
What's your goal? If you don't have a goal you might end up with a big pile of guns that aren't your go to rifle.

I've been using a winchester 94 30-30 for 20 years for deer hunting in short range brushy swamp conditions.

It will still kick you pretty hard. Sure I'll shoot 30-60 rounds just fine but the thin butt stock can kick hard. The marlin is similar and I have shot the 336 up to 444 marlin.

A Pachmyer slip on recoil pad makes things better.

But if I had to grab a gun this second that might not be my choice. On the other hand I have an identical older Win 94 and it's my go to cowboy cast lead shooter.

Did I mention I have a pile of guns with no use besides range shooting and sentimental value.

Why do I have a British 303 No 1 Mark 3?
1. It was $100
2. It was my grandpa's and I didn't ever see him shoot it.
3. To add on to the pile of guns.

I still wouldn't trade any of these away.

Personally to me a starter rifle is a good bolt action 22lr or mag then some middle weight rifle up to 243 and finally something in the 308/30-06 area.
Blindstitch is online now  
Old September 3, 2014, 09:32 PM   #8
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 429
Gotta agree with Blindstitch.

What are you trying to do with said gun?

Hunting, plinking, long distance target, or hunting?

We need to know these things for us to attempt to give an informed opinion.
std7mag is offline  
Old September 3, 2014, 09:36 PM   #9
Unlicensed Dremel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2014
Posts: 1,718
For an adult or kid?

I think your chambering is a very good choice.

There are myriads of bolt action .223s (and pumps and levers too).

But since you want irons, it might be hard to beat a CZ 527 - the carbine with the short barrel and irons.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=439106178

Or the FS is what I'd get in that situation:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=430160312

Edit: Oops, wait - sorry, those are over budget. Ignore above. In that case...

Hmmm, are you willing to go used, or new only? I'd definitely go used on that budget, and look for a good deal on an old Remington model
seven with iron sights in .223 or .243.

Find something old - like 1970s or earlier, when most rifles had iron sights. Your usual suspects -if not a Rem Seven, then a Ruger 77, Rem 700, Rem 788, Win 70, Browning A-bolt, etc. It'll be just on the edge of your budget, and you'll have to be patient, but that's the best call on that budget. New, you can't get there from here - new Savages and such don't have irons (do they?).

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/...g=223-556-nato

Now, the Mossberg MVP (one of the variants) does meet the criteria, as someone said, BUT it has a detachable mag (can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint - I say bad), and the sights are pretty cheap. And well, it's a Mossberg. I just cannot shake being leery of that bolt action since the bolt-through-the-face stories from a few years back. Just a cheaply-made rifle.

Think OLD, meaning quality and value for your dollar. There are many used guns out there which have been barely shot.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Bolt-Action...spx?ca=5000020

[Oh, and nothing wrong with asking variants of the same question over and over - no harm, no foul. If you're saving up, why not gather as much info as possible, espec. if that process is itself fun?]
__________________
--Only accurate rifles are interesting, and only *really* accurate rifles are *really* interesting.
--Life is *way* too short to shoot or hunt with ugly plain plastic stocked guns.

Last edited by Unlicensed Dremel; September 4, 2014 at 09:25 AM.
Unlicensed Dremel is offline  
Old September 3, 2014, 09:44 PM   #10
DPris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4,777
Mo,
You've been through all this before.

How many times do you need to have people go through it again?

You've discussed the Savage, you've discussed the .30-30.

You have never settled on an exact purpose, you've continually bounced around from gun to gun to gun, as the whim of the moment strikes you.
People have given you opinions.

Decide on what you want the gun to do, pick one, and go with it.
Someday, when you're older, you can get one of everything, but now you just flit from gun to gun asking the same questions & getting the same answers.

Not trying to dump on you, guy, but jeeze.
Fun's fun & all, most of us enjoy talking guns with you, but not the same old stuff in irregular cycles.

Settle on something & stick to it!
Denis
DPris is offline  
Old September 3, 2014, 09:44 PM   #11
Bennyfatsack
Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2014
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 77
I'd go a .243, very versatile, hand load from 55gr up to 100gr depending on twist, load to suit required recoil. Not sure what platform you should use I personally haven't bought a iron sight centre fire for years now other than a couple of rem 7600's which I scoped any how. .243 is a calibre you won't regret buying. Of my varied 16+ calibres from .22lr to 45-70 the .243 is easily me go to rifle, easy shooting accurate noisier than .223 ,which I also have, but flatter shooting with marginally increased recoil.. I think ill have to change my name to Benny.243
Bennyfatsack is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 12:24 AM   #12
Brotherbadger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2010
Posts: 782
What are you going to use it for? A 336 was my first rifle, but it was for hunting and not plinking.
__________________
Once Fired Brass, Top quality, Fast shipping, Best prices.

http://300AacBrass.com/ -10% Coupon use code " badger "
Brotherbadger is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 05:58 AM   #13
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
Okay, I'll decide on which one I'll get and stick with it. Sorry guys.
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 4, 2014, 06:20 AM   #14
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 2,191
I am in love with my Rossi m-92 in 357/38(shooting 38 is quieter than shooting a .22 and literally ZERO recoil), but I don't know what your looking for exactly. I also love .223 in a solid bolt action, accurate and affordable/available ammo. obviously two very different guns though.

these are fun, although probably not the most accurate option
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/76665

I have this same model in the 20" stainless, can be had cheaper in blue, fantastic rifle outta the box, don't listen to the haters
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/56503
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 06:25 AM   #15
Bennyfatsack
Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2014
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 77
I think u should be allowed to ask the question as much as u like, it's the first I've seen and you will always have others like myself giving opinions wanted or unwanted, if others have responded before they don't need to again. It's better to ask a stupid question than make a stupid mistake! Not saying your question stupid by any means, but you get my gist, if you feel you need/want more info or advice before making a decision which cannot be easily reversed, ask away I say
Bennyfatsack is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 06:48 AM   #16
FourEyes
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2011
Posts: 10
BENNY f

i agree with you
FourEyes is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 08:11 AM   #17
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,270
Noone is saying that Mo can't ask the question. It's just that he has a case of what the guitar world calls GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) as a potential to help his problems in training which some people have spent time helping him with.

I think the $500 would be better spent on a good scope and bipod/shooting rest along with thousands of rounds of ammo for the 10/22. Put a Boyd's stock, new trigger and/or barrel on it if you have to spend money.

If you really need a new gun, I recommend the CZ 452 in .22. That gun did more for my shooting than anything else. Even the .223 has more push, flash and noise. You can almost fire a bolt .22 with no hearing protection (don't) so there truly are no substitutes for working on anticipating shots/flinching and working on your fundamentals. I can shoot mine for an hour and a half on $7 worth of ammo. Not to mention it's capable of 1.25 MOA in my hands and less than 3/4 MOA in more capable hands. But I definitely would not buy another center fire without burning through a lot of .22 with productive practice
__________________
For firearms news and discussion from a fellow TFL member, visit shootersreportblog.wordpress.com. If you have a suggestion or would like to comment or contribute, I welcome private messages!

The Shooter's Report is also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theshootersreport
dakota.potts is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 08:16 AM   #18
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
I know. this rifle I'm going to get is a ways down the road. I am going Friday to get a big bulk pack of the Aguila Super Extras for my 10/22, they shoot very well in my 10/22. Never said I would stop practicing with the .22 though.
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 4, 2014, 08:51 AM   #19
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Posts: 1,270
If it's for a down the road rifle, I'd recommend a CZ. What do you want to do with it? Just bench rest? Hunt? What range are you going to take it out to? I'd get it it in a .223, 7.62x39, .243, .308, or maybe one of the 6.5mm rounds. Specific model and caliber choice will be dictated by your intended uses and what ammo availability you're okay with.

We recently won a Mossberg MVP predator, and it is a pretty light and handy plinking rifle. I personally would not take it over a CZ, but it's accurate and will do the job. I suspect the same is true of almost any major brand rifle over $300
__________________
For firearms news and discussion from a fellow TFL member, visit shootersreportblog.wordpress.com. If you have a suggestion or would like to comment or contribute, I welcome private messages!

The Shooter's Report is also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theshootersreport
dakota.potts is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 09:26 AM   #20
Polinese
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2010
Posts: 468
What is it you don't like about your 260 exactly? Seems like it'd be easier to customize that into what you want than going with an entirely new rifle.
Polinese is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 09:40 AM   #21
precision_shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 1,649
I will second the Mossberg MVP Patrol.
I bought one in .223 for my 11yo son to use for hunting and target shooting.
The factory irons (Fiber Optic front sight) are decent. Front is a little large for beyond 50 yds shooting. It comes with a 1-piece picatinny base to mount a scope. I mounted a new Leupold VX-1 2-7x33 on it, but haven't sighted it in yet.
Trigger is quite good. It's an Accutrigger copy and breaks cleanly with little overtravel or takeup.
Bolt is a little sloppy at full throw, but doesn't bind when cycling.
It uses standard AR magazines (Steel, Aluminum, or Polymer). Comes with 1 10rd steel mag. I bought and plan to use 10rd Pmags going forward.

Once I sight in the scope and test it for groups, I will report back on the accuracy.
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776
precision_shooter is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 09:58 AM   #22
Mosin-Marauder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,326
Quote:
What is it you don't like about your 260 exactly? Seems like it'd be easier to customize that into what you want than going with an entirely new rifle.
It's not fun to shoot. At all. I killed my first deer with it, but that's it.
__________________
Proud owner of two pieces of history!
K-31, made in 1949 all original, beech stock.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30, 1941 all original.
Mosin-Marauder is online now  
Old September 4, 2014, 10:08 AM   #23
Unlicensed Dremel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2014
Posts: 1,718
Hey if you want uber-fun, one thing you might try is a true varmint chambering - especially something like the fairly-new .17 (Hornady) Hornet, which is a centerfire - that's my next rifle purchase - a CZ 527 in that chambering. In essence, no recoil. But a laser to 200 yards.

Or besides a .17 Hornet, you might even try one of the many other varmint chamberings with less recoil and muzzle blast than even .223 rem:

22s
.222 Rem
.221 Fireball
.219 Donaldson Wasp
.218 Bee
.22 Hornet
.22 K-Hornet

20s
.204 Ruger
.20 Tactical
.19 Calhoun Hornet

17s
.17 Remington
.17 Rem Fireball
.17 Mach IV
.17 Ackley Hornet

and etc. etc. etc.

There are LOTS of good used rifles in .222 rem on the market; then after that .22 hornet. Lot of Rem 788s and such. Some with iron sights.

.218 Bee is another great little round - You can sometimes find used Marlin 1894s in .218 Bee - that's a great little rig that meets your criteria.
__________________
--Only accurate rifles are interesting, and only *really* accurate rifles are *really* interesting.
--Life is *way* too short to shoot or hunt with ugly plain plastic stocked guns.
Unlicensed Dremel is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 10:57 AM   #24
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 2,191
I don't se a problem with the "gear acquisition syndrome", I was the same way, and I don't regret any of my purchases. now that I have "most of the gear I want, I have more an "consumables acquisition syndrome" whereas i'm am more focused on munitions than firearms, but I still try to buy a couple firearms a year if finances allow. even though I am far from a professional shooter, what fun is a hobby, if you take the fun out of it....

nothing feels better, to me, than buying a new gun
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is offline  
Old September 4, 2014, 11:20 AM   #25
DPris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4,777
The "problem" isn't in acquiring gear, it's more in NOT acquiring gear.

Mo has the info, spread out over several threads over several weeks.
He has more than enough to make a choice, he's just unable to make one & keeps covering the same ground over & over in apparently looking for an answer he likes better.

Nothing wrong with surveying the field, but constantly wandering that field & hoping for advice that supports a whim of the moment rather than basing a decision on valid advice & information already given in detail is a bit counterproductive, and that comes from somebody who's been extremely patient with Mo in trying to help him in his situation.

Nothing wrong with seeing something that looks interesting & asking for others' knowledge & experience with it.
Once.
Maybe twice.
After that....

Calibers have been discussed, individual guns have been discussed.

I am not dumping on Mo just for the sake of dumping on Mo.
Denis
DPris is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13501 seconds with 9 queries