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Old November 9, 2011, 12:12 PM   #1
BossHoss
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300 Win Mag MOA and trajectory sight-in help

Hi,

How many ways an you screw up a hunt.

1: Mess with your gun 1 week before the hunt.


My friend, whom I am taking on possibly his last hunt, has 300 win mag that he sighted in a few weeks ago, then took the scope off 2 days ago to change it.

Groan.

New scope , bore sighted. Will ONLY be able to take it to a 50ft indoor range before the hunt. Not possible to go anywhere else to shoot before the hunt. And , I will not let him take practice shots off the disabled spot he is going to hunt, it will be to close to opening morning for shooting when he gets there.

OK, so ...the only question is :

If YOU have a 300 Win MAg sighted at 50ft....what should the drop on the 50ft target be to correct for MOA at 100yd? 150?

I am thinking about 3/4 inch drop from center on the 50ft target would be "close" at 100yd...

Your opinions are welcome. Not about the F-d up situation with my friend and his brain fart of changing scopes, and not having a real place to sight in before the hunt.....just help me to get his gun close at 100yds with only a 50ft target to shoot at....LOL....groan.

I am taking to VETs, an 85yr old and 76yr old to my spread for the WI gun deer hunt, so they can hobble out to my picnic tables on our hill , probably the only spot they could get to. They are both disabled in someway or another , but do not want to take advantage of disabled advantages...shooting from vehicles,,,etc..

These tough old birds want to do it "fair" , they say. And both are seasoned hunters...but have not been out for a decade. The oldest has a mauser that is spot on....the Win MAg was too...till the 76yr old had a brain fart...and took his scope off.

Groan. No good deed goes unpunished. I am paying for it, and hope to be grinning with them after they bag a few off the hill.

How low should I sight it in at 50ft for the 300 win mag barII browning?

thanks in advance.
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Old November 9, 2011, 12:53 PM   #2
DeeDubya
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You should be able to get close with the external ballistics chart published by the manufacturer of the ammo. They will probably show a 300 win mag sighted in at 200yds but also show how high at 100. Chances are it might be dead on at 50yds and again at 200yds as the bullet will pass through the line-of-sight going up and coming down.
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Old November 9, 2011, 01:10 PM   #3
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Here's one for a Hornady 180 gr sp.

http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Win-Mag-180-gr-SP/
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:00 PM   #4
GURU1911
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.300 win mag ballistic flight path

Since you did not specify the bullet weight, i will provide data for both the 150 & 180 grain bullets. Keep in mind the rifle will be sighted-in @ 25 yards & will yield a zero point @ 250 yards. Distances are for average normal hunting distances:

150 grain bullet-----25 yds-----0.00"
50 yds.---- + 3/4"
100 yds---- + 2 1/4"
150 yds---- + 2 1/2"
200 yds---- + 1 3/4"
250 yds----- 0.00"
300 yds----- minus 3.0"
350 yds----- minus 7 3/4"

180 grain bullet-----25 yds------0.00"
50 yds------ + 3/4"
100 yds------ + 2"
150 yds------ + 2 1/4"
200 yds------ + 1 1/4"
250 yds------ minus 1"
300 yds------ minus 4 1/2"
350 yds------ minus 10"

typical whitetail & mule deer are about 18" from back to brisket. Sighting in the rifle @ 25 yards, will yield a ballistic flight path in which the bullet never rises nor falls outside of this 18" gap. Ballistics are really simple once you understand the laws of math & physics which govern the bullets flight path. Good luck this hunting season.

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Old November 9, 2011, 04:20 PM   #5
kraigwy
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I have to agree with Guru on this subject.

Just about any modern hunting round, 243, 308, 270, '06, and 300 WM can be sighted in at 25 yards, and will give you point blank range to about 300 yards, within the normal hunting range.
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:43 PM   #6
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I ran the figures for a 165 gr .400 BC bullet at 3100 fps. Your ballistics for either a 150 or 180 grain load should be pretty close to the same. Yardages are in 17 yard (51 ft.) increments out to 340 yards. I chose a + or - 3" sight radius, giving a 300 yard point blank range (the bullet never rising above or falling below 3" out to 300 yards).



You can see that with the center line of the scope 1.5" above the center of bore, that at 50 ft. the bullets should be striking .5" below the crosshair. This is what I would recommend. The bullets should be about 2.5" high at 100 yds., at their maximum of 3" high at around 145 yds., dead on again at about 260 yds., and only 3" low at 300yds.
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Old November 9, 2011, 06:32 PM   #7
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Can these old guys hold steady enough to know where the "real" POI is? Hope you have sandbags or you do the shooting.
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Old November 9, 2011, 06:38 PM   #8
black mamba
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Agreed, warbird, the problem with a close (50 ft) zero is that a very small error (a fraction of an inch) at that distance could be 6" or more at 150-200 yards, enough to miss a deer.
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Old November 9, 2011, 07:23 PM   #9
kraigwy
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Quote:
Can these old guys hold steady enough to know where the "real" POI is? Hope you have sandbags or you do the shooting.
Don't sell "old dudes" short. Some of use don't use sand bags. I use a sling, un-supported.

And no one I know sights his rifle in at 50 feet or 25 yards and stops without confirm his zero at 250 or what ever yardage.

Personally I do mine (hunting rifles) at 25 yards, and then confirm the zero by shooting it at 100, 200 and 300 yards. Then see if I can wack my 8 inch gong at 400. Then I figure its zeroed.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:35 PM   #10
BossHoss
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Thank you all for the data. I believe armed with this I will get him "On Deer".

The old-timer who's win mag this is, is a stroke victim, with his left hand a little gumped up but somewhat functional. He is great shooter, collector, and flew warbirds. He just brain farted and swapped scopes after we sighted it in at a real rifle range. His excuse was he used to shoot groups "this" big...holding his hands in 2 in circle ...and he could only get a 4" group at the range.......

Sheeesh ,I told him, you got a bad hand...it would have been good enough.

Old-timer still wants to shoot like a marksman...but forgot that it is a no-no to MESS WITH YOUR GUN A WEEK BEFORE OPENING MORNING...lol.

Thanks, all..

Here's hoping these geezers get 2 deer a piece off my hill overlooking the Weirgor river in Upper NW WI.

Pics with the Win mag if Geezer #2 bags one.....
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Old November 10, 2011, 02:49 PM   #11
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OMG! I'm and old geezer!!! Thanks for the update guys.
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Old November 10, 2011, 03:24 PM   #12
Dave Anderson
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Kudos

Appears you have the information to make the best of the situation.

Just wanted to add a "well done" to you for your thoughtfulness to these gentlemen.
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Old November 10, 2011, 03:35 PM   #13
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Assuming a normal scoped rifle (C/L 1.5" above bore) and a 165grSP doing 3,100fps out the muzzle:

QuickTarget tells me that an exact zero 0.7" below exact point-of-aim at 17yards (50ft) provides a point blank zero (±2½") out to 280yards.

The lesson here is that few people appeciate what a short-range zero can do for you in practical shooting. (Although the military has known it for generations)

Last edited by mehavey; November 10, 2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:24 PM   #14
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You don't have a spare rifle he can use? Or maybe he's just one of the bullheaded people who won't use anything but their own. For one thing, I can't see such a person using a 300 WM on deer @ 100 yards.
I guess I'm just different since I usually have 6 or 7 rifles tuned and ready to go before deer season. This year is a little different since the missus lost 1/2 her thumb 2 weeks ago and I've been playing nurse, housekeeper, dishwasher, and chauffeur instead of shooting. Season opens Saturday and I only have 3 rifles ready. How can I manage? Well, not that much of a hardship since I'm pretty sure I can't use more than one at a time although I really do like to taylor my rifle to the specific hunting condition.
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Old November 11, 2011, 07:11 AM   #15
BossHoss
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Dave A, thanks for the props. I am doing this for these two old friends because I doubt they would ever get the chance again. Neither wants to hunt from a vehicle, even though as disabled , they could.

I am paying it forward for my elders. Geezer #1's bro was my father's childhood companion, #2 is dear friend of both of us. I hope someone takes me out to get a moose when/if I turn 80 and can still see and pull the trigger.

I have two easy spots for them to walk out to from the backdoor. #1 may climb up an enclosed tower stand or post for a drive. Feisty geezer.

--------------------------------

Mehavey, that is exactly where we put it last night. He has a range of shots from 50yards to 325yds. He is a decorated marksman, and proved it again at the range last night....perfect windage and we ladder sighted it up the target to .6 - .7in low from center. He grouped like he was at Camp Perry.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mobuck, you don't understand the situation at all. I haven't given the details. Noo....he would never have a backup rifle..lol. Of course he does. But, this is his first choice. I understand taking care of someone, I took care of my WWII Vet Father for 7 yrs after my Mom was killed by a Pakistani Illegal immigrant in a car crash. It is tough, and rewarding at the same time. My Wife and I are thankful for the time we had with him.

Geezer #2 is using a Browning BAR II, because of his condition. His left hand doesn't work well, so the auto helps out, it is pussycat. He has more notches on the stocks of his guns (deer, elk ) than most. The 300 Win Mag will help us get that buck across the river, too. LOL.

Geezer no#1 85yr old will be using a Mauser taken off a dead Kraut that his brother killed in '44. Sporterized, glass beaded, changed out to 30-06. He did very well for his age at the 100yd mark two weeks ago. He shoots regularly with us at our private pistol range, and can group a .22 rifle pretty damn good. His backup is a vintage 94, open sights for the close in shots under the stand.


Thanks again....and I will post pics of the Geezers with their quarry.
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Old November 11, 2011, 07:37 AM   #16
oneoldsap
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Windage

I'd be more concerned about windage than elevation . If you're off 1/4 inch at 50 ft. , that turns into 18" at 300 Yds or there abouts . Probably a windage error at 50 ft. wouldn't even show up but will multiply rapidly as the range increases . IMHO I couldn't carry that rifle into the field without at least verifing a 100 Yd. zero .
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