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Old November 8, 2011, 02:52 PM   #1
ak-kev
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Black powder 45LC question

Hey guys, I've searched several forums on this topic but didnt find an answer to my question. Im ordering a conversion cylinder for my Uberti 1858 Remmy and want to make my own 45 loads for it. I currently use my own home made black powder (40gr) , home made lubed wads, and balls that I cast myself with CCI #11 caps and this combo is absolutely wonderful.

I would like to load 45 Colt cartridges with 35gr of my powder, the lubed wads, and a non lubed 255gr lead bullet I currently cast for my 1873's. Is this satisfactory? I lube my 255's with lee liquid alox, but I would just not use any lube on them and just use the lubed wad. Does this make sense? Thank you or your help. Kevin.
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Old November 8, 2011, 03:32 PM   #2
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I lube my 44-40's with a beeswax/crisco mix, no wad.
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Old November 8, 2011, 04:02 PM   #3
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Smokeless lubes do not work well with black powder. I am unfamiliar with lee alox but it sure sounds like a smokeless lube.

I would use a mix of beeswax and crisco. About 50/50 in cold weather, more beeswax in summer.

The wads would probably help.
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Old November 8, 2011, 04:41 PM   #4
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Off the top of my head I would say that your configuration seems reasonable. I say that because you are using a lubed wad between the BP and the bullet. With just the Lee's Alox I would say you would probably have fouling issues but the lubed wad should negate that just fine. One thing to consider is fouling of the "dry" BP from lube leaching from the wad. It depends on the lube you use and probably how quickly you shoot those cartridges. I'd be concerned about having a lubed wad sitting up against dry powder for a long period.

Really you are going to need to experiment. Load up 10 or 15 rounds and see how it works. Let us know.
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Old November 8, 2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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Thank you for the advice guys. I was thinking of leaving off the alox for the black powder loads and just use plain lead bullets with the lubed wads. The wads are felt, punched out with a gasket punch and then soaked in a melted concoction of a 50/50 crisco/parafin mix. The result is a very dry wad ie: no dripping grease.
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:02 PM   #6
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There's a guy on my forum that swears by Alox for bp cartridges. There are exceptions to the petro based lubes with bp such as paraffin. Maybe alox falls into that category. I haven't tried it.
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Old November 9, 2011, 06:11 AM   #7
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Thank you Hawg. I went to your site and have been doing some reading. I appreciate it sir. Kevin.
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:04 PM   #8
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Why make it harder than it has to be? Pan lube with homemade Emmert's, wipe the bases then seat on your compressed BP load with a light taper crimp. The grease grooves should carry enough lube to keep your fouling soft and it cleans up quick with wet patches.
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:49 PM   #9
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AK;
I've used Alox in BP 45-70. Accuracy beyond 200 yds was very poor. Fouling a bit difficult to remove. Your results will likely vary.

As for lube wads in cartridges, what about powder contamination? I always use an over powder wad (vegetable wad - very thin cardboard) to prevent lube migrating from the projectile to the powder. I suspect that a lubed wad over powder in a cartridge won't work too well due to powder contamination. Of course that will depend upon how long the cartridges will be left loaded before firing. If you do decide to try lube wad over powder, please let us know how it works.

In any event, good luck and have fun.
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:56 PM   #10
ak-kev
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I am trying to make this as simple as I can rr2241tx. I tried my hand at pan lubing and found it to be very troublesome. I switched to alox and havent looked back. Its very easy and quick.

I guess with these black powder cartridge loads, I'll leave off the alox and just use 30gr of powder and a lubed wad. We'll see what happens when the conversion cylinder gets here.

rdstrain49, would this be any different than using these lubed wads over powder in the regular c&p cylinder (as far as contamination is concerned)?
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Old November 9, 2011, 05:26 PM   #11
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robhof

It would be the same, except usually when you load a cylinder full, you shoot it soon, with cartridges you might not use them for weeks or longer, depending on how much you load at a time. I usually reload for a few hrs and make several shells, that'll last me several weeks. Proper storage away from heat will prevent contamination. I've got a few hundred 38's that were lubed with Alox and sat in a car trunk for a few days(summer), these were with modern powder and they started squibbing, still pulling and reloading them, a few at a time. If you tumble lube, wipe the base of the bullet before loading.
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Old November 9, 2011, 06:42 PM   #12
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I use the same .357s with black or smokeless powders. I lube them with Lyman Alox when I size them. It's a pretty soft lube and I don't notice much difference in fouling between that and purpose-made BP lubes. I've never tried the Lee stuff with BP - I have my doubts about it.
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Old November 9, 2011, 08:26 PM   #13
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AK;

I would think so. Usually C&B revolvers are shot not too long after being loaded. Not much time for contamination. When I carry any C&B revolver in the back country where it may remain loaded for several days, I load 1)powder 2) un-lubed ball 3) Some type of grease / lube over the ball, or no lube at all depending on weather etc.

On the other hand, I have 45-70 BP cases that were loaded last year ( during a marathon of reloading ) that shoot as good as the day they were loaded. For cartridges I load 1) powder 2) veg wad 3) projectile. Even in hot weather the BP lube doesn't seem to migrate past the wad.

I don't have any scientific proof. All I do know is what works for me. One of the great things about shooting the old designs is it seem like the experimenting is never done.
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Old November 10, 2011, 04:00 AM   #14
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I have always used alox in the BP cartrdge bullet lubes and never had a issue with the stuff out of the stink of mixing it on the wifes stove
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:26 AM   #15
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I loaded my .45 Colt black powder cartridges with 40 grains of FFFg, placed a lubed felt wad over the powder and then set a 250 grain bullet.

These bullets are stored in plastic "bullet" containers, with the bullet in the downwards position. Some of these cartridges have been loaded for more than two years. I fired six of them yesterday and had no problems.

My felt wads were store bought. I recently asked a question about storing these and corrosion. Everyone who replied to the question said they would be fine, just don't store them in a manner that would allow the lube from the felt to wick into the powder.
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Old November 20, 2011, 08:19 AM   #16
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Well, I tried it out yesterday. I used 30 and 35gr loads with a homemade lubed wad over the powder and a 255gr LSWC lubed with Lee Alox. All ran perfect. What fun this is. I suspect that the Alox is a moot point since its being followed by a lubed wad. Just wanted to give ya'll an update. Kevin.
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Old November 20, 2011, 08:50 AM   #17
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The problem would show up during cleaning. Petro lubes will turn a five minute cleaning job into 30 or more.
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Old November 20, 2011, 12:21 PM   #18
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Well I've only been shooting black powder for about a year and a half and I'm not comfortable only cleaning my BP revolvers for only 10 min. I completely dissassemble them and thoroughly clean them. I didn't notice any difference n the fouling anyway.
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Old November 20, 2011, 09:36 PM   #19
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You can dispense with those silly lubed wads for cartridge loads. Just fill the grooves with lube like they are designed to be. All it takes is a finger and some lube.
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Old November 20, 2011, 09:53 PM   #20
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That is true Model-p, I will do that next time I cast some, but I wanted to use the bullets I had on hand for my regular smokeless powder loadings. When I have my next casting session I will omit the Alox stage and lube as you say. Thank you. Kevin
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Old November 20, 2011, 10:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Well I've only been shooting black powder for about a year and a half and I'm not comfortable only cleaning my BP revolvers for only 10 min. I completely dissassemble them and thoroughly clean them. I didn't notice any difference n the fouling anyway.
I've been shooting it since 69. I tear mine down once a year. Or whenever I happen to think about it.
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Old November 21, 2011, 06:37 AM   #22
ak-kev
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That just shows you Im a rookie Hawg Im sill leery of the corrosive properties of the BP residue.
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Old November 21, 2011, 02:05 PM   #23
Model-P
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Quote:
Im sill leery of the corrosive properties of the BP residue.
Corrosion requires moisture. Keep the fouling well oiled (I use CLP) and you should be fine. The oil down in the action mixes with the fouling and I have yet to find any corrosion whenever I have some other reason to tear the gun down, at which point I also clean the innards. Then again, I'm not wearing my sixgun horseback in the rain every day either.
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Old November 21, 2011, 03:44 PM   #24
jolasa
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My 45 Long Colt black powder load for use in my 1858 Remmy with Kirst conversion cylinder.

28 -32 grains Swiss FFFg (depends on bullet, see below)
About 1/4" powder compression
0.030" card wad over powder
Bullet grooves with SPG, pan lubed (no lube wad used in a cartridge, ever)
Lymen 454190 bullet (250 grain - 20:1 alloy)
or
Lymen 452460 bullet (200 grain - 20:1 alloy)
Light roll crimp to prevent bullet backing out with recoil

Last edited by jolasa; November 21, 2011 at 03:55 PM.
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