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Old November 8, 2011, 02:06 AM   #1
Mancid Rilk
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New to firearms, want advice on AR15

I have limited knowledge when it comes to weapons but I know a few things, I initially wanted to post this on ar15.com but apparently you have to use a non anonymous email which I do not possess. Someone should tell them that the internet is largely anonymous, hah, that aside I'm pulling the trigger on an AR15 build of some type within a week (there's a big gunshow in town). I'm open to purchasing outside of the show but first I want to compare prices.


That out of the way, I want to know the pros and cons to different manufacturers and AR setups. I have already established that I do not want a pencil thin barrel for heat concerns and I would like a flat top for open sights and future mounting options.

I'm considering a .308 AR10 build and want to know the difference in accuracy and ammo prices in bulk vs the .223 counterpart and really any and all differences you care to mention. I would also like an 18" barrel but 16 is alright, if you can tell me the difference in functionality between the different sized and types of AR barrels, that'd be great too.

Spending the least money possible is a goal but I don't want junk parts either. I don't want to spend more than maybe $900 on a .223 or $1200 on a .308. I've done a few days worth of research and need the personal advice of experts and enthusiasts so here I am!

Thanks in advance for all your help!
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Old November 8, 2011, 03:27 AM   #2
spyderdude
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I don't claim to be an expert on the AR platform. In fact I'm still very new to it myself and am on my 3rd one. The first two were M&P15s which are excellent rifles but had to sell em. This time around I got into a Colt 6920 which I'm happy with and have always liked the M4 style over the other variants. I do believe the mid-length rifles are 18" barrels and slightly longer handguards but don't quote me on that. You can get a little more velocity with having a longer barrel maybe a little better accuracy too. All the AR style rifles function pretty much the same regardless of barrel length. I also think you'd be paying more to shoot .308 than you would .223. I'd like to get a 308 someday but it'll probably be an M1A rather than an AR-10. I think an M4 style AR is just what I wanted because the distances I shoot at are 300 meters or less and I'm more of a close quarter type person rather than long distance. There are tons of options out there when it comes to the AR-15, so it comes down to what your use and budget will be.
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Old November 8, 2011, 05:42 AM   #3
RT
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Best value- COLT 6920 for $945
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920-OB.aspx
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:22 AM   #4
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Be careful buying parts at a gun show. The quality of unknown parts could come back to haunt you.

You can build the AR15 for about half the cost of the .308 AR platform. The .308 platform does not share the parts sharing that the AR15 does. It is very propitiatory with the uppers, lowers,magazines and a some small parts.

Surplus 5.56 is less than half the cost of surplus 7.62.

Quote:
Best value- COLT 6920 for $945
This is a great way to go. A high quality rifle in your price range. Buy the first one and learn about the rifle and it's operation and parts. Then go on a building binge.
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:56 AM   #5
Mancid Rilk
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Thanks for the great input thus far! I wouldn't be buying parts per se at the gun show, just an actual rifle. I'm not wanting to build a custom rifle until I get more familiar with using my AR, but I think that'll change soon enough

The only thing with the colt you linked is that it isn't a flat top? Or can the top A2 rail (maybe don't know what I'm talking about here, haha) be removed for ironsights to "co-witness".

Do you think I'll be able to pick up this model of AR at a show for any cheaper than online?
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:15 AM   #6
Mancid Rilk
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What do you think of this model? https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/13228

Pros and cons Bushmaster vs the Colt. .what kind of difference in accuracy could I expect between them at 100, 200 and 600 yards?

I've read a little about the rifling twist, what is the advantage/disadvantage to a 1/7 vs a 1/9 or 10?

And how would you classify the colt's barrel? Light, medium, heavy?
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:21 AM   #7
Zhillsauditor
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>I've read a little about the rifling twist, what is the advantage/disadvantage to a 1/7 vs a 1/9 or 10?

Generally, a lower twist rate favors a heavier bullet. A heavier bullet carries more energy--so it hits harder and resists the effects of wind better.
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:22 AM   #8
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There are name brand AR rifles on the market now for $500 and up. If you're not a competition shooter or plan to do some prairie dog shooting, a 16" carbine will provide you with a lot of enjoyment. For just recreational shooting, most any AR is adequate since a failure is only a slight problem.
I have AR's from several makers and quite a few conceived in my workshop all of which are reliable and accurate. I would advise buying a complete rifle from a known entity like a local shop so that any problem can be addressed locally. I don't advise a newbie "building" his own rifle but many have done that.
Consider the first rifle as a learning tool to which you can add as your experience increases since that's the greatest asset of the AR platform-interchangeablity and availability of aftermarket parts.
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:54 AM   #9
Mancid Rilk
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http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

What do you think about this series? The phrase 5R rifling was used. .is this just marketing or does it matter?

Also, is this even a complete rifle, am I missing something? :

http://www.jetguns.com/sw-mp1522-22l...und-p-837.html

I plan on target shooting and possibly hunting application. A long time ago I used to shoot competition .22s and did pretty well, I'd like to use this as sort of a way back into competitive shooting. I don't need ridiculous accuracy but under 2" MOA would be nice.
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Old November 8, 2011, 09:06 AM   #10
pilpens
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If new to firearms, then stick with 5.56 unless there is a known need for bigger caliber like hunting or long range shooting.
5.56 is a lot cheaper than 308.

I would look at:
1. BCM and/or Spikes Tactical upper
2. Spikes Lower or build lower with 2 stage trigger.
3. Also consider Palmetto State Armory - no experiecne with them but looks OK.

checkout aimsuplus.com for Spikes.

A 16" standard mid-length barrel would be my choice for range/paper fun + 1-4x scope for accuracy.

Maybe 1/8 or 1/9 twist based on my BCM 16" SS medium weight mid-length upper (1/8 twist) that shoots 62 grain ammo very well and a Remington 700 SPS tactical (1/9 twist) that shoots 55 grain really well (1" at 100 on my good day).


If you decide 308, then go bolt action like Remington 20" SPS or LTR -- nice with known good accuracy.

Last edited by pilpens; November 8, 2011 at 09:13 AM.
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Old November 8, 2011, 09:14 AM   #11
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Another thing is most mil spec AR-15s parts are compatable with most other mil spec AR-15s whereas AR-10s are not.
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:02 AM   #12
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For just paper punching, you'd be better served with the .223 of sort. If i were to go get one today, the Colt 6920 would get my money. Also, for a new shooter, that'd be a great starter, i think.

Once you're hooked, plan on working your way thru all the different actions and barrels and ulimately you will end up building an M1A. Loads of fun to shoot and tune. After getting to know your .308, you'll be spending more for ammo but you won't care 'cause it feels good.

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Old November 8, 2011, 11:10 AM   #13
doofus47
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Quote:
5.56 is a lot cheaper than 308
As a relative new-see to the ar world, I don't have a lot of definitive answers, but I do have theories:
1. Practice will make you a better shot and more comfortable with your rifle. Buy what you can practice with more often. Between your choice of calibers, I say, "the answer is 5.56".
2. "Don't sweat the details when making your first choice." Take advantage of the flexibility of the platform: I don't have any specific make/model recommendations, but if you have a solidly built lower, there's no reason you can't swap out uppers and change calibers to 7.62x39, 6.8, 6.5Grendel, etc very easily. You can do this also with the larger AR-10 platform, as well. The point is: you're not married to anything that you can't easily change with the AR platform. Buy a highly recommended make/model and you probably will be a happy gunner. Buy a troublemaker, and you can always swap out the problem child part (upper, optics, handguard, etc).

happy shooting.
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:16 PM   #14
Mancid Rilk
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You've convinced me to go .223, and i'm leaning towards the Colt 6020, can anyone tell me the differences between the Colt and the M&P15? What justifies the $200 difference?
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:43 PM   #15
ejhc11
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I like Palmetto Armory - I own three of their lowers. Their LPKs are are well done, the single stage trigger pull is crisp, no slack. All milspec with quality parts.

Here is a pkg. that all you need is a rear sight. $599 plus shipping and your DROS
http://palmettostatearmory.com/8923.php

My Palmetto carbine
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...ARCQBFinal.jpg

My Palmetto standard
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...pletedARLR.jpg
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:59 PM   #16
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It pretty much doesn't matter what type of lower you get for an AR. Except the trigger. Get a good trigger regardless of what AR Lower you choose.

What makes an good or bad AR is the upper. The top target trigger found on target grade ARs (service rifle) it the Geissele. It will cost you much more then the lower, but will be well worth it.

Several good uppers out there. I like White Oak for my AR I use in Service Rifle Matches.
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:15 PM   #17
tAKticool
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I hate to say it but gist go with Bravo Company USA. Man they have such an assortment of awesome Ars. I used to be Anti cause they got so popular so quick and all dheeple claimed them the bee all end all.


But eternal damnation if I could not LOVE to choose between a BCM 14.5 Midlength carbine, a Recce 16 , , or Mk 12 SPR. MAN they got so many sweets I'll get AR diabetes gist browsing their selection n
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:40 PM   #18
Mancid Rilk
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Anyone care to compare the Colt 6920 to the Palmetto armory model in the post above? I honestly can't tell the difference and there is a $400 price golf, there must be somewhat of a difference?
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Old November 9, 2011, 01:39 AM   #19
blacksky
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Spending the least money possible is a goal but I don't want junk parts either

Buy a Smith & Wesson M&P 15OR you won't regret the purchase and you can count on top quality parts, machining, rifiling and fit and finish. Along with a lifetime warranty from an American company. Then you can add to it what you want.

Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Optic Ready Carbine Part: 811003

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

Average retail price on this Carbine is $800. Get one!
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Old November 9, 2011, 08:27 AM   #20
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancid Rilk
Anyone care to compare the Colt 6920 to the Palmetto armory model in the post above? I honestly can't tell the difference and there is a $400 price golf, there must be somewhat of a difference?
That PSA M4gery is a super deal at $599. It has all the super secrets mil-spec code words. Seriously, it's a very nice rifle with a full mil-spec construction. I'm tempted to order one at that price
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Old November 9, 2011, 10:07 AM   #21
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i was going to recommend the 6721 Tactical, for your heat concerns there is no cut in the barrel as with the M4, but when you said .308 that eliminates this excellent upper/rifle, i have one and consider it to be one of the very best there is for home defense, target, or hunting. TacSol makes a matching .22 dedicated upper which i also own and swap them over for my intended purpose.



as recommended by another poster, if you truly do "...have limited knowledge when it comes to weapons" then i also say be careful of gun show "know it alls" you can easily be ripped off.
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Old November 9, 2011, 10:28 AM   #22
pturner67
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just get a mil-spec Spikes Tactical ST-15 for $860 and you'll be grinning ear to ear

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...les-c-113.html
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Old November 9, 2011, 11:17 AM   #23
Iron Man
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I started with an Olympic Arms carbine. I free floated the barrel, added a quad guard, upgraded the front sight and gas tube, installed a fore grip, Rock Island rear adjustable sight, and threw on a light and EOTECH sight for good measure. It shoots as well as any other AR out there.
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Old November 9, 2011, 02:42 PM   #24
blacksky
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If You're Serious About It Build Your Own!

If You're Serious About It Build Your Own! You need to learn the in and outs of owning a A$ or M$ type of semi-auto. No better way than to buy the tools, the parts, and set up shop on your work bench, kitchen counter, the wifes dining table and have at it... It's all down hill from there... LOL!

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468190
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Old November 9, 2011, 04:34 PM   #25
tAKticool
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BPowderKEg hit it on the head when he said be careful of the gun show know it alls but even WORSE and MORE DANGEROUS are the Internet Forum know-uit-alls!!!!



These guys are absolutely the blacktical tacticool enemies of the state and will cause you eternal damnation, internal corrosion, herpy derpy simplex 223, and foot fungus of the cordite smokeless powder and blank cartrige blues!!!! Run don't walk RUN from the keyboard commando know its alls and don't pass go, DOn't Collect TWo Hundred free rounds!!
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