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Old November 7, 2011, 09:34 PM   #1
dieselbeef
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357 rifle ammo vs 357 pistol ammo

ive got a few 357 revolvers.
i also have a henry and a winchester in 357 leveraction
i have been told by some who reload not to use handgun ammo in a rifle. dif powders/bullets etc.
whats the scoop. henry dont specify. they stack in the tube under the barrel and they dont even warn against using fmj . since dropping it on the point of the previous rd might make it go off??
btw the henry is brand new..aint been shot yet..man its beautiful tho!
the beatup old winchester shoots anything

hornaday lever action ammo? good for ahandgun also?

see where im going

whats the diff if i use one ammo for both besides poss a compromise on the accuracy precentage?

i want to carry one rifle and one handgun in the same caliber....everything is so friggin complicated

gary
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Old November 7, 2011, 09:54 PM   #2
PunchinPaper
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If you buy factory ammo you can use it in both rifle and revolver, unless it's a custom Type "RIFlE ONLY LOAD".
If you handload you should call the bullet maker and ask their Techs, they will point you in the right direction.
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Old November 7, 2011, 09:59 PM   #3
Budda
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yes. Hornaday leverevolution is fine in a proper handgun.
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Old November 7, 2011, 09:59 PM   #4
oneounceload
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Quote:
Henry RAC Firearms are designed to function with a variety of brands and types of factory-manufactured ammunition in the appropriate caliber but not all ammunition produces the same result. Henry RAC
recommends that after you read and understand this manual, you go to the range and fire different ammunition
which is appropriate to the caliber of your firearm. Once you find the ammunition which functions best, keep
using it.
Quote:
If you purchased a model H006M it is chambered for the .357 Magnum
cartridge. The .38 Special cartridge can also be fired in this model.
That is from the Henry owner's Manual - since it is safe to fire 38 Special, shooting 357 handgun ammo should work fine
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Old November 7, 2011, 11:52 PM   #5
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BTW.. I was working up a load for a rifle in 44mag, when I noticed the difference in powder charges between rifle and pistol in my manual for the same weight bullet. It didn't really make sense to me why the handgun charges were heavier. So I called Sierra and their tech told me the reason is "the cylinder gap on a revolver vents off some of the gas and the rifle don't " light bulb I should have known!! Just thought I'd share that with you. That's probablly what the reloaders you mention were talking about.....
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Old November 8, 2011, 12:11 AM   #6
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Any .357 load safe in a handgun will be safe in a rifle of the same caliber, (in proper working condtion, of course).

Where the issue comes in is in the bullets used, and handloads. Typically, rifles will be able to handle loads that are overpressure in some handguns. And the velocity imparted by the rifle barrel on the regular handgun ammo can drive some bullet designs faster than they are intended for, with sub optimum downrange performance.

Let me give you an example from personal experience; friend drops by with a box of 125gr JHP .357 ammo, he "thinks" might be rifle loads, and wants to chronograph a couple and shoot some to see.

We put togther a 6" S&W M19, a 6" S&W M28, a 6" Desert Eagle (w/polygonal rifling), and a Marlin 1894 carbine (18? 18.5"? barrel).

Fired the M19 first (his gun, his ammo, his chooice, and him shooting). Result? First round is a double tap (and to this day, I don't know how that happened). Last round over the chrony said 1620fps!

We decided that was enough for the M19! opened it up, four unfired rounds fell out, and two very stuck cases required careful application of a small mallet to remove.

Next the M28. Six rounds, avg 1670fps. Cases resisted extraction slightly, then popped out with increased finger pressure.

6 Rnds through the Desert Eagle avg 1720fps, Functioning was ...postive.

And through the Marlin carbine, avg 2200fps!

Definately rifle only (or heavy frame revolver/DE) ammo. Now, lets take a look at what happens to a 125gr JHP when its moving about 50% faster than designed for. It virtually explodes when it hits something. Just like a .22 varmint bullet. Severely reduced penetration and massive surface wounding is the result. Not what the load is meant for, and quite possibly resulting in failure to perform its intended function. For instance, cleanly taking deer. A bullet operating within, or at least not too far outside its design envelope, might well penetrate shoulder bone and reach the vitals, while one going too fast might not.

Heavier bullets don't suffer from this quite as much, and non expanding bullets aren't bothered by going too fast, so matching the ammo fired from a carbine to the task is critical for best results.

As to the issue of tubular magazines, there is no bullet made for use in the .357 or .38 Spl that has a pointed enough bullet for this to be a risk. Other than the specialty KTW armor piercing round (which was never available for private sale - no matter what Hollywood claimed), nothng has a "sharp" enough, or hard enough point to detonate the primer of the round ahead of it in a tubular mag. Hornady Leverevolution has a pointed plastic tip (soft, compared to metal) and poses no risk in a tubular mag.

Each gun is different in what it likes to shoot best, and a given pistol load may not shoot well out of a carbine, accuracy wise, but that's not due to the fact that it is pistol ammo.
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Old November 8, 2011, 12:15 AM   #7
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Interesting what the Sierra tech said about the differences in ther loadings.
AFAIK "rifle only" ammunition in handgun cartridges ended with WWII.
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Old November 8, 2011, 12:45 AM   #8
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The reloaders may have meant not to use powders designed for handgun cartridges in a rifle cartridge.
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:18 AM   #9
dieselbeef
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if i recall what he said it was about the burn rate of the powders. not so much the wieght. im shooting a 6'' barrel on the pistol also.

so if i was to use the hornaday to satisfaction in the rifles then i would be okay to try it in the pistol and if results were okay then id say that would be a good all purpose 357 rd.
look like its gonna take some range time to get it narrowed down.
i ususlly buy the federal 125 but i havent shot them in the rifles at all.
thanks
gary
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Old November 8, 2011, 09:05 AM   #10
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Boy, I wouldn't want a rifle and pistol in the exact same caliber/cartridge if one can only be used in a rifle. That would be a definite "no-go" for me.
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:55 AM   #11
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I agree completely. To create loads that can only be used in a rifle nullifies the point of having a pistol-caliber rifle or carbine, at least as I see it. But ammunition makers did that for years with the .44-40, .38-40 and .32-30 and maybe others. But in those case, they actually started life as rifle calibers but were quickly adopted for use in revolvers. I don't know when the so-called hi-speed loadings appeared but those were supposed to be no-nos in revolvers. But after the .30-30 (mainly) appeared, there was little reason to hot-rod one of those, that is, if you could manage to get a new rifle. Anyway, sooner or later you could make a mistake if you had a revolver that would take one of those hi-speed rounds.

I would even go so far as to suggest thinking hard before getting both a .44 magnum and a .45 Colt. Either round is perfectly fine the way they come and I definately don't suggest hot-rodding a .45 Colt, and while we're at it, leave the .44 special alone, too. But the point is, the .44 magnum and the .45 Colt look almost the same if loaded with the same style bullet but they are hardly interchangeable. Sooner or later you show up with a .44 revolver and a box or two of freshly loaded .45 Colt ammunition. None of you have probably done a careless thing like that but I have.
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Old November 8, 2011, 01:34 PM   #12
Don P
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Quote:
That is from the Henry owner's Manual - since it is safe to fire 38 Special, shooting 357 handgun ammo should work fine
What he said. Its not like there won't be enough pressure to eject the brass.
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Old November 8, 2011, 01:53 PM   #13
dieselbeef
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im also assuming and will probly check with henry but they dont spec either way...so im guessin a pistol slug will be fine and also vice versa
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Old November 8, 2011, 02:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTrain
... I agree completely. To create loads that can only be used in a rifle nullifies the point of having a pistol-caliber rifle or carbine,
Thank you! I see the .45 Colt folks always want to have a PCC combo and then tune the rifle cartridges out of the safe range for the handgun. I just don't see why that makes any sense! If that was the goal, then go with a true rifle instead of a PCC.
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Old November 8, 2011, 02:33 PM   #15
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You should be fine if you use factory ammo. As 44 AMP implies, this is generally only an issue with .357Mag if you're using hot-rod handloads. FWIW "Rifle Only" loads have typically only been marketed for 2 modern cartridges: .45 Colt and .32-20 Winchester (aka .32-20 WCF).

Handloaders began pushing the capabilities of the .45 Colt when stronger handguns and lever rifles became available for it about 30 years ago. (This cartridge historically hadn't been used in rifles because of extraction problems with weak 19th-century case rims; the availability of stronger cases in the late 20th century prompted gunmakers to begin making rifles for it.) The hotter .45 Colt loads are often referred to as "Ruger Only" loads in reference to the Ruger RH and SRH revolvers.

Ammo manufacturers and handloaders used to make hot-rod .32-20 "Rifle Only" loads to increase its effective range back when it was a very popular varmint-hunting cartridge in the early 20th century. These loads weren't suitable for most contemporary revolvers, and ammo makers would label them as such. However, modern small-caliber rifle cartridges such as .223Rem have almost totally eclipsed the .32-20 in popularity for small-game hunting, and these loads are rapidly becoming a historical footnote. Most commercial "Rifle Only" .32-20 loads were withdrawn from the market 25-30 years ago.
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:25 PM   #16
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Any revolver round safe in a revolver is safe in a lever action rifle EXCEPT, made sure you don't use any bullet that puts a tip against the primers of rounds loaded into the tubular magazine. SWC is OK, HP is OK, RNFP is OK.
If you reload keep your loads close to the over all length of factory ammo or it may not feed through the lever gun.

dieselbeef, when you load that Henry, if it's a real Henry/clone/replica, always slowly lower the follower down on to the rounds in the magazine. If you have a 'Henry Big Boy', never mind.
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:46 PM   #17
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The only interchangeability problem I have encountered is using factory 44Mag pistol loads in a Ruger Deerhunter semi-auto carbine. It would not cycle with the fast-burning powder. The Ruger was given to me out of frustration by the owner...I reloaded some safe H110 loads for it, and it has cycled reliably ever since.
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Old November 9, 2011, 02:23 AM   #18
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Interesting comments . At one time Norma made two 44mag loads , one for handgun and one higher pressure for rifles. Some Garrett 44mag loads are too long to feed in rifles . Just offered some Corbon 44 mag DPX to a friend for his Marlin rifle -he read the label -' Not for Rifles' ! The DPX has a large HP that I wouldn't think would hit the primer of another round in the tube but perhaps there's another reason.
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Old November 9, 2011, 02:19 PM   #19
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The main difference between commercial ammo designed for handguns and ammo designed for rifles is the burn rate of the powder mixes used. Hand gun ammo generally uses faster burning powders to get the most bullet speed out through a short barrel versus rifle ammo that uses slower burning powder to take advantage of developing higher velocities through the longer barrel.

Any commercial ammo should work just fine in a revolver of or a rifle that is stout enough to handle the load (i.e., any modern rifle designed for handgun calibers and any medium to heavy framed revolver designed for the caliber). Small frame revolvers may be susceptible to "crimp jump" when loaded with high powered ammo, whether or not the ammo is designed for rifles or hand guns.

Of a very small concern to me, with nothing to back it up, is the constant "smacking' of the bullets toward the cartridge that would happen in a tubular magazine each time the next round is loaded. This could, conceivably "push" the bullet a little bit further into the cartridge, and, conceivably, increase the instantaneous pressure when fired. Probably very unlikely, but with the capacity of pistol ammo in rifles (8 – 10 rounds of .357) there will be many “smacks” near the end of the magazine and harder smacks on those rounds nearer to being loaded (tighter magazine spring and more mass behind each “smack”) . You hand loaders might want to put special care on crimping your handgun loads that might be used in a lever rifle.
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Old November 9, 2011, 02:29 PM   #20
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Any round properly crimped will not have bullet setback from recoil/feeding in a tubular magazine. Particularly in .357, where the recoil is very light, comparatively speaking.
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Old November 9, 2011, 06:52 PM   #21
dieselbeef
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its henry big boy, and a smith or taurus 357.

i would like to knwo also what ya think of shooting the hornady lerevolution in the pistols.

not knowing the dynamics its kinda hard to find this kinda info.

do i call the manuf of the gun or the rounds.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:10 AM   #22
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While generally speaking faster burning powders are used in pistol ammunition, it is may actually be possible to achieve a higher velocity, if that's important, with a slower burning powder. It is true, though, that the powder may not burn completely or may increase blast or flash because of powder burning after the bullet has left the barrel and in a sense, it is inefficient. But that's measuring efficiency the wrong way if higher bullet velocity is what you're after. Faster burning powders may produce excess pressure in achieving the same bullet velocity, which is the critical difference.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:36 AM   #23
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As Lee Jurras said about "submachine gun only" 9mm, it does not make sense to SLIGHTLY improve the ammunition for one gun and make it poor or unwise in another with the same chamber.

I do not know of any "rifle only" or "pistol only" .357 magnum ammunition or "recipe" and would not buy or load it if I saw any. Interchangeability is the whole point of a rifle in pistol caliber.

I think the Hornady rubbernose will do fine in lever action and revolver both and if they didn't think so, they would have labeled it.
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Old November 10, 2011, 01:43 PM   #24
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I use the same ammo in my revolvers and carbines in both .357 and .44 calibers. Only concern is the use of handgun powder puff loads that produce less than 900 FPS and that's because of the possibility of a stuck bullet in the longer rifle barrel.
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Old November 12, 2011, 11:13 AM   #25
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Excellent thread! Several points mentioned which I had not considered, using only factory .357 ammo in my Ruger SP101 and Marlin 1894C.

I think I may pick up some of that Hornady Leverevolution to have something that was specifically designed for rifle use.
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