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Old November 6, 2011, 05:27 PM   #26
alloy
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I'd want a lawyer, but if a glove compartment isn't an actual compartment....I don't know what is.
I'd think the glove compartment or console compartment is exactly what they are talking about, which is why a lawyer would make sense.
Maybe Henrico has it's own law.

Quote:
As of July 1, 2010, a concealed handgun permit is not necessary when carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Transporting.shtm
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Old November 7, 2011, 01:34 AM   #27
youngunz4life
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not only that Alloy and to further my obvious opinion on this case which I admit is speculation:

this cop would've done something differently depending on the person he pulled over. I am not speaking about the obvious of if he pulled over the Chief's Dad as an example...I mean in the broader sense. I feel like he did a diservice to this person who was just trying be honest and go about his business in this busy life we live. Tie goes to the runner, and he needed to cut this guy loose if he had nothing on him. Otherwise, he needs to treat everyone exactly the same.

By the way, I agree with your post also.

now, people make mistakes and aren't perfect, I have to give the LE that. However, I am definately not buying it. OP did the right thing though(really had no choice) - just go to jail and then go to court//really nothing else he could or can do
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Old November 7, 2011, 02:47 AM   #28
Justice06RR
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To the OP, that is very unfortunate that you got arrested for something that would seem legal - if it does not specifically say in the state statutes that the firearm has to be locked.

Lawyer up ASAP. That arrest will also go on your record so you might need to have the lawyer take care of that so if you are ruled to be improperly arrested, they can expunge it from your record. Good luck
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Old November 7, 2011, 03:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
-Magistrate released me because he said I wasnt doing anything wrong or illegal.
-I still have court for carrrying a concealed weapon
I'm confused by these two points. If you weren't doing anything wrong or illegal, then why do you still have "court"?
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Old November 7, 2011, 04:01 AM   #30
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yes Dr Starngelove, we def need an update.

...only been one post in his TFL career, but I am confident we can get another sometime sooner than later
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Old November 7, 2011, 12:09 PM   #31
brickeyee
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Quote:
Maybe Henrico has it's own law.
Under preemption they cannot.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
Quote:
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.

The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.

B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.

C. In addition to any other relief provided, the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging (i) an ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section or (ii) an administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.

(1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923; 2009, cc. 735, 772.)
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Old November 7, 2011, 12:21 PM   #32
Don P
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That's also the reason why I no longer keep my wallet in my right back pocket when I carry, the gun being at the 330 position... nervous this makes the police man.
Thats a big 10-4. A real good way to get youself shot.
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Old November 7, 2011, 01:41 PM   #33
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I'd file s complaint with the officer's supervisor. Secured can mean a velcro strap, it doesn't require a lock.
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Old November 7, 2011, 06:25 PM   #34
Peteydoug
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I have court on the 10th for a pretrail, I am getting a court appointed lawyer ( Broke college student)
As for my defense, i've found this link explaining the word "Secured" from a case just like mine:
http://virginialegaldefense.com/Stuf...ed_defined.PDF

And this is a response from a user on a different forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenchCoxe
Quote:
Originally Posted by totes6
If I recall correctly the original Bill that went before the State Legislators actually included the provision that the container must be "locked". Before it was signed into law the language was changed from "locked" to "secured".
You are correct. See my comments upthread a little ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by totes6
If you can find the original bill and show that to the Judge and compare it to the law that was signed. That will prove the legislative body's intent of the law, where they actually removed the provision of being locked.
Here is the legislative history of the bill:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB885

On the legislative history page you will find links to the senate amendments and the governor's recommendation, showing how the senate changed "secured" to "locked" and then the governor recommended changing it back to "secured" before he would sign it.

You also will find links to the bill in its various forms as it passed through the legislative process - specifically:

Here is the bill as prefiled Jan. 13, 2010, in which it used the word "secured":
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+ful+HB885

Here it is as enacted by the house and senate, after the senate amended it to replace "secured" with "locked":
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...01+ful+HB885ER

Here it is after the governor sent it back with the recommendation to change "locked" back to "secured":
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+HB885ER2

And the final act, as enacted and signed by the governor, using "secured":
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0841

It should be pretty darn clear that the General Assembly considered requiring the container or compartment to be locked, but then rejected that requirement in favor of requiring it to be "secured." And this also makes it clear that "secured" is not necessarily 'locked."
More updates after my pretrail, thanks guys!
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Old November 7, 2011, 06:35 PM   #35
alloy
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That's some good stuff right there.
If I can jam a handgun in between/amongst all the maps and papers in my glove box, and still close it....it's more secure than any foam lined gun case.
Good luck!
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Old November 7, 2011, 06:57 PM   #36
youngunz4life
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good luck+thanx for the update. you're in good shape. when those guys talk and/or chat with you before the trial just be respectful but affirmative that you want this dropped. you'd be surprised how they can tell you they'll make it go away, yet you actually lose. let us know...tell judge you're in college if it goes that far
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:43 AM   #37
brickeyee
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Quote:
if a glove compartment isn't an actual compartment
The issue is what "secured" means.

Virginia does NOT USE legislative history.

A long time ago the VA Supreme ruled that only the text of the law AS PASSED would be considered.

It shows the Legislatures final decision, and if they wanted more conditions they would have included them.

It is an overall weakness in our state system.
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:53 AM   #38
alloy
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The way I see it....in my glove compartment is secure.
It's also the only compartment inside my car, unless the door pockets are to be considered, large enough to hold a handgun....but they aren't secure.
What are you looking for?
It appears the judge may find that a glove compartment's use, is the very definition of secure that is possible as required, I can wait to see.
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Old November 9, 2011, 01:43 PM   #39
brickeyee
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You would think with all the attorneys in both houses of the state legislature they would have defined the term in the law explicitly and clearly.

They all know very well the Virginia Supreme Court rejected 'legislative intent' a long time ago.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:11 PM   #40
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If the laws are well defined the lawyers will go broke because there will be nothing to argue about. And what will the judges do without lawyers to entertain them, watch soap operas?

John
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Old November 10, 2011, 07:34 AM   #41
Don P
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Quote:
You would think with all the attorneys in both houses of the state legislature they would have defined the term in the law explicitly and clearly.
Bureaucrats at there finest. Just like the wonderful Pelosi stated about the health care bill we'll pass it so we can find out whats in it.
Here in FLA when CCW issued permits by the state became law they overlooked the school issue in this way. If you walked across the street from a school OR were in your car and drove past the front of the school you were in violation of the CCW law with regards to distance from a school and a concealed firearm. They had to amend the laws they passed because they realized the screw up. It happens, its life. As in general how many times have any of us expressed ourselves and were NOT clear and concise in every way.
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Old November 15, 2011, 10:27 AM   #42
GI Sandv
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Quote:
That's also the reason why I no longer keep my wallet in my right back pocket when I carry, the gun being at the 330 position... nervous this makes the police man.
This is also why I keep my dummy wallet in my back pocket, and the real one up front. I can reach for the fake wallet and am right there if I need to draw...which I would try to avoid if a fake wallet were the only loss.
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Old November 15, 2011, 11:09 AM   #43
yosemiddysam
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What if my fake wallet would normally hold the same amount of money as my real one lol. I hope all goes well for you man. I know how the Communist wealth of Va Court System works.
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Old November 16, 2011, 08:42 AM   #44
johnbt
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That's for insulting my home state. Jerk.

John
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Old November 28, 2011, 08:46 AM   #45
user
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Attention, Peteydoug:

Ok, court appointed may be good, bad, or average. The odds are not in your favor. It's your job to contact your attorney well before trial, but make sure you don't get railroaded. You have an absolute right to a whole, new trial with a jury in the Circuit Court if you're found guilty in the General District Court, so don't let anyone tell you that you have to accept a plea bargain. Make sure your lawyer knows early on that you intend to plead not guilty and you want him to be prepared to go to trial. If you're found guilty by the GDC Judge (by the way, a magistrate in Virginia is not a "judge", and is not even required to be an attorney), then call me.
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Old November 28, 2011, 11:26 AM   #46
brickeyee
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Quote:
I'm confused by these two points. If you weren't doing anything wrong or illegal, then why do you still have "court"?
Magistrates cannot vacate charges.

If you have an attorney have them try and contact the Commonwealth's Attorney and have the whole thing 'nolle prossed.'

At the least your attorney should buttonhole the CA before the case is called.

Many of the CAs will talk to another attorney they see and ask what case they are there for if they see them in court.
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Old December 8, 2011, 04:44 PM   #47
Peteydoug
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Okay, a much needed update. I had court earlier today and I was found guilty, sentenced to 30 days in jail(All Suspended), and a $100 fine. So I went ahead and appealed it. The judge looked confused and it was the prosecuter that pushed her to find me guilty. This was not what I was expecting and i'm quite frustrated with this ordeal. My court appointed lawyer will be there at the appeal but i'm thinking about taking another route. I might just write a letter to the Governor, and who knows from there on. I really want to be entitled to some sort of restitution, for being thrown in jail, found guilty, having my gun taken away, and running around to the courts.
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Old December 9, 2011, 04:08 PM   #48
brickeyee
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Quote:
My court appointed lawyer
Are you off your F'ing gourd????

Did you go to court without your own attorney?

No wonder you were "found guilty, sentenced to 30 days in jail(All Suspended), and a $100 fine."

GET AN ATTORNEY.

This is not the place to use an appointed attorney.

You probably did not have a court reporter for this 'trial' and that alone causes difficulty on appeal.

The governor is not going to do anything, and you are NOT going to get "some sort of restitution, for being thrown in jail, found guilty, having my gun taken away, and running around to the courts" without suing the police department.
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