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Old November 4, 2011, 12:57 PM   #1
Patriot86
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Three Sacramento Sheriff's busted for sale of "illegal" handguns

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/...,4218243.story

Quote:
Three Sacramento Sheriff's deputies who work at the Rio Consumnes Facility are under investigation by ATF for alleged sales of illegal firearms.
Quote:
This is what the investigation entails. Officers are allegedly buying handguns that only law enforcement officers can buy here in California.

That's because civilians can only buy the guys that have 10 bullets per magazine. Officers can buy the firearms that have more than 10 - like 12, 15, and 17 bullets per magazine, sources tell FOX40


Unless true "criminals" were involved in this case, by that I mean gang members and the like I think this is another example of the extremes people will go to inorder to get around insane gun restrictions and bans.

Q though for Cali experts: Are semi-auto's sold in California modified so they cannot accept "high capacity" magazines or is it simply that they are sold with a maximum 10 round magazine? If they are simply unmodified firearms sold with 10 round magazines I can think of much easier ways to get around this law than going through a local LEO.

Last edited by Patriot86; November 4, 2011 at 01:02 PM.
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Old November 4, 2011, 01:41 PM   #2
Young.Gun.612
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My question is why is the ATF involved if it only involves a state imposed mag capacity restriction?
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Old November 4, 2011, 01:44 PM   #3
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Old November 4, 2011, 02:11 PM   #4
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Go HERE for the complete text of California firearms laws. The portion relating to magazines is on page six.

Quote:
It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, cause to be manufactured, import into the state, keep for sale, or offer or expose for sale, or give or lend, any large-capacity magazine. (Penal Code § 12020(a)(2).)
Large capacity magazines defined on page 10.

Quote:
A large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds, a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm, or a .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device. (Penal Code § 12020(c)(25).)
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Old November 4, 2011, 08:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
This is what the investigation entails. Officers are allegedly buying handguns that only law enforcement officers can buy here in California.

That's because civilians can only buy the guys that have 10 bullets per magazine. Officers can buy the firearms that have more than 10 - like 12, 15, and 17 bullets per magazine, sources tell FOX40
Wait . . . Law enforcement officers are buying firearms that only law enforcement officers are allowed to buy? Unless there's more to the story, I don't see the problem.
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Old November 4, 2011, 08:29 PM   #6
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The problem is, Spats, that common citizens are not trustworthy with hi-cap magazines. It's a sign they are imminently unstable and likely to kill rampantly, because CA legislators "know" (as do other savants) that will be the result. These wonderful people are saving us proles from ourselves.

Now, police, they need whatever they can get to suppress "the threat". To include motor officers in my area carrying M4 carbines on their bikes, 30 round mag inserted and, no doubt, more available. Suspects, law-abiding until found out by government, need suppression. Criminals don't care about laws (which is why they used to be called "outlaws"). So they get hi-cap magazines which police have to have to even the field.

Citizens? Why should they be on an even field? They are the sheep we of the political class manage.
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Old November 4, 2011, 08:34 PM   #7
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That is one horribly written news item. It's like reading the poorly translated instructions for a piece of flat pack furniture from China.

Quote:
his investigation involves not only Sacrmento deputies, but at least one Sacramento police officer, and one cop from Roseville police.
So one is a police officer & the other is a cop??? Is there a difference?
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Old November 4, 2011, 10:09 PM   #8
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If you read other articles on this, you'll see a phrase about large quantities of handguns being sold. That likely explains the feds involvement. That and the crooked cops dealing guns.

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Old November 4, 2011, 11:11 PM   #9
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I want to hear the details before I pass judgement. Was this a few cops selling "illegal guns" to friends, or were they selling them to anyone and everyone.
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Old November 4, 2011, 11:39 PM   #10
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gwah....that article is just wow...You'd think someone who gets paid to write for a living could do slightly better. On topic, any handgun thats not on The List is ineligible for sale in California to average Joe/Jane Citizen(there are some exemptions). In other places they get sold with whatever capacity magazine they were intended to have, in California 10rds max. So it's tough to tell whether they were purchasing off list guns, or just whatever with 10+ capacity magazines. Since I believe both options are available to LE.
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Old November 5, 2011, 07:40 AM   #11
Spats McGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrySchell
The problem is, Spats, that common citizens are not trustworthy with hi-cap magazines.
Oh, I get that, Harry. I was being a smart-aleck, which may not have come across. I figure that the officers are being investigated for allegedly selling the LEO-only models to civilians, but the article never actually comes out and says that. All it says is:
Quote:
Three Sacramento Sheriff's deputies who work at the Rio Consumnes Facility are under investigation by ATF for alleged sales of illegal firearms.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox40News
Officers are allegedly buying handguns that only law enforcement officers can buy here in California.
Edited to add: When I first read it, my thought was that the first quote only indicated that the officers were involved in the sales, but didn't tell me which side of the sale they were on. The article certainly could have been clearer.
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Old November 6, 2011, 01:34 PM   #12
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Besides the initial news report of the investigation, there is this article from Friday at Fox News, which seems to indicate that this is an ATF operation.

More info coming to the light with this.

Quote:
Agents are looking into whether officers from different agencies used their position in law enforcement to purchase weapons that are not available to the public, then sold them to make a profit.
The above needs a bit of explanation, for those of us not familiar with CA law.

CA has a Roster of Safe Handguns, that CA FFLs may sell to the general public. This law exempts all police officers. They may buy (most) any handgun they want. The law even allows these "exempt" persons to sell their off-Roster handgun to a non-exempt person (note that all firearm sales must go through a CA FFL).

Since the ATF is (presumed) to be leading this investigation, we can safely assume that those officers under investigation are selling these off-Roster handguns to the public. That makes them a business, selling without a FFL. Under CA law, if you sell 6 or more handguns a year, you are a business and you are required to have a FFL.

So this appears to be an investigation about not having an FFL to do business (speculation: selling off-Roster guns for a profit) and not so much about straw sales.
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Old November 6, 2011, 02:03 PM   #13
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Perhaps this is the preferred manner in which police firearms end up on the street?

VIDEO LINK
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
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Old November 6, 2011, 04:38 PM   #14
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How does BATFE have jurisdiction when these are not federal gun laws but rather state gun laws that were being broken?
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Old November 6, 2011, 04:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
An ATF spokeswoman told The Bee late Thursday that federal charges may be coming at some point.
Soundn't they have an idea of what federal charges they would be bringing in the case before the arrests?

It sounds like a witch hunt. Sounds like state law was broken, somehow BATFE was allowed to investigate it instead of state police. After BATFE got access to the officer's houses, they're looking to see if any federal charges can be levelled.
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Old November 6, 2011, 05:18 PM   #16
Al Norris
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... Or its a PR move.
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Old November 6, 2011, 07:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
How does BATFE have jurisdiction when these are not federal gun laws but rather state gun laws that were being broken?
Selling guns without a federal firearms dealers license would do it.
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Old November 7, 2011, 04:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Selling guns without a federal firearms dealers license would do it
Selling '6 or more handguns a year' without a FFL would do it.

Fixed it for ya thallub.
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Old November 7, 2011, 10:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Unless true "criminals" were involved in this case, by that I mean gang members and the like I think this is another example of the extremes people will go to inorder to get around insane gun restrictions and bans.
These sorts of infractions can indeed make regular people and cops into true criminals.
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Old November 7, 2011, 10:59 AM   #20
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"Selling '6 or more handguns a year' without a FFL would do it."

There is no limit on how many of your own guns you can sell in a year according to the ATF. You can look it up.


"Soundn't they have an idea of what federal charges they would be bringing in the case before the arrests?"

You really think they're stupid, don't you. Sheesh.

John

Last edited by johnbt; November 7, 2011 at 11:10 AM.
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Old November 7, 2011, 11:16 AM   #21
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http://www.news10.net/news/article/1...riffs-deputies

Let's see, officers from several agencies sold assault weapons and ammo according to the ATF. The plot thickens.
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Old November 7, 2011, 01:20 PM   #22
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Again, remember this is CALIFORNIA we are talking about. A glock that holds 17 rounds would probably be called an "assault weapon". This case is starting to sound like these officers selling guns that are otherwise "restricted" in California for a profit..that is a business so I can see the violation there for lack of an FFL.
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Old November 7, 2011, 02:00 PM   #23
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The assault rifle quote was from a BATFE employee, not a California employee.
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