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Old October 29, 2011, 03:47 AM   #1
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303 in a 32 H&R case test proposal! - Bravery required

Read the whole thread before you jump to any conclusions. This is meant to be a fun project and I'm inviting any one that has an open mind. Try to move it foreword not drag it down.

I know my dimensions and diameters so I know it could theoretically work but I lack all capacity to test it. Is there anyone with a 2.75" cobra derringer in 32 H&R Magnum, seasoned knowledge of loading and nerves of steel to help me out.


Load Idea:

303 British (.312) bullet: long length, light weight, soft point or polymer (hollow point only if nothing else works), boat tail if possible.
32 H&R Magnum case
A powder load that is powerful, safe, and mostly controllable.

The reason why will be explained if this experiment holds water.

Last edited by a guy that can; October 29, 2011 at 10:35 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old October 29, 2011, 08:00 AM   #2
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How will it fit in the cylinder?
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Old October 29, 2011, 08:17 AM   #3
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Please reread post .
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Old October 29, 2011, 09:04 AM   #4
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Before you do any crazy experimenting, let someone with Quickload to run the numbers. So my guess is that a 180 gr bullet in a cartridge with a 20,000 cup limit from a 2.75" barrel will have all the performance of a 1985 4 cylinder Camaro.
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Old October 29, 2011, 09:20 AM   #5
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Sounds like another "300 Whisper" attempt. Heavy high BC rifle bullet at pistol velocities.

Why not use a modern revolver designed for the 327 Federal Magnum? That can handle much more pressure and you can trim the 327 Fed brass back to 32 H&R length to seat that long old bullet a little deeper.

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Old October 29, 2011, 09:33 AM   #6
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Why, the 32 H&R is subsonic with a 100 gr bullet to begin with. The 327 sounds like a more viable candidate.
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Old October 29, 2011, 12:46 PM   #7
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Thanks guys but reread the post. I don't have the resources or time to find out for myself.
I'v read about the 300 whisper projects and that is not what this is about, It can and would be preferred powerful.
Its about OAL. (over all length)
Against my will apparently the reason behind this needs to be explained.
I was inspired by the GunWebsites Youtube video with the bond arms CA legal derringer and before you roll your eye's and logoff let me explain.
It was ridiculous yes but it had a point, you could see it was loaded!
I looked and looked for a rifle bullet that could fit a short barreled derringer.
32 H&R was the only one I could find with a rifle bullet (303 Brit) that could fit.
The 327 fed isn't chambered in any derringer I can find but your right some one could trim it and it would handle pressures better.
So unless you know a better readily available, long, non-cast bullet then I'm sticking with the Idea.

Last edited by a guy that can; October 29, 2011 at 03:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old October 29, 2011, 01:04 PM   #8
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There are lighter bullets than the 180 grain.
Hornady, Barnes, Sierra and Speer have 150 grain options.
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Old October 29, 2011, 02:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
2.75" cobra derringer in 32 H&R Magnum
Shame on me for not reading carefully!
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Old October 29, 2011, 03:12 PM   #10
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That's alright coyote you gave me an idea.

The gun I want to see it in is the 2.75" barrel Big Bore Cobra derringer but if any one that makes this wants to see its ballistics, try it out in a single shot pistol like a Contender and post it here on this thread!

Have fun!

Last edited by a guy that can; October 29, 2011 at 05:20 PM. Reason: fun
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Old October 29, 2011, 04:41 PM   #11
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More slowly (let me know if I need to use big letters): The whole goal of these cartridges is to send a as heavy as possible round as close to 1000 ft/s as possible, to maintain some decent energy for as long as possible.
The 32 H&R can barely do that with a standard 100 gr bullet if you look at the load tables. Any high-BC round (and guess what, for those the heavier the better is true too) will reduce the available powder volume to the point that you cannot safely get anywhere near the speed of sound, especially not in a short barreled gun. Even with the reduced concern for OAL in a long chamber gun like a derringer you still have to get the bullet far enough into the case to get acceptable seating.
If you really want to play with a silenced derringer, start with this one in 30 carbine, at least you have some case volume to play with, and a decent pressure range.
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Old October 29, 2011, 04:44 PM   #12
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So, you don't actually care about ballistics, or the cartridge even functioning in the pistol?

You're just going for appearance...
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Old October 29, 2011, 05:08 PM   #13
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I don't care about the level of sound I'm not doing this for a whisper cartridge or for a wildcat.
1. I want it to be safe (most important)
2. I want it to work
3. I want it to preform to its maximum potential (SAFELY!) even if that means its only subsonic. (I love ballistics)
4. I don't know how far it needs to go for proper seating that is one of the reasons for the test.
5. Its about looks and functionality, that why I asked if someone could test it in the big bore cobra and a contender.

Last edited by a guy that can; October 29, 2011 at 05:20 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old October 29, 2011, 06:30 PM   #14
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So, you want some one else to use their components, their pistol, and their body parts to test your theory?

Seems the least you could do is put your own time, money, and firearms to use to test your own ideas.
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Old October 29, 2011, 06:36 PM   #15
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TANSTAAFL.
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Old October 29, 2011, 06:56 PM   #16
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"A guy that can"

There's some funny buried somewhere in this thread!
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Old October 29, 2011, 07:45 PM   #17
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Cranky that was uncalled for.

You make it sound like I'm trying to kill someone.

If you read back I said seasoned reloading experience and I'v said safe three times.

If someone got hurt truing this then I would be devastated, they obviously didn't have the experience and they weren't being safe by starting with lighter loads and working their way up.

If you set up a test with a ransom rest and a string you can safely see the results.

I understand that musher but its voluntary and collaborative. I know guns are serous tools but they are also an entertaining pastime and to some of us its a lifestyle.

Good one Sevens but its a screen name not a qualification, its not that I wont (I want to!) its that I can't!

So if a great re-loader sees this, makes some test batches, posts the loading info, sends them to someone that lives to gauge ballistics, he test them in a contender, posts the results, sends the best ones to a guy with a big bore cobra to see how they look, he test the rounds and posts pictures of the round peaking out the barrel and the results, and boom a big fun collaboration test between a bunch of guys that have never even seen each other.

So if you reload, have a positive attitude and time on your hands it could be a fun project.
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Old October 29, 2011, 10:31 PM   #18
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Determination

Nay saying didn't build the great wall.

Edison found 10,000 ways not to make a light-bulb.

they laughed at the guy that invented underwear too.

If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all!

Constructive criticism welcome

give tips, advice and support not excuses.

If you are trying to kill this thread you will fail I will fight you tooth and nail. (Hay that rhymed!)

Have fun dang it!
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Last edited by a guy that can; October 29, 2011 at 10:39 PM.
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Old October 29, 2011, 11:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Cranky that was uncalled for.

You make it sound like I'm trying to kill someone.

If you read back I said seasoned reloading experience and I'v said safe three times.

If someone got hurt truing this then I would be devastated, they obviously didn't have the experience and they weren't being safe by starting with lighter loads and working their way up.

If you set up a test with a ransom rest and a string you can safely see the results.
I never said you were trying to kill, or hurt someone. And, yes, I did see where you typed "safe" multiple times.

I am just wondering why you are so set on some one else trying your idea for you. Time and resources can be a little tight for everybody at times, but I would think you would have a little more interest in your own concept, and have more willingness to put it into reality.

Maybe you could share something more of what you expect out of this setup.......... I am still a bit confused.

You posted you wanted it to work to its "maximum potential".........are you talking velocity? Energy delivered at the muzzle? Energy at 25 yds? Highest pressure before a rupture? Most accurate groups?

Or did you just want to see bullets projecting out the barrels?
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Old October 29, 2011, 11:30 PM   #20
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Flaw 1: Trying to get some one else to do all the work.

Flaw 2: Trying to get some one to load ammo for someone else.

Flaw 3: Trying to get another person to shoot ammo loaded by some FACELESS nameless dude on the interwebz.

Flaw 4: Making excuses why you can't do it. If you have time to watch idiots on youtube and read idiots on gun rag websites and be on an internet gun forum then you have the time to put towards this project.

I read threw this thread 3 times trying to figure out exactly what you want this new cartridge to do. You say maximum performance in a small weapon. That is about it.

It would be one thing to just toss around ideas about doing this. You are wanting people who don't know you from a homeless guy begging on the street corner to put time effort and money into something for YOU.

These are just my observations from what I have read so far in this thread.
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Old October 29, 2011, 11:32 PM   #21
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I'm in college right now so time and money are short.

The idea as a novelty load that allows you to know your derringer is loaded

Then people asked about performance so I asked about testing that in a contender and posting the results (speed and calculated energy)

I would like the energy to be able to ward off an attacker if necessary. (But honestly the bullet sticking out of the barrel would scare me off.)

According to the others it will be very quiet so that would make it an interesting plinker.

If it became popular and went commercial it would allow classic derringers labeled for that specific caliber to be legal in CA (my old home) (Its a loaded chamber indicator!)

It would reduce range accidents that come from not remembering if its loaded.

If it doesn't preform defensibly then the range accident problem will be its only solution point.
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Old October 30, 2011, 12:24 AM   #22
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This is a project for friends that trust each other I'm not asking people to send or receive live rounds to or from total strangers that was an example.

I'm a 19yr old College student from MI with a good head on his shoulders and an affinity for guns.

the goal is to eventually have a defensive load for a CA legal derringer (the bullet is the required loaded chamber indicator) Or a plinking load if its not up to it.

I don't want money or notoriety all that would end up with the guy that loads it.
He will be the real hero.

(OK maybe a little credit were its do but nothing beyond that!)

This is an idea not a skam or a sales pitch get off my back
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Old October 30, 2011, 01:11 AM   #23
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You do realize that the whole CA legal derringer video was a joke about CA's absurd gun laws right?

On a more serious note, if you wanted to use a spritzer-type bullet in a .32 caliber pistol cartridge, one designed for the 7.62x39 cartridge would seem like a better candidate to me. You've still got the proper diameter bullet, but the lighter 123-125gr weight is more likely to safely give you halfway useful ballistics if used in a .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal Magnum.
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Old October 30, 2011, 01:37 AM   #24
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Yes I know it was a joke but it was an inspiring joke.

I am aware that the CA legalization is a long shot but so is the whole idea!

History shows that its the craziest ideas that work.

Computers were predicted to fail from day one, guess what your looking at?

Conventional wisdom told the guys that made the 408 Chytech (supposedly the most accurate bullet ever developed) that they needed to make it bigger than the 50 bmg to make it better at longer distances. Ha! That's a good one!

If you pardon the pun, long shots go farther.

On the bullet issue (according to FrankenMauser) the current pick may already have problems contacting rifling and the 7.62x39 is (.311), (.001) thinner than the 303 Brit so it may cause more problems. Thees things are finicky (and it may work better) so i could be wrong (I hope I am so the pressures are easier to deal with) Thank you for the help Webleymkv.
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Old October 30, 2011, 08:05 AM   #25
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can, even ignoring the sound level, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the spitzer bullet will give you maximum performance due to its external ballistics. This would only be true if you are shooting from a rifle with a large volume high pressure case. Your could than optimize the round to deliver good long distance performance with your spitzer-boat tail (it still wouldn't make any difference at short distances where spitzer rounds have no advantage).
But you're trying to build something to be shot from a short barrel with a low pressure round with very limited case volume. You never get the spitzer bullet to the speeds required to take advantage of the properties due to your unfavorable internal ballistics.
The third "performance" issue is that the gun would be pretty useless as self defense weapon (the main use of derringers) due to lousy wound ballistics. Rifle bullets, even soft points and other easily expanding constructions, need a certain velocity on target to expand. At the slow speeds you can achieve with a short barrels you'd be shooting the equivalent of a fmj regardless of what bullets you used.
If you really want to continue the thought experiment, start with a well defined goal (like maximum energy out of a derringer-length barrel at 100 yards). Then use JBM's Trajectory calculator and Hodgdon's Reloading database to get an idea if it's feasible.
After that you can propose a load that would fulfill your requirements and ask someone to run it in Quickload. If Quickload confirms the load performs as predicted at reasonable pressure, than someone might actually be willing to whip up some cartridges and test them for your. But do your homework first, there are plenty of resources on the web.
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