The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 25, 2011, 08:46 PM   #1
Scouter19D
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21
Maintenance difference between TSX and SST?

So just wondering, as I've never shot an all copper round like the Barnes TTSX, but does it require more rigorous cleaning than say a Hornady SST? Figured it would leave more copper deposits, but couldnt say for sure having never used one. Anybody?
__________________
Springfield M1A National Match
Springfield XDm .40 S&W
Scouter19D is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 08:47 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,336
I shoot the TTSX in my 7mm-08 Encore. It doesn't seem to leave any more deposits or require any more cleaning than any other bullet.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 08:59 PM   #3
Scouter19D
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21
one other thing, why are they more than double the price of other tipped premium rounds? And even their new match burners.... are they that good?
__________________
Springfield M1A National Match
Springfield XDm .40 S&W
Scouter19D is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 09:22 PM   #4
Hog Buster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2009
Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana
Posts: 763
“Are they that good”

That probably remains to be seen, but I’m sure they cost a few pennies more to produce, so cost more. Then again Barnes knows that hunters will buy anything, no matter the price.
__________________
Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson
Hog Buster is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 09:53 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,336
Well, I bought the TTSX for two reasons.

One, because I'm only shooting deer and I like light and fast. There is no big game bullet in 7mm lighter than the 110gr TTSX.

Two, I saw a deer shot at 40 yards with a 140gr Core-Lokt Ultra from a 7-08 and the bullet shattered on impact. Killed the deer, for sure, but 40 yards is very average distance around here and I want a bullet that will hold together. This is a single incident and certainly not statistically significant. Still, it concerns me.

I asked Barnes about shooting the 110gr TTSX in a rifle because velocities could exceed 3,300 fps with a 24" barrel. They said the bullet is tested (every batch) to hold together at speeds "well beyond" 3,300 fps and if ANY bullet fails the whole lot is scrapped. They also said expansion will be reliable down to 1,800 fps.

I have only killed one deer which was a button buck at 40 yards. It was a "Boom!", flop, dead situation. Expansion seemed good based on the exit hole the size of my thumb. Internal damage was excellent. Likely, most any bullet might have done it. However, most any bullet won't get rifle velocities in a 15" barrel.

So, all things considered, for me, yeah it's worth it.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 10:04 PM   #6
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
I won't shoot them because of the insane prices.

They can kiss my......
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 10:06 PM   #7
jason75979
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2009
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 100
I may be wrong, but, aren't most bullet jackets made of copper? So shouldn't they "fowl" about the same? This is a question kinda.
jason75979 is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 10:09 PM   #8
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome22 View Post
I won't shoot them because of the insane prices.

They can kiss my......
Well... I guess I don't shoot all that much. I bought one box last year, like $37, developed my load, sighted in the gun, hunted and still have 1/2 the box. Bought another box so I don't run out, that one will last a good 3+ more years. So, for me, the cost is like $15 a year where "normal" bullets would be maybe $8. I'm not too worried about $7 a year.
If I shot 100 rounds a month, no thanks, but for hunting, the cost difference is irrelevant.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 10:16 PM   #9
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
It is a matter of price gouging. It is just the principle of it.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 10:54 PM   #10
Fusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2010
Posts: 388
Yep, from what I've read these bullets have great performance and I'd like to try them, but I just can't justify paying the price. If I only shot half a box a year like the above poster, I'd be shooting them. However, I often shoot 50-70 rounds a month. Sometimes less, sometimes more, and doing this I find them too expensive for me. I've been happy with the performance of the SST's and have been using them, but I know some guys don't like their performance on deer.
Fusion is offline  
Old October 25, 2011, 11:29 PM   #11
Stick_man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2008
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 241
Quote:
It is a matter of price gouging. It is just the principle of it.
I don't believe that to be the case. Have you checked the different metals prices lately? The Barnes bullets are solid copper. Copper is a LOT more expensive than lead. Their pricing is a little higher than other bullets, but not too much different from the other "premium" bullets. They are NOT in the business of price gouging, any more than Nosler, Scirrocco, or other high end bullet manufacturers.

My experience has shown that the TSX and TTSX bullets are finicky, but once you have your load dialed into what your gun likes, they are indeed match grade and will shoot as well as anything else out there. I have also found very consistent weights as well.

In my opinion, the Barnes bullets are overkill for deer. I use them for elk where I want great weight retention and max penetration/expansion. For deer, most anything will work. No need to spend the extra amount on a "premium" bullet for the thin-skinned deer or pronghorn.

Due to the design of the TSX and TTSX, you can actually achieve the same velocity with less pressure than standard bullets. They have less "bearing" surface making contact with your bore, so there is less friction and less fouling.

Are they worth the extra cost? For some applications (elk, moose, bear, etc) I would definitely have to say yes. Of course, I realize that is a matter of personal preference. What I see as a great deal may be seen as a total ripoff to somebody else, and vice-versa.
Stick_man is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 12:30 AM   #12
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,405
Quote:
aren't most bullet jackets made of copper? So shouldn't they "fowl" about the same?
No, most bullet jackets are made of gilding metal, a copper alloy that is harder and more brittle, and less "sticky". Solid copper bullets foul barrels more easily because of their stickiness, but the grooves in the newer Barnes bullets helps with that. The old Barnes bullets did not have those grooves and fouled terribly.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is online now  
Old October 26, 2011, 06:13 AM   #13
jason75979
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2009
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
No, most bullet jackets are made of gilding metal, a copper alloy that is harder and more brittle, and less "sticky". Solid copper bullets foul barrels more easily because of their stickiness, but the grooves in the newer Barnes bullets helps with that. The old Barnes bullets did not have those grooves and fouled terribly.
Aahhh, okay.
jason75979 is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 09:35 AM   #14
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,336
Compared to many other "premium" bullets, the TSX/TTSX line is not particularly expensive.

Swift, North Point and Speer Grand Slams are close to the same price or more, depending on the bullet.

Nosler Partitions are equal or more, Woodleigh's are more. Nosler E-tips, Sierra Game Kings and the Hornady GMX line are all similarly priced.

So, yeah, there are cheaper bullets but the Barnes pricing is not out of line with other high-end bullets.

Whether ANY of them are worth the price is another question but the Barnes is not comparatively over-priced.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 10:17 AM   #15
PawPaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
Nosler Partitions are equal or more, Woodleigh's are more. Nosler E-tips, Sierra Game Kings and the Hornady GMX line are all similarly priced.
Be careful there, Peetz. Gamekings come in boxes of 100, where most of the others you listed come in boxes of 50. Looking at MidwayUSA, I see .30 cal Gamekings listed at $24.79 per 100, where the Partitions are listed at $32.69 per 50 and the Barnes at $34.99 per 50.

Because the largest game I shoot is the smallish whitetail deer in these parts, I shoot a lot of Gamekings, even during the off months. I find them to be wonderful bullets, but they're not nearly as expensive as the "premium" lines.

I don't agree that Barnes is gouging the shooting public. If I were planning a trip out West to shoot something bigger, I'd probably buy a couple of boxes of Partitions, a couple of boxes of Barnes, and work up loads for them. The difference between a 30 cent bullet and a 70 cent bullet is negligible when you're talking about the difference between success and failure.
__________________
Dennis Dezendorf

http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com
PawPaw is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 06:02 PM   #16
snuffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 2,757
Quote:
I may be wrong, but, aren't most bullet jackets made of copper? So shouldn't they "fowl" about the same? This is a question kinda.
As scorch said, guilding metal is copper and zinc, the percentage of those 2 metals differs from one manufacture to another.

Solid copper bullets are made for several reasons. Concerns with any lead in the meat, and California demands lead-free ammo in some areas.

Solid copper bullets are extremely difficult to make. The machinery is expensive and wears out sooner , so the bullets HAVE to cost more. Use of a Barnes bullet for general shooting would be VERY expensive. But use as a once-in-a-lifetime-trophy-hunt would be a small extra expense.

It amazes me how people spend huge amounts of money on the hunting trip, lodging, clothes, then go out and buy the cheapest ammo they can find.

There are other choices for mono, or solid bullets being made. Hornady's excellent GMX,(Guilding Metal eXpanding), bullet is a poly tipped bullet that displays the same type of expansion as the Barnes. Nosler has the E-tip, which is similar to the Hornady GMX.

I once said I would never buy a Barnes bullet. I didn't think there was a need for the deer I hunt. However I just got a box of the 62 grain Barnes .223 TSX-BT for loading in my bushmaster. IF I ever would want to use it for deer, I'd want a bullet that would NOT fragment, or blow up on a rib or other bones. They were a bit more per box than other .223 bullets, BUT only had 50 bullets/box.

I tested those in the test tube expansion media, they performed as expected, and BETTER than several other heavy-for-caliber-bullets.
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog

They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?
snuffy is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:36 PM   #17
cornbush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: The retarded place below Idaho
Posts: 1,377
If you shoot alot it probably isn't worth it, but for me they are.
If you go through a box of Barnes bullets or two a year and shoot some cheaper stuff too it really isn't that bad.
With Barnes I am paying for the utterly reliable performance and accurate delivery, they are worth the price...........confidence in your bullet is just as reassuring as confidence in the rest of your setup.
__________________
The best shot I ever made was an accident
cornbush is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:43 PM   #18
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPaw
Be careful there, Peetz. Gamekings come in boxes of 100,
Hm. You're right... I could have sworn there was a listing for 50 but I don't see it now. Knock on GameKings retracted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbush
....confidence in your bullet is just as reassuring as confidence in the rest of your setup.
I agree. Small price to pay to remove bullet performance from the equation.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 08:47 PM   #19
Scouter19D
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21
I guess for 60 or so rounds a month, I can't very well justify the use of Barnes. Not when an AMAX gives such incredible accuracy, and SST's are dirt cheap and acceptable out to 300 yards. Still curious about their Match Burners, if they would run with the AMAX. I've seen one posted review, but nothing that leapt out and said run and switch!
__________________
Springfield M1A National Match
Springfield XDm .40 S&W
Scouter19D is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11262 seconds with 9 queries