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Old October 22, 2011, 04:20 PM   #1
Murrdock
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.30 Carbine for Whitetail

Well, I've been way to busy with school or work to sight in my .270 this year, and since I only have 2 days to hunt (opening day and Thanksgiving) I've decided to say frig it and just hunt with either my .35 remington, m1 carbine, or 12 gauge with 00 buck in one barrell and slug in the other.

I know the gun I'm most accurate with is the m1 carbine, as I'm killing paper out to 250 yards with the open sights (good for me).

I know people hunt with .44 mags and .357s, and the fact that the .30 carbine has more energy than both of those means it will kill a deer.

The only problem is that I'll be hunting the brush and clearcuts with my buddies where I could have a 200 yard shot, or 15 feet (it's happened).

I just want to know how bad you think these bullets will deflect off branches, and also if there would be enough energy left at 250 yards to kill a 190 lbs. buck with a descent shot.

Thanks.
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Old October 22, 2011, 04:58 PM   #2
ligonierbill
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To answer your last questions, all bullets deflect in brush and no, you will not have enough energy even at 100 yards. Yes, the 7.62x33 shades the .357 in muzzle energy, but it falls substantially behind a typical .44 mag hunting load. That's not the biggest problem, however. The bullets for the .30 carbine are generally not designed for hunting. It's more than energy. You say you have a .35 Remington? Why not take that? Under 200 yards, I can't think of many better deer rounds.
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:10 PM   #3
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The sights on my .35 Remington are atrocious. I've been meaning to have the local gunsmith put some peeps on it, but I don't have alot of time.
I can't hit anything past 100 yards with the stock sights, but I might end up taking it anyways.

I thought the carbine would be a killer out to 200 yards, but with only 700 lbs. of energy at 100 yards, I am doubting this now... I do have some hollow points for it as I wasn't planning on hunting with FMJ, but I'm starting to lose confidence with it.
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:12 PM   #4
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I would use the M1 carbine, loaded with soft points, for deer in the same situations I would use a hunting handgun. Not for 200yd shots.
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Old October 22, 2011, 09:19 PM   #5
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Do you have the self control to refrain from shooting over 100 yards? If so, then take the 30 carbine and use it. Otherwise, spend 1/2 day checking the sights on a REAL deer rifle and the other 1/2 day hunting. The 30 carbine has neither the bullet weight or the velocity to be effective on deer over 75-100 yards.
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Old October 22, 2011, 09:57 PM   #6
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The sights on my .35 Remington are atrocious.
Get better sights.

I installed an XS Sight Systems LeverScout Mount and a 2.5x pistol scope on my daughter's 30/30 ..... took about 30 minutes. 6 rounds to sight it in. She was bustin' milk jugs full of water at 150 yards on Sunday, and she's 15...... I'm sure you could manage 200 yards with such a set-up.
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Old October 22, 2011, 11:23 PM   #7
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The .30 carbine was illegal to use for deer in our state, along with 9mm luger and many other specific cartridges. For decades, IIRC, there was a 90 grain minimum limit for deer, regardless of caliber. Nothing smaller than 6 mm was legal.

I don't think that a 30 carbine is a good deer gun. I don't recommend it on deer, and the army rejected it for use on people. Those soft points are hardly performance ammo, btw.

Coyote or raccoon, nothing bigger, IMO.
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Old October 23, 2011, 08:29 PM   #8
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For comparable bullet weights, the 30 Carbine has as much energy at 100 yards as a 357 handgun has at the muzzle, so the idea that it doesn't have enough energy at 100 yards is not accurate. That being said, the M1 Carbine, like any firearm, has its limits and I set them (for me) at 100 yards for whitetails based on available energy and my ability to place shots with it in the field.

I took two does with mine last year, both at around 50 yards, and neither one took a step from where it was hit (neck shots). The one bullet I did recover was a soft point that had mushroomed to over half an inch - excellent performance by any standard.

For the hunting you described, I would put Skinner sights on the 35 Remington (I'm assuming you are referring to a Marlin 336) and take that in the event something nice comes along at more than 100 yards.

On a side note, the US created the 30 Carbine cartridge and the M1 Carbine expressly for use on enemy personnel, and the military was impressed enough with its performance that it ordered more than five million of them. I believe both are still in use today in the Israeli military, among others.
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:10 PM   #9
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the 30 Carbine has as much energy at 100 yards as a 357 handgun has at the muzzle,
Damning by faint praise, are you not?

...... and it is only valid if you exclude contender or heavy Ruger loads.........

It is still not a legal rifle cartridge in Nebraska..... not by nearly half. Some say that the law uses an arbitrary standard, but it was developed with input from hunters, and it keeps a lot of yahoos from maiming deer with something they thought looked "cool" at a gunshow or estate sale.
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:13 PM   #10
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On a side note, the US created the 30 Carbine cartridge and the M1 Carbine expressly for use on enemy personnel, and the military was impressed enough with its performance that it ordered more than five million of them. I believe both are still in use today in the Israeli military, among others.
They liked them because they were cheaper to make than a 1911 (and WAY CHEAPER than an M1!), and easier to train cooks, clerks, and truck drivers to use effectively than a pistol..... not to mention more effective.....
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Old October 23, 2011, 10:05 PM   #11
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Damning by faint praise, are you not?
Not at all. The 357 is very popular handgun hunting cartridge and for good reason - it works.

Quote:
...... and it is only valid if you exclude contender or heavy Ruger loads.........
No argument there. And it is really outclassed by the 357 in a rifle.

Quote:
It is still not a legal rifle cartridge in Nebraska..... not by nearly half. Some say that the law uses an arbitrary standard, but it was developed with input from hunters, and it keeps a lot of yahoos from maiming deer with something they thought looked "cool" at a gunshow or estate sale.
While I'm sure the intentions were good, the law does nothing to stop yahoos from maiming deer. A yahoo with a 300 Win Mag is still a yahoo. Just out of curiosity, does Nebraska allow bow hunting?
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Old October 23, 2011, 10:36 PM   #12
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Ohio permits handguns with 5 inch barrels in 357mag. I have no doubt that an M1 carbine used properly would be an excellent deer gun here...were it legal.
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Old October 23, 2011, 11:13 PM   #13
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I've killed deer with a M1 carbine. First rifle I ever killed a deer with in fact. But and impressive deer stomper it's not. First I agree with those who say keep the shots 100 yards and in. And second if there is any way to get a better sight on the 35 Remington that would be a much better choice.

Quote:
They liked them because they were cheaper to make than a 1911 (and WAY CHEAPER than an M1!), and easier to train cooks, clerks, and truck drivers to use effectively than a pistol.....
Exactly. It was intended as as a weapon for the guys behind the front lines that could be fired more accurately at more distant targets than a 1911 pistol could be. And they didn't want to waste M1 Garands on guys that weren't likely to get into any heavy combat.
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Old October 23, 2011, 11:49 PM   #14
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Just out of curiosity, does Nebraska allow bow hunting?
Yes ...... but strangely enough, there does not seem to be any yahoos endorsing the use of one of those 12-18lb draw weight little kids bows for deer, "so long as you keep the range under 10 yards" ...... why is that?
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:39 AM   #15
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time?

Zero the .270. Or take the .35. You must have some time, you're plinking with the carbine, right?

All bullets deflect off branches.
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Old October 24, 2011, 08:31 AM   #16
Art Eatman
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Looking at what the OP has available, my opinion as a carbine owner with decades of experience is that it's the worst possible choice that could be made.
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Old October 24, 2011, 09:25 AM   #17
jrothWA
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Have experience with M1 Carbine...

IF you can take a shot and PLACE IT correctly, then consider it.
If in heavy brush/tag alder, DON'T.

Use the commercial 110 gr hp ammo from Winchester or Federal.

[Think S&B makes some, not sure.]

Smooth / polish the feed ramp of Carbine to minimize stutterring of the soft-nose ammo.

Know two others that use the Carbine, one from tree stand took two deer,
another used for Wisconsin deer drive.

What 's the .35Rem., a lever action?? you can quickly mount a scope if a 336, if a 94 then not so quickly. Or consider a rear peap sight like the Williams "Fool-proof" or 5D.

Good luck, chose wisely.
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Get better sights.

I installed an XS Sight Systems LeverScout Mount and a 2.5x pistol scope on my daughter's 30/30 ..... took about 30 minutes. 6 rounds to sight it in. She was bustin' milk jugs full of water at 150 yards on Sunday, and she's 15...... I'm sure you could manage 200 yards with such a set-up.
I prefer open sights on a brush gun, but after I get peeps installed on the .35 I'm going to get a scope on see through mounts for 200 yard shots (eventually). I dinked around all summer saying I would install peeps in the fall, but I failed to realize how little time I would have. If I could keep my guns in the dormitory, I could easily find time to tinker with them, but they have to be kept at the campus lock up.

Quote:
The .30 carbine was illegal to use for deer in our state, along with 9mm luger and many other specific cartridges. For decades, IIRC, there was a 90 grain minimum limit for deer, regardless of caliber. Nothing smaller than 6 mm was legal.
I know people who take deer with .22 magnums here in Maine, which is perfectly legal. They don't shoot them more than 50 yards, but still legal.

Quote:
it keeps a lot of yahoos from maiming deer with something they thought looked "cool" at a gunshow or estate sale.
The only reason I considered taking the m1 was the fact that I'm very good with military style peep sights, not because it looks cool.
Quote:
Zero the .270. Or take the .35. You must have some time, you're plinking with the carbine, right?
I plinked the Carbine some over the summer, but now I'm back at college and I work on the weekends, so I literally have NO time to sight in the ol girl. I usually don't need to zero it, but this summer we were out shooting in the field and my buddy bumped it as it was leaning against the tailgate which made it hit the ground scope first, but since we were running out of daylight, I didn't shoot it again that day, and haven't since.
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:33 PM   #19
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I prefer open sights on a brush gun,
Have you tried an IER (Intermediate Eye Relief) scope mounted forward..... it takes some getting used to, learning to shoot with both eyes open ..... but with proper stock fit and a bit of practice, you look at the target, mount the gun and the crosshars appear on the target as if by magic..... and you still have peripheral vision...... some folks can hit clays (going away) with their deer rifle like this.

I understand the time constraints .... but you don't have an hour and a box of shells to check zero on that .270?
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Old October 24, 2011, 04:13 PM   #20
jrothWA
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For non-shooting bore siting, try nthis...

Get a "Workmate" table vise set-up.

pad the opening and place rifle inside with bolt removed , close clamp to hold rifle.

adjust table vise/ rifle assembly to allow you to look down the bore at a corner of a house, street light, etc. Anything over 50 yds is good.

the look thru scope anmd adjust the windage to get you "zeroed" sided to side,
then adjust elevation to be above the center of your reference.

Hit a range to finalize as you should need less than 10 round.

I do this to avoid the distractions and crowds at a public range.
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Old October 24, 2011, 07:33 PM   #21
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Good bore sighting tip

and for my .02, if the 270 was sighted in last year and has just set in the cabinet/safe since then, it should only take 2-3 shots to confirm or perhaps slightly tweak the zero for this year.
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Old October 24, 2011, 08:27 PM   #22
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I've decided to say frig it and just hunt with either my .35 remington, m1 carbine, or 12 gauge with 00 buck in one barrell and slug in the other.
Of the three I'd go with the .35 Rem.

.30 M1 carbine will work but is a distant 3rd choice.
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Old October 24, 2011, 08:28 PM   #23
Murrdock
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I stated already (though not clearly) that my buddy knocked over my .270 that was leaning up against the tailgate and I haven't had a chance to shoot it since.

I've decided to take the .35 remington because I know it can kill a deer at 200 yards, so if I misjudge the distance it will still kill efficiently with a good shot placement. When I say I can't hit anything past 100 yards with the .35, I meant hitting paper plates, and the killzone in a deer is much larger than that.
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Old October 24, 2011, 11:05 PM   #24
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Yes ...... but strangely enough, there does not seem to be any yahoos endorsing the use of one of those 12-18lb draw weight little kids bows for deer, "so long as you keep the range under 10 yards" ...... why is that?
Those work just fine if you remember to take the suction cup off.

Youth bows have higher pull weights than that, and are certainly capable of taking deer. Naturally, their effective range is less than bows with higher pull weights.

Google "primitive archery". Homemade bow, homemade string, homemade arrow, dead deer. Yet 30 Carbine won't work?

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Old October 25, 2011, 02:06 PM   #25
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Homemade bow, homemade string, homemade arrow, dead deer. Yet 30 Carbine won't work?
First, no one said it wouldn't work just that it's the worst option of the three. Second, yes people kill deer with primitive home made bows but they typically keep shots under 35 yards with such equipment. Also keep in mind that arrows with razor sharp broadheads do not require the same kind of energy to penetrate deeply and inflict a killing wound. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

I've killed deer with the 30 cal carbine when I was a kid. Broadside shot behind the shoulder will kill them. But, they all ran a long ways after the shot; there was not much bullet expansion, and very sparse blood trails. If it's all you have it will work within its limited range. But the 270 or the 35 rem are both hell and gone better choices.
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