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Old October 21, 2011, 04:51 PM   #1
mrt949
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10 mm 40 sw or 357 mag in a snub revolver

What has the best advantage for a snub revolver 3in or smaller .I have both 357 and 40sw in two types of guns.But looking at the 10mm in the future.Does the 357 mag rule .In revolvers .
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:02 PM   #2
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I'd be happy with a .38 Special in a snub. The .40 or .357 would be ok but a 10mm seems excessive in a snubby.
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:08 PM   #3
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Your selection of revolvers will certainly be much wider in .357 Magnum. Only a handful of revolvers have ever been made in 10mm and .40 S&W. The only revolvers I know of in 10mm are the S&W 610 and 310 Night Guard as well as the Ruger Buckeye convertible SA in 10mm/.38-40 Winchester. The only revolvers chambered specifically for .40 S&W that I know of are the S&W 646 and Charter Arms Pit Bull.

A .357 Magnum revolver is also available in smaller packages and, for the same size gun, can give you 1-2 more shots than a .40/10mm. The smallest revolvers available in .357 Magnum are S&W J-Frames and others of similar size such as the Ruger SP101 and LCR and the Taurus 605 and its variants. .40 S&W, on the other hand, is at its smallest in the Charter Pit Bull which, as I understand it, is about the same size as the Charter Bulldog .44 Special (in between a S&W J-Frame and K-Frame in size and fairly similar to a Colt D-Frame). The S&W 646 was built on the L-Frame making it not particularly small.

A gun the size of a Charter Pit Bull such as the Colt Magnum Carry or S&W models 13, 19, 65, and 66 can be had with 6-shot cylinders in .357 Magnum as opposed to the Charter's 5 and a S&W L-Frame like the 686 can be had with either a 6 or 7-shot cylinder.

10mm revolvers are almost always built on a large frame like the S&W N-Frame. Both the S&W 610 and 310 Night guard have 6-shot cylinders while .357 Magnum N-Frames like the 627 and 327 can be had with 8-shot cylinders.
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:35 PM   #4
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Is there a good reason to choose 10mm over .357 mag in a revolver?

They are pretty close ballistically, but it seems like price and availability make .357 the better choice.
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:38 PM   #5
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At the present time my main cc is a RUGER SP 101.357 MAG or SW MP 40 C. But looking to go to revolvers only due to reliablity . REVOLVERS are better for my household the wife likes them easier to operate.
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:40 PM   #6
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In a snub? It's really hard to go wrong with a .357 Ruger SP101. Plus, the .357 gives you the ability to carry and or shoot .38s.
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Old October 21, 2011, 09:36 PM   #7
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In nineties, back home, my buddy used to have 10mm Korth that was sweetest revolver I ever shot. Think 3" 5 shot Colt Python in 10mm Auto ...
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Old October 21, 2011, 09:44 PM   #8
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I don't see the point of a real intense round in a snub nose unless you're trying to set fire to someone. At least they try, or did try, to load some .357 mag for the short barreled guns.
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Old October 21, 2011, 10:26 PM   #9
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The results at ballistics by the inch: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/results.html you can check out how all three calibers do when a barrel gets down to 2 inches.

All the calibers lose a good bit of velocity as you cut down in barrel length. But
velocity isn't the only story as you can calculate what energy that translates into with another online calculator somewhere....but it's too late in the evening for that (for me anyways)

thoughts: do you want to have to use moon clips?
There are Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel rounds in 38 special, 357 mag, and 40 S&W I think. (optimized for snubbies) I haven't seen any in 10 mm before.
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Old October 21, 2011, 10:36 PM   #10
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While Ballistics by the Inch is an excellent resource, the following from their website should be kept in mind:

Quote:
One note: in every case with the T/C Encore the length of the barrel was measured from the end of the barrel back to the breech face. This is how semi-auto pistols are measured, but revolvers are measured as the length of the barrel in front of the cylinder gap. Take this into consideration when comparing calibers using our numbers.
Because of this, one of their T/C Encore barrels is more analogous to a revolver barrel an inch shorter. For example BBTI's 3" T/C barrels are roughly equal to a 2" revolver barrel.
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Old October 21, 2011, 11:19 PM   #11
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The lack of any gaps really decreases velocity loss.
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
The lack of any gaps really decreases velocity loss.
It doesn't decrease by much. Most reputable sources quote the velocity loss as being ~25-50 fps, which is splitting hairs when you're talking about cartridges with velocities over 1,200 fps.

Here's my thoughts on the original topic:

10mm/.40S&W Plus:
  • Top-end loadings generally use larger and heavier bullets than .357Mag
  • Larger diameter bullets = greater tissue damage
  • Short and fat cartridges reload more quickly and positively with moon clips than long and skinny ones
  • Can share ammo with your automatic pistol
  • Generally milder muzzle blast
.357Mag Plus:
  • Top-end loadings beat 10mm Auto in sheer muzzle velocity
  • Can use .38Spl for practice
  • Somewhat more forgiving to handload
  • Ammo is cheaper and more readily available
  • Cheaper to handload due to smaller bullets
  • Far wider selection of available guns, especially if you don't want a large frame; small-frame 10mm revolvers basically don't exist
  • Cartridges can be extracted easily from a DA/SA revolver if fired without moon clips
  • Generally milder recoil due to lighter bullets
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:31 PM   #13
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Unless you reload, I would not recommend the 10mm in a revolver if a .357 magnum is on the table. .357 magnum is plenty powerful (even more powerful than the 10mm), is more readily available, especially when you are talking about full power loads and is fun to shoot out of a revolver. And of course you have the option of .38's and no need for moon clips. To me, if someone is to have only one revolver and doesn't live in bear country, they should get a .357 magnum.

If you want a 10mm, get a Glock 20!
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:44 PM   #14
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While the .357 Mag is a very versatile round, this statement is inaccurate:

Quote:
.357 magnum is plenty powerful (even more powerful than the 10mm),
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Old October 22, 2011, 05:48 PM   #15
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A 10mm revolver could be pretty handy; for one thing, it can also shoot .40, which is a useful trait.

Another advantage would be the option of loading 200gr bullets to just subsonic. Nice holes, with much less noise and flash than the .357 makes.

I'm not a big fan of the .357 in snub format. It performs better, both in terms of velocity and in terms of noise and flash, from longer barrels.
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Old October 25, 2011, 10:03 AM   #16
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You have far more choices in a 357 Magnum snub nose. However you will probably need a 2.5 - 3" K, L or N frame to get as shootable of a revolver as a 310NG. This means more weight. OR a 386NG/327NG.

In a 10mm/ 40S&W you only have one real choice in a snub nose, a 310 Night Guard.

The Night Guard has several good points, as it was designed as a concealed carry gun from the start.
24/7 XS Tritium Night Sight with plenty of White around it to see in day light.
Cylinder & Slide Extreem Duty rear sight. Great sight picture.
Lite weight in a 2.75" N Frame package. Carrys well in my Lobo Model 1 Pancake.
It has tolerable recoil in a lite weight package with 10mm factory ammo. So far I have shot 10mm/175 Silver Tips, Corbon 135 HP rated at 1450 fps, and Corbon 180gr. Recoil was manageable with all loads tested so far. A reloader could turn the velocity up another notch, however the loads mentioned are probably my idea of top end in an N frame airweight. I was greatly surprised at how manageable recoil was.

10mm VS 357 Magnum. Neither one will be much fun to shoot in a SD situation without hearing protection. Both were rated at around 97% One Shot Stop at one time. The 10mm having a larget diameter is a plus. On the Minus side is availability of ammunition in 10mm. Probably need to order it.
On the other hand it will shoot 40 S&W carry ammo, which should have a better selection than 357 on the shelf.

Realisticly compairing a 386 or 327 in 357 to a 310 in 10mm they are very close to a wash when weight is not an issue.
If you are dealing in a K or L frame steel gun, I prefer the 310 NG for my uses.

My 2 Cents

Bob
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:13 PM   #17
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Next time Igo to the fun shop i'll look at the NG'S
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Only a handful of revolvers have ever been made in 10mm and .40 S&W. The only revolvers I know of in 10mm are the S&W 610 and 310 Night Guard as well as the Ruger Buckeye convertible SA in 10mm/.38-40 Winchester.
Taurus makes a .40 S&W snub now, too.
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
While the .357 Mag is a very versatile round, this statement is inaccurate:
With typical factory loads I think the 10mm is in a different league than the 357. but that said with the hottest ammo out there that I know of (buffalo bore) the 357 is slightly better (energy wise) than the 10mm.

That said I don't think energy is end all be all of bullets. To be honest for 2 legged varmints I think the 10mm is better but for hunting I would take the 357 magnum over the 10mm.
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Old October 26, 2011, 01:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
but that said with the hottest ammo out there that I know of (buffalo bore) the 357 is slightly better (energy wise) than the 10mm.
What .357 product are you quoting?
I looked up some:
Buffalo Bore heavy .357 Barnes:
125 gr. @ 1592 fps (SW 4") = ME of 710 ft. lb.
140 gr. @ 1500 = ME of 699 ft. lbs.

Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm:
180 gr. JHP @ 1350 (out of glock 20) = ME of 728 ft. lbs.

I am pretty sure that some are loading the 10mm way hotter than the 800 ft lb. range (ME).

They are pretty close, but the BB 10mm with the heavier bullet wins out, I think.
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:05 AM   #21
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Night Guard vs Taurus:

Aside from the S&W vs Taurus thing, which I'd rather avoid, the 10mm NG also allows one to use .40S&W ammo. The .40 Taurus will not take 10mm. Issue of overall length.

Just something to consider.
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Old October 26, 2011, 10:32 AM   #22
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In a concealed carry (short barrel) revolver shooting factory ammunition normally considered suitable for self defence we have:

357 Magnum:
Buffalo Bore 125HP @ 1225 fps
Buffalo Bore 125HP HV @ 1700 fps
Buffalo Bore 140HP @ 1150 fps
Buffalo Bore 158HP @ 100 fps
Buffalo Bore 158HP HV @ 1475 fps
Corbon 110 Self Defense JHP @ 1500 fps
Corbon 125 Self Defense JHP @ 1450 fps
Corbon 140 Self Defense JHP @ 1325 fps
Black Hills 125HP @ 1500 fps
Black Hills 158HP @ 1250 fps
Double Tap 125 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1600 fps
Double Tap 158 HP @ 1400 fps
Federal 125 Personal Defense JHP @ 1450 fps
Federal 130 Personal Defense Low Recoil Hydra Shock JHP @ 1300 fps
Federal 158 Personal Defense JHP @ 1240 fps
Federal 158 Personal Defense Hydra Shock JHP @ 1240 fps
Fiochi 124 XTP JHP @ 1250 fps
Fiochi 125 Semi JSP @ 1450 fps
Fiochi 148 JHP @ 1500 fps
Fiochi 158 JHP @ 1250 fps
Hornady 125 Critical Defense Flex Tip EXP @ 1500 fps
Hornady 125 XTP JHP @ 1500 fps
Hornady 140 XTP JHP @ 1350 fps
Hornady 158 XTP JHP @ 1250 fps
Remington 110 Semi JHP @ 1295 fps
Remington 125 Semi JHP @ 1450 fps
Remington 125 Golden Saber JHP @ 1220 fps
Remington 158 Semi JHP @ 1235 fps
Remington 180 Semi JHP @ 1145 fps
Speer 125 Gold Dot JHP @ 1450 fps
Speer 135 Gold Dot JHP @ 990 fps
Speer 158 Gold Dot JHP @ 1235 fps
Winchester 125 JHP @ 1450 fps
Winchester 145 Silver Tip JHP @ 1290 fps
Winchester 158 JHP @ 1235 fps

10mm:
Buffalo Bore 180HP @ 1350 fps
Corbon 135 Self Defense JHP @ 1400 fps
Corbon 150 Self Defense JHP @ 1325 fps
Corbon 165 Self Defense JHP @ 1250 fps
Double Tap 135 Nosler HP @ 1600 fps
Double Tap 155 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1475 fps
Double Tap 165 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1400 fps
Double Tap 180 JHP @ 1300 fps
Double Tap 180 Controlled Expansion JHP @ 1350 fps
Double Tap 200 JHP @ 1250 fps
Double Tap 230 Equalizer JHP @ 1040 fps
Federal 180 Personal Defense Hydra Shock JHP @ 1030 fps
Hornady 155 XTP JHP @ 1265 fps
Hornady 180 XTP JHP @ 1180 fps
Hornady 200 XTP JHP @ 1050 fps
Winchester 175 Silver Tip @ 1290 fps

40 S&W:
Winchester 155 Silver Tip JHP @ 1205 fps
Winchester 165 Supreme Elite Bonded PDXI JHP @ 1140 fps
Winchester 180 Supreme Elite Bonded PDXI JHP @ 1025 fps
Speer 155 Gold Dot JHP @ 1175 fps
Speer 165 Gold Dot JHP @ 1150 fps
Speer 180 Gold Dot JHP @ 985 fps
Speer 180 Gold Dot JHP Short Barrel @ 950 fps
Remington 155 JHP @ 1205 fps
Remington 165 Golden Saber JHP @ 1150 fps
Remington 165 Ultimate Home Defense JHP @ 1150 fps
Remington 180 Golden Saber JHP @ 1015 fps
Magtech 155 Guardian Gold JHP @ 1205 fps
Magtech 155 Sport JHP @ 1205 fps
Magtech 180 Guardiam Gold JHP @ 990 fps
Hornady 155 XTP JHP @ 1180 fps
Hornady 155 TAP Personal Defense JHP @ 1180 fps
Hornady 165 Critical Defense Flex Tip Expanding @ 1175 fps
Hornady 180 XTP JHP @ 950 fps
Hornady 180 TAP Personal Defense JHP @ 950 fps
Fiochi 155 XTP JHP @ 1180 fps
Fiochi 165 Shooting Dynamics JHP @ 1100 fps
Fiochi 180 XTP JHP @ 950 fps
Fiochi 180 Shooting Dynamics JHP @ 1000 fps
Federal 135 Personal Defense Low Recoil Hydra Shock JHP @ 1190 fps
Federal 155 Personal Defense Hydra Shock JHP @ 1140 fps
Federal 165 Personal Defense Hydra Shock JHP @ 980 fps
Federal 180 Personal Defense JHP @ 990 fps
Federal 180 Personal Defense Hydra Shock JHP @ 990 fps
Double Tap 135 JHP @ 1375 fps
Double Tap 155 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1275 fps
Double Tap 165 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1200 fps
Double Tap 180 Bonded Defense JHP @ 1100 fps
Double Tap 200 XTP JHP @ 1050 fps
Corbon 135 Self Defense JHP @ 1325 fps
Corbon 150 Self Defense JHP 1200 fps
Corbon 165 Self Defense JHP @ 1150 fps
Buffalo Bore 180 JHP @ 1100 fps
Buffalo Bore 155 JHP +P @ 1300 fps

Looking over the selection above we have no shortage of great self defense ammunition available for the 357 Magnum, 10mm Auto, or the 40 S&W. Everything listed should get the job done if you do your part. We have everything from reduced recoil loads, to very nasty recoiling loads. They all have a place, thats why they make them.

The Winchester 175 Silver Tip 10mm has been available for a very long time. It is an old design, and not Hi Tech, but at 1290 fps it is still a very good choice for self defense. Of all the ammunition carried by 10mm owners that I know, the Silver Tip is THE self defense load of choice. (Mainly Glock owners)

We have a couple new entries in Snub 40 S&W revolvers. Taurus, and Charter Arms. My local dealer has a Charter Arms 40 in stock. I think the Taurus could be tuned on a little, and made into a fairly good snub at a reasonable cost. It isn't a Smith & Wesson, however Smith & wesson does not make a 2" K frame 5 shot 40 S&W either.

Bob
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:00 PM   #23
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You didn't have a "none of the above" option. I don't care for
anything but standard .38 Spl in a snub nose revolver.
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Old October 26, 2011, 09:05 PM   #24
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38+p special is ALL you need (and most can handle) in a light snub
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Old October 26, 2011, 09:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
What .357 product are you quoting?
I looked up some:
Buffalo Bore heavy .357 Barnes:
125 gr. @ 1592 fps (SW 4") = ME of 710 ft. lb.
140 gr. @ 1500 = ME of 699 ft. lbs.

Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm:
180 gr. JHP @ 1350 (out of glock 20) = ME of 728 ft. lbs.

I am pretty sure that some are loading the 10mm way hotter than the 800 ft lb. range (ME).

They are pretty close, but the BB 10mm with the heavier bullet wins out, I think.
This is from a revolver hence the title and being on the revolver board. That said I would but a Coonan 357 magnum with Buffalo bore up against any 10mm semiautomatic with a similar barrel length, but that would be off topic, the topic was from a revolver.

I really am not picking on the 10mm. I think its a very great round
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