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Old October 23, 2011, 09:17 AM   #76
Lee McNelly
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SITUATION

First mistake pulling behind the other cars
you put yourself in a situation where you could not move they would have blocked you in from behind and in front by their friends good way to take out politions and political enemys
your quick observations and reaction was possibly your saving grace he senced your readiness to confront his actions whatever they may be and didnot want any part of it

pic your locations before you have to use them especailly while getting money in a out of area local comfort zone

be aware and make your own luck
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Old October 23, 2011, 10:40 AM   #77
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Quote:
It's hard to drive your van out of the ATM line with your pistol in your hand, isn't it?
Not at all. I have two hands.
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Old October 23, 2011, 10:48 AM   #78
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Bulletproof vests are hands-free devices.
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Old October 23, 2011, 10:51 AM   #79
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In one of my previous post I address why I couldn't or didn't drive off. Also I have have know of an individual who chose that option and one who also chose to run away and they are both deceased now do to it. I want to start a thread comprised of real "incidents" that have occured to acquaintanc es of mine whole growing up in the detroit area.
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Old October 23, 2011, 11:12 AM   #80
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Pezo, I think you handled the situation just fine. I also think you have handled the less than well considered responses here just fine. I really don't know what else you could have done in the situation. You prepared yourself for the very real possibility that the situation could have escalated out of control, and at the same time effectively de-escalated the situation. Butting into the ATM line was not an intentional act and you fixed it.
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Old October 23, 2011, 01:52 PM   #81
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The place where I bank is in a pretty safe area, but it is only 1 mile from a major highway. I always keep a "floating eye" on my two side mirrors and my rear view when waiting for the teller to get me my cash.
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Old October 23, 2011, 02:32 PM   #82
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"Situational Awareness" should extend to not getting into situations where you cut off a line of cars and have to deal with the consequences.
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Old October 23, 2011, 02:51 PM   #83
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According to amd6547 if you make a mistake intraffic you NEED to deal with the consequences which may include an assault! How many of you really agreee with his (or her) statement. In reality I believe I may have offended amd 6547 with certain wording in my first post and just like the aggressor in my situation he throws logic and under standing out the window.
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Old October 23, 2011, 03:20 PM   #84
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You miss the point, pezo. The point is to follow the golden rule in all your dealings with your fellow man. Sometimes, that means not passing by a line of cars that are waiting for the ATM.
CCW is not a license to be thoughtless and rude...just the opposite.
Your incident seems to say "Gee, sure am glad I was armed when I cut in line at the ATM...But I am a good boy because I did not shoot the large scary african American who objected".
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Old October 23, 2011, 04:02 PM   #85
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You miss the point, pezo. The point is to follow the golden rule in all your dealings with your fellow man. Sometimes, that means not passing by a line of cars that are waiting for the ATM.
CCW is not a license to be thoughtless and rude...just the opposite.
Your incident seems to say "Gee, sure am glad I was armed when I cut in line at the ATM...But I am a good boy because I did not shoot the large scary african American who objected".
Really? Are you un-observent? Or maybe can't read?
I guess if you come in after reading the last few post your qualified to make such a statement.

A mistake that was rectified prevented a serious incendent. No pat on the back was ever requested. Only posting his experience.
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Old October 23, 2011, 04:36 PM   #86
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"Large scary african american man" did more than just "object" sir. He acted threatening and used intimidation. Even after an apology and offering of correcting the issue. You seem to want to ignore this. I find that fact an indication of bias on your part. I assure you sir if it was a " large caucasion man my response would have been no different.
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Old October 23, 2011, 04:37 PM   #87
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No. I have read this sorry thread from the beginning. In fact, I read the original thread before there were any responses. I have followed it from the beginning.
I don't see anything good out of the peaceful resolution of a self created "incident".
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Old October 23, 2011, 05:05 PM   #88
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Obviously the gentleman's conduct was unacceptable. Did you mention apologizing in the first post? I see you thanking him once he informs you that you're in the ATM line, but nothing about "Oh, gosh, I'm sorry for being inconsiderate, I'll pull it around!"

For me, it's every single civil possibility before my hand even touches my weapon.

I don't at all mean to backseat drive. It's hard to articulate the exact context and dynamics of a situation. It's just important to realize you were wrong, too. Less wrong, certainly.
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Old October 23, 2011, 05:06 PM   #89
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It just boggles my mind to see this pure and simple road rage incident blamed on a guy who made a mistake in traffic. There was no incident until Driver #2 decided to make one.

There is no justification in what happened for driver #2 to leave his vehicle and vent his spleen.

Read the definition.


Quote:
In law, assault is a crime causing a victim to fear violence. The term is often confused with battery, which is the actual "touching". The specific meaning of assault varies between countries, but can refer to an act that causes another to apprehend immediate and personal violence, or in the more limited sense of a threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force
Driver #2 committed a prosecutable crime. He committed assault.

Driver #1 committed no crime, and he would have been justified in gunning #2 down like a diseased dog if he had become physically violent.

One more time, let's go back to the beginning. #1 angered #2 by getting confused. #2 left his car, confronted #1, and made him afraid of imminent violence

That, for everyone's benefit, is, and always has been, defined and prosecutable as assault.

Sure, none of you guys are afraid of bigger guys, and all of that, so it's irrelevant. And none of you guys would ever do something wrong, like go into the wrong lane. And some of you guys, it seems, would even tell #2 to go stuff his head in a shredder. From the looks of it, there is a lot of ill feeling and just plain enmity against the OP just because he made a mistake and took someone else's place in line. I'm getting the strong sense that there are many people here who honestly think that he deserved a butt kicking for a traffic screw up, and that if someone makes a mistake, it is the duty of the citizenry to engage in vigilantism.


Some of the things I've read here are sheer idiocy. I'm giving up. Maybe the OP should give up too. Regardless of how many people agree with his actions, some minds just won't accept something they don't want to believe.

And seriously, how does the golden rule work as it applies to driver #2?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I look forward to the day that he does that to a car full of lickered up rednecks who start shooting at his feet because he had made them angry. I'd love to see this guy wetting his pants because someone answered his assault and intimidation with more assault and intimidation.
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Old October 23, 2011, 06:36 PM   #90
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My goal in carry is to defend myself and my loved ones from serious threat, something I sincerely hope will never occur...and I certainly pray that the need for armed response is not due to offense caused by my own thoughtless and rude behavior.
But that concern is not why I try to live by the golden rule. As my job has me driving all over my state, I am astounded by the rude behavior of my fellow citizens.
I make the conscious decision not to be one of those people. I am the driver who signals you to turn in front of him. I am the guy in the truck who moves over on the freeway so you can merge. I am the guy who sees a line of cars waiting for the ATM and waits his turn.
And, if I do err, my first thought is not to draw my weapon, it is to apologize to the person I have wronged, regardless of their race, creed or color.
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Old October 23, 2011, 08:33 PM   #91
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my issue has nothing to do with the traffic mistake. I take Great offense to people that don't give someone the benefit of the doubt in such mistakes. Pezo, I am not trying to harp on your character. I would like to see the bank video though, and I would like to get the other guy's side as well as witnesses(I realize this isn't possible). I guess what I am saying is if this guy was as truly menacing as described I would be on your side from the beginning, and this clown would be the kind of guy I take offense to as I just mentioned.

In my personal opinion I just think maybe the incident has been exaggerated, and I can understand how this could frustrate you if it hasn't been. I do not feel this man had any intention of opening your door, giving you a beat down, pulling you out of the car, etc. If he did any of these things it goes without saying you could draw and possibly shoot this bozo.

This staredown might've had to do with the fact that you had a pistol in your right hand - I mean if he was at the window standing while your sitting concealing a weapon under the seat or wherever then it is at least very plausible he was confused and/or trying to figure out what the hell you were doing while you of course were waiting for him to leave so you could in fact drive away and were indeed adrenalized yourself. I was going to mention this stuff earlier but really what point does it make? I just don't think everything went exactly as you say. Hopefully, you both aren't locals because this could lead to future issues. I myself never use ATM's...just pretty much Bad money where you are paying someone to gain access to your funds.

From the beginning of the thread you have come up with more answers and descriptions as stuff has come up or been questioned in your thread, and multiple people have mentioned this throughout the thread on multiple occasions in non-accusatory fashion. examples only: The driving, the huffing and puffing man(paraphrase) who was described more and moreso as the thread went on, how you 'apologized' yet it is pointed out recently you mentioned no apology, and so-on. I am Not calling you a liar; I just don't feel this situation was as dangerous as you describe though I do not know your age or your lifestyle. It Was a dangerous situation or at least on the border of tragedy because you had a gun drawn and as you stated, 'little did they know' in the original post(paraphrase).

Some others have mentioned and specifically one man about carrying for 30something yrs and never having to draw once. I know I never have. I will say that this can be a coincidence and different for people, so it would never be fair and I wouldn't condemn you for drawing. I said in my original reply I had no problem with you drawing; I just felt it unnecessary. Secondly, I believe your area geographically has to go on your side of the argument just like the beforementioned as well since the area has more issues than other parts of the country.

all the best+I hope this explains my reasoning for not 'jumping on board'. I seem to be in the minority on this thread though many have not 'jumped' back in the thread after initial disagreeable posts so who knows - maybe some are just biting their tongue. I guess many take your side, and I might if I had all the facts. I have heard TFL members talk about how they are on your side so much that they would have opened their car door as a 3rd party and use their door as protection and be tactically ready to protect you while this man walked up to your car. I am seeing things different in this thread.
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Old October 23, 2011, 08:46 PM   #92
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Wow. Some people here are just pure angels aren't they. Must be nice walking around knowing how polite and helpful you are over everyone else. The general model of good citizenship you are. Never once made a mistake and caused a problem.

Well, if you ever do make a mistake and **** off someone to the point they make you fear bodily harm please don't think of defending yourself because you really need to just own up to the mistake and take your beating.

As for me, I don't walk on water so if I do accidentally provoke someone into a roid rage and I fear for my life I'm most certainly going to defend myself.
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:09 AM   #93
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Last edited by youngunz4life; October 24, 2011 at 03:29 AM. Reason: don't know intention or intended recipient of post I had responded to
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Old October 24, 2011, 06:52 AM   #94
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Thank you all for your post. The suppotive ones were nice, the constructive criticism was help ful and some of the negatives re aasure me I may need to carry more often than I do. Thank you all and god bless. Also discussion further on desparity of force issues would be beneficial and also make this thread not so round and round.

Last edited by Pezo; October 24, 2011 at 07:13 AM.
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:05 PM   #95
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Pezo that was a great thread plus an intense situation for sure.
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Old October 24, 2011, 12:35 PM   #96
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The lesson here is lock your doors, I always and always lock my doors. If your door is unlock someone can pull your door open and smash you up. If the door is locked they have to smash your glass and then pull the handle.

I don't know why people want to cause trouble, I do not want trouble or have to use my gun, but if my life is in danger I will defend myself. That's sad how he got all angry over cutting in line. Short temper is dangerous!

You should see the idiots where I live, they drive 70mph+ on a 55 mph highway, sometimes they are over 80mph. I notice theres like a huge fleet of cars behind me(no one passed me in a while), and like this isn't right!(usually they are all passing me) then I notice a cop in front of them. lol
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Old October 24, 2011, 02:40 PM   #97
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From the nasty tone this one's taking, it looks like it's outlived its usefulness.

Closed.
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