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Old May 22, 2013, 01:16 PM   #1
40frog
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A little help with possible rifle sights?

Not sure if I am in the right forum but I took my new rifle out to the range this past weekend. It was a lot of fun and on the other thread I got some good tips for trying different methods for shooting it (sight wise). Well I was talking to a friend who knows his stuff and hunts and all that so I trust his advice and when he saw my target (yes of course it was my first time, i took a pic of my target lol) I told him how I had them fairly grouped but all towards the bottom right of the target and he told me that I need to adjust the sights. I think we came up that they need to go up and to the left. First I want to say that I didnt get a chance to take out the rifle last night and two I have no idea how to adjust them lol
And yes I know I can probably just go to him, but I'm curios from the target photo, if you guys think it was in fact rifle issue with sights or im just a lousy shot lol or both!!
I'll add that I did nothing more than just take rifle out of box and shoot. Should I have done something else?

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Old May 22, 2013, 06:39 PM   #2
kraigwy
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Yeap it needs to come up and left.

It's possible to get a zero regardless of the group size.

Draw a line down the target from 12 to 6 O'clock. Draw another line across the target from 9 to 3 O'clock.

Shot several shots, the more the better. Count the shots in each quarter. Adjust the sights and shoot again.

Do this until you have an equal number of shots in each quarter. Then regardless of the size of the group, you're centered.
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Old May 22, 2013, 10:07 PM   #3
Jim Watson
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What rifle?
We're there instructions in the box?
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:13 AM   #4
40frog
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OK so up and left. Now just to figure that out.

Bear with me here so I make 4 squares really, but am I still aiming at the bullseye?

DOH! I didn't think to look at the owners manual! lol I did that last night and it did say how to adjust and which way to turn the screws to go left or right. Thanks, I don't know why I didn't think of just looking at the manual. Btw its a mossberg 702 plinkster.

I will try all this at the range this weekend and come back and report.
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Old May 23, 2013, 09:01 AM   #5
kraigwy
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Quote:
Bear with me here so I make 4 squares really, but am I still aiming at the bullseye?
Yes, don't change your point of aim. Start with the target you posted.

Draw the lines as I mentioned above. They cross at the center of the target. Take the center of the group you posed and move left and up what ever your scope or sights require. (1/4 MOA, 1/2 MOA, .1 mil or what ever).

Then shoot again. Regardless of the size of the group, If you have the same number of shots in each quarter, you're zeroed.

Then you just have to work on your fundamentals until you get the group size down.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:25 AM   #6
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@kraig Ok I think I get it and will try that and report back.
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Old May 23, 2013, 11:39 AM   #7
g.willikers
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Without having to mess with the sights, you could get the same results by just standing on your head, and a little to the left.
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Old May 24, 2013, 06:13 AM   #8
MarkDozier
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lines, squares on my.
Just get some sight in targets or print some from the internet. With one inch squares it is easy to adjust the correct amount.
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Old May 24, 2013, 06:04 PM   #9
LED
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Frog,
First, test shoot from a vise to establish the true baseline.
Second, drift the rear sight in the direction you want your shots to go. Up and left, for example. If your front sight is adjustable, do it the opposite way. It's not really necessary to do the calculations. It seems to be rimfire ammo you are shooting, and in good supply.

Last edited by LED; May 25, 2013 at 03:54 AM.
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Old May 29, 2013, 08:10 AM   #10
40frog
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ok well I went back last night and tried to do the sights. I think I got them up but was having a hard time with the going left part. I turned the screw quite a few times and they just didnt seem to be moving left a whole lot. I put about 130 rounds or so in last night. I will have to keep adjusting next time I go back. This was my last target and where I left it at. I still think its the sights and not me because I did notice the groups moving along as I adjusted things.

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Old May 29, 2013, 09:36 AM   #11
Art Eatman
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My routine for the sighting-in of a rifle has been to shoot three shots (as carefully as possible with a consistent sight picture for smallest group) and then adjust the sights to move the center point of the group.

So, three shots; adjust. Three shots, adjust. "Rinse and repeat as necessary."

Now for the tricky part: If you run out of sight adjustment and are still shooting to the right, the rear sight must be moved to the left.

(I'm assuming the rear sight is a friction-fit in a dovetail.)

Gentle tapping with a small hammer can do it. I protect the metal of the sight with a piece of tape. If gentle taps don't work, I use a piece of nylon between the sight and the hammer. However, this gets into a situation of having proper tools and some experience in "entry level" gunsmithing.
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Old May 29, 2013, 10:21 AM   #12
PetahW
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.

Never, ever, "just take a rifle out of the box & shoot it" ! - The rifle could have production debris inside, and should at least have a preservative oil from the factory - all of which should be cleaned out to both prevent damage and to help with consistant accuracy at whatever level.

BUT, so far, so good....................... (It would help if we knew how far you're shooting - 25yds, 50yds ? )

Now, adjust the windage - tap (drift) the rear sight about 1/16" towards the left.

FWIW:

Before moving the sight sideways, apply a bit of yellow masking tape to the barrel immediately ahead or behind the sight, and make a pencil mark on the tape even with a convenient part of the sight next to the tape - so you will be able to easily see how much the sight's moved as you tap/drift it.

Baby steps - a little sight movement goes a long way.

DO NOT TAP/DRIFT the sight unless the rifle's held very securely, either by a companion or in a padded vise.

DO NOT USE light "love taps" - use a 12oz or so hammer against a non-marring drift pin ( I use the pivot pin from the hinge of a common household door).
Some penetrating oil, in/under the sight base, might be needed to free the sight up a bit for easier movement.



.

Last edited by PetahW; May 29, 2013 at 10:27 AM.
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Old May 29, 2013, 03:21 PM   #13
Art Eatman
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It's true that more than a "love tap" might be needed. Since not all dovetails are created equal, I figure gentle first efforts make a test to figure out just how hard a tap is needed.

This is not the sort of deal where you want fruition in one swell foop.
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Old May 29, 2013, 06:39 PM   #14
PetahW
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.

Yeah, no premature ejection (of the sight). .



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Old May 29, 2013, 10:36 PM   #15
big al hunter
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Your gun does NOT have a dovetail. Do NOT hit the rear sight with anything!

If the sight screw is adjusted to maximum you might have to get an aftermarket rear sight to get more adjustment. Or you could put a scope on it. Try the masking tape trick that petahW talked about to see if the sight is moving still or is out of adjustment.
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Old May 31, 2013, 07:23 AM   #16
40frog
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@art I don't think im quite that good to just hit 3 shots and know where I am at yet lol but thanks for the tip, next time I wont waste so many. I will do a bit less and adjust and see where it goes.

@petah I was shooting at 25 yards and yes after I did that I have now read that I should have cleaned it. So now I know for the next time.

@big al, I did not hit it. I took it out last night to clean up a bit since I hadnt had time since I shot it on Tuesday and I was able to move the screw a little more, probably not wise considering I couldnt test it on the spot but still there is a lot more room to screw so I will try again this coming weekend.

Thanks for the tips guys, I will try to post another shot when I finally think I have it ready.
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Old May 31, 2013, 10:15 AM   #17
PetahW
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Big Al is correct - I see now that the rear sight on your Plinkster is non-driftable, since it's screwed to the top of the barrel & not mounted in a dovetail slot.


There's still a few alternatives to achieve a zero:

1) Since it's only sheet metal, it's possible to slightly bend the rear sight's front-to-back section via pressing on the rear (towards the left) enough to zero the rifle.

2) In the pic's I've seen, the Plinkster's front sight is hooded, so IDK if it's in one piece with the ramp or mounted in a ramp dovetail slot (which I somehow doubt).
However, if it's dovetail mounted, the hood can be removed/tapped off forward and the front sight moved very little to the RIGHT (opposite what a rear sight should be moved) to attain zero.

3) Rimfire rifles are sometimes sensitive to different types, and/or brands of ammo, shifting zero with different ones; so you could also try some different .22LR ammo in the rifle to see if it shoots to the same, or a different, point of impact (POI).

4) Since the rifle's receiver top should have two parallel grooves along it, there are many inexpensive scopes available in a "kit" with rings that are made to clamp into those grooves - which scope should readily zero.
(I would suggest a riflescope with a 1" tube ILO a smaller/darker 3/4" or 7/8" tubed example)

BTW, your choice of a 25yd zero is a good one, since the .22 boolits will cross the line-of-sight twice: the 1st time (on the way up") @ 25yds, and again (on the way "down" ) @ about 75yds - perfect for most hunting/shooting with the .22LR.

.

Last edited by PetahW; May 31, 2013 at 10:20 AM.
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