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Old October 21, 2011, 05:39 PM   #26
farmerboy
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If you don't let me know of your concealed permit and weapon I'm gonna be ****** if i run you on radio and have to find out that way. Not scared. Just that you know the law and for you not letting me know I'm gonna cite you and turn it over and try to have your license pulled as long as i can. We need to help each other not the other way around
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Old October 21, 2011, 06:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
If you don't let me know of your concealed permit and weapon I'm gonna be ****** if i run you on radio and have to find out that way. Not scared. Just that you know the law and for you not letting me know I'm gonna cite you and turn it over and try to have your license pulled as long as i can. We need to help each other not the other way around
So how are we supposed to know it's you and not Officer Harless? (you know, the crazy Ohio cop that routinely threatens to execute people he pulls over)
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Old October 21, 2011, 06:30 PM   #28
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I don't know Hareless but i do know I'n Texas the concealed carry laws and if you're toting here you should too. No threats but that's just the way it is.
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Old October 21, 2011, 07:08 PM   #29
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Actually, if I'm toting in Texas I don't have to notify because you don't recognize my MN permit -- but I can legally carry in my car anyway.

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Old October 21, 2011, 11:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
If you don't let me know of your concealed permit and weapon I'm gonna be ****** if i run you on radio and have to find out that way. Not scared. Just that you know the law and for you not letting me know I'm gonna cite you and turn it over and try to have your license pulled as long as i can.
The law says that a TX CHL holder shall provide his CHL when asked for ID if he's carrying.

If he is not carrying he has no duty to inform nor any duty to present his CHL when asked for ID.

HOWEVER, a couple of years back the TX legislature changed the law about the informing/presenting a CHL when asked for ID even WHEN carrying. It is no longer an offense to fail to present the CHL when asked for ID and there is no penalty under law for failing to do so.

Here's the current law, scroll down to Sec. 411.205.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/GV.411.htm

Here's the bill showing where the penalty sections used to be and that they've been removed. Scroll down to Sec. 411.205. to see the strikeouts.
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB02730F.HTM

So you can not cite someone for failing to present a CHL when asked for ID when carrying because it is not an offense. If you do it anyway, they will not be penalized and their license certainly won't be suspended.

Old Section with removed sections highlighted in red.
Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY
(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.
New Section. Note that it is only applicable if the person is carrying, that there is no longer any penalty for failing to inform and that failing to inform is no longer listed as an offense.
Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
We need to help each other not the other way around.
My sentiments exactly. If an LEO is going to make a point of enforcing a particular law then that LEO needs to know what the law actually says. Otherwise we're not helping each other.
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Old October 22, 2011, 01:57 AM   #31
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John, if you're gonna try and play like you're on your game with this. I'd suggest you go more I'n depth and what the law actually is and for this and the penalty.
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Old October 22, 2011, 02:06 AM   #32
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The TX statutes are posted online. I provided links and quotes from the statutes to support my statements, you can do the same if you believe my comments are incorrect or that my assessment is inaccurate or incomplete.

What's more, if you can demonstrate that there is still a penalty for failing to inform, I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong. Because I actually do believe that citizens and police officers need to help each other.

Here's some more information on the topic from the Texas Department of Public Safety website.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis...hl/chlfaqs.htm
64. I have a friend that had his license suspended for ninety (90) days for failing to display his license when a peace officer asked him for identification. What happens if the officer does not ask for the CHL, am I still required to display my handgun license to the officer if I am carrying a handgun? Will my license be suspended?

Yes. Pursuant to GC 411.205(a), you must still display your concealed handgun license if you are carrying a concealed handgun when asked for identification by a peace officer or magistrate. However, as of September 1, 2009 there is no longer a ninety (90) day suspension for failure to display your license.
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Old October 22, 2011, 06:47 AM   #33
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No CC permits here in VT, we have some of the most relaxed gun laws in the country.

However, I wouldn't dream of not telling a LE officer that I have weapons on my person/in my vehicle if I were pulled over. We're (hopefully) on the same side of the law.
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Old October 23, 2011, 01:41 AM   #34
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..i'd like john's post if you could...just saying. no offense farmer.
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Old October 23, 2011, 06:12 AM   #35
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This is going in a similar direction to the one I had on another forum. An officer makes a statement about what he'll do if everyone doesn't meet his expectations of total submission.
I'm not in TX and have no plans of ever going there BUT I don't like to be bullied or threatened by some ego stroker with a badge. I'll be polite and provide the required info but I won't suck your tutu. If the purported infraction warrants a citation, so be it. If your enforcement of the law is based on whether or not the driver is giving out ego blow, that's wrong. A uniform and a gun does not intimidate me. I've faced a lot of uniformed guys with guns bigger than yours and they wanted to kill me from the get go.
I say again. My being armed has nothing to do with whatever the TRAFFIC enforcement issue is and there is no reason for me to provide more information than what is required to determine that I am licensed to drive, have proof of insurance, and the vehicle is legally owned and licensed.
I don't see the need to tell the cop where I'm going, why I'm going there, where I've been, or what I had for lunch. It's just a fishing expedition, they're not making friendly conversation.
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Old October 23, 2011, 06:57 AM   #36
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I just looked up the law for Louisiana, and I'm surprised to find that Louisiana requires notice. Without posting a bunch of legalese, the link can be found here: LINKY

However, I've been a cop in Louisiana for thirty years and I've only been notified, maybe a half-dozen times that someone is carrying. I've never felt a need to disarm someone who was legally carrying. I can go so far as to state for the record that I have never had a problem with someone who was carrying legally.

I work in a fairly rural area, and Louisiana is a very gun-friendly state, and I just assume that every car I stop has a gun in it somewhere. That's not a problem and in Louisiana, carrying a gun in your car is a constitutionally protected activity.

As a matter of fact, Louisiana goes so far as to say, in another statute: The provisions of this Section shall not apply to: Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle. Ya gotta love a state with verbiage like that.
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Old October 23, 2011, 05:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
This is going in a similar direction to the one I had on another forum. An officer makes a statement about what he'll do if everyone doesn't meet his expectations of total submission.
It's reasonable for an officer to take steps to enforce laws when they are violated, and farmerboy's comments would have been fully accurate as recently as 30 August 2009. Failing to inform would have warranted a citation and possible CHL suspension at that time.

There are a lot of laws on the books and they change from time to time. It's not surprising that a person, even an LEO might not be 100% up to date on every single law for his state, especially ones that have changed recently.

That's one of the useful aspects of these discussions. They can either provide information or prompt a person to investigate/research a topic and thus become better informed.
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Old October 24, 2011, 05:36 AM   #38
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Guess it's just me but wouldn't the better question be if you were an oficer, would you like to know who is carrying if you pulled them over? I know a few bad apples are out there. But most of your leo's are still honest. Thats why I inform that I have a license and if im carrying or not. Just to ease there minds and there more pleasant to deal with.
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Old October 24, 2011, 05:47 AM   #39
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that makes sense rookie, but on the other hand one can't control everything and I have found that when you try to do this it usually just leads to frustration and extra time being focused on babysitting things. the bottom line is some civilians don't care what the LEO thinks, and he/she is not in the wrong when choosing not to notify if it isn't a law. I myself am pro notification for the most part, but I admit I haven't on every occaison. I do know ahead of time when travelling what states require it. I have noticed many officers state it is a law even when it isn't(not speaking my experiences only//I was only told this once personally).
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Old October 24, 2011, 03:00 PM   #40
rookie5.56
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problem I find is with carrying and riding so many laws in different states. I wish they could come up with a sign to give you heads up about carrying and helmet laws under the welcome to state sign!
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Old October 24, 2011, 10:24 PM   #41
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I stand corrected! Did not know of this change. Yes laws are always changing and hard to keep up to date with all. Talking to a co-worker last night while on duty and we talked about this change as well. He also did not know of this change. Thanks for letting me know!
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Old October 25, 2011, 10:47 PM   #42
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yeah it gets confusing
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Old October 26, 2011, 07:50 AM   #43
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I found this discussion and the link very informative. I travel quite a bit in Florida, Georgia, S. Carolina, N. Carolina and Tennessee. The Carolinas are "Must Inform" - I didn't know this. I frequently cross over into the Carolinas from Georgia for short distances. However, the local police patrol those borders and set speed traps pretty regularly. Fortunately, the last time I got pulled over for speeding was about 4 years ago - just over the Georgia side of the border with Tennessee.
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:24 AM   #44
farmerboy
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Why is it a must show but if you don't there's no penalty. Don't make no sense. Plus another without ccw has gotten a concealed pistol doesn't tell and he's perfectly legal. Unless he's a felon. ( I'n Texas). ?
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:34 AM   #45
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Quote:
Why is it a must show but if you don't there's no penalty.
Anytime you ask the government to give you a permit to do something, it comes with rules. Don't forget, you are asking permission to carry a gun on land that you don't own. I don't think that particular rule is a real concern - glad these states all have reciprocity.
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:36 AM   #46
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Who knows what a legislature is thinking, but i believe the reason they removed the penalty was to level the field between drivers with a concealed handgun permit and those without a permit but carrying anyway under the "traveling" provisions (which were also changed a few years ago because a Harris County DA was ignoring the law and prosecuting people just out of spite)
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Old October 26, 2011, 04:05 PM   #47
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zxcvbob is correct, as nearly as I can tell. Here's as much as I know about the situation.

The penalty for failing to present a CHL when asked for ID was removed from the statutes after the legislature made it legal to have a concealed handgun in the vehicle without a permit.

When they legalized handgun carry in a vehicle it meant that a CHL carrier actually had to abide by a stricter code than someone with a non-CHL since a person carrying in a vehicle without a CHL had no duty to inform and, was, therefore, obviously not subject to any penalty for failing to do so.

The legislature was going to completely remove the statute but there was resistance from DPS to removing the law entirely. The compromise was to leave the law in place but remove the penalty. I guess it doesn't make really good sense, but it makes more sense than it would have if they hadn't done anything at all.
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:12 PM   #48
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Concealed Carry Rules

As a law enforcement officer I can tell you that each state has its own rules concerning concealed carry, but there is one rule they all have in common.
During any traffic stop if anyone in the stopped vehicle is armed, or has a handgun in a suitcase or carry bag, and holds a Concealed Carry Permit, that person is required to inform the officer of his possession even if the permit holder is only a passenger. Failure to do so can result in arrest and citing of the permit holder and revocation of the CCL. This means that a permit holder is required to inform the driver that he or she is carrying so the driver can tell the officer during the stop, or the permit holder must present his license to the driver to be handed to the officer at the time the driver presents his driver's license to the officer.
I can also tell you, as an officer, that if I stop you and ask you if there are any guns in the vehicle and the driver tells me no, and then I find one, everyone is going into cuffs. A permit holder is not required to produce his permit if there is no firearm present.
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Old October 26, 2011, 08:36 PM   #49
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(Putting this as kindly as I can to the new guy) You haven't been paying attention, have you? You did get the "every state is different" part right. Pretty much everything else you said was wrong, to varying degrees. Please check with your supervisor or the district attorney's office and find out what the laws really are in your jurisdiction.

You bring up a good point tho' about an armed *passenger* in a vehicle. In a state with no duty to inform, I think it's best to keep one's mouth shut unless instructed to get out of the car -- or if there's any other reason the officer might find the gun. (that's not a good thing to surprise a cop with, even if it's securely in a holster) OTOH, why complicate the traffic stop unnecessarily?

In states with a duty to inform, I don't know how that affects passengers. I try to stay out of those states.
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Last edited by zxcvbob; October 26, 2011 at 09:00 PM.
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Old October 29, 2011, 03:13 AM   #50
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one thing is, don't lie if asked. that is a big one and should be(in my opinion)
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