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Old September 12, 2011, 03:58 PM   #1
TLeo
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Night time home burglary....

Here's link to a recent home break-in which is actually classified as 1st degree burglary here in NC because it was night and home was occupied. The homeowner did a good job --didn't answer the door in early morning but watched and observed and took action to protect himself and home. Maybe should have called police earlier on but still a good job.

http://www.wxii12.com/news/29159847/detail.html
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Old September 12, 2011, 08:21 PM   #2
motorhead0922
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It all worked out. BG's in jail, home owner not charged, nobody shot.

I'm glad he missed in this case. Hopefully 2 rounds of .357 coming their way is enough to change these kids' outlook on life.
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Old September 12, 2011, 09:03 PM   #3
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But now he has holes in his walls. If he'd hit the goblin coming up the stairs he might not have to patch the sheetrock.
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Old September 12, 2011, 09:06 PM   #4
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Those 4 kids need to find whoever has been praying for them and give them a big hug and thank you.

Had the homeowner chosen a 12 ga or a short barreled semi-auto carbine, . . . there may have been 4 funerals instead of court appearances.

Glad it worked out for all, . . . but it is a sad discourse upon our society today.

May God bless,
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Old September 12, 2011, 09:18 PM   #5
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He needs to learn to shoot, if the robber was on the 2nd step - he was firing from about 5 feet away. More practice man...

Also he said in the interview he intended to kill him. That's a mistake, he should read "Gravest Extreme" and practice saying things like "I was in fear for my life" and "I thought they were going to kill me, I only fired to save myself" and things like that...
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Old September 12, 2011, 10:28 PM   #6
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Hopefully that near miss will change their lives. But it's bad too that we have to feed them, house them, give them cable tv and full medical when alot of people living right don't even have these things and that's only if they do any time at all. Why, all because he was a sorry shot!
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Old September 12, 2011, 10:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
If he'd hit the goblin coming up the stairs he might not have to patch the sheetrock.
Patching sheetrock is infinitely preferable to cleaning up after a shooting where someone gets hit. A friend of mine had to do that at his shooting range after a suicide. He wouldn't talk about it.

Getting everything affected properly clean is critical if you want to avoid a scented reminder...
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Old September 12, 2011, 11:35 PM   #8
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"In the Gravest Extreme" should be required reading

C0untZer0:
Quote:
Also he said in the interview he intended to kill him. That's a mistake, he should read "Gravest Extreme" and practice saying things like "I was in fear for my life" and "I thought they were going to kill me, I only fired to save myself" and things like that...
This is so very true, and excellent advice! Read the book and you'll learn that it's equally inadvisable to say "I was only trying to scare/wound him". It's probably most advisable to just zip your lip, especially when it comes to talking to the press.

Massad Ayoob says [in Chapter 17]:
Quote:
MAKE NO STATEMENTS WHATEVER TO THE PRESS. Newsmen have found that murder sells more papers than justifiable homicide, and shooting incidents tend to become distorted by the time they reach the printed page. You may think that you'll be treated like a hero for killing a criminal. You're probably wrong.
Here's something I cannot state more strongly: Anyone reading this forum who has not read "In the Gravest Extreme" is, as an armed citizen, seriously educationally-deprived!

My advice would be to immediately procure a copy of this book (it was written circa 1980 but is still in print and still eminently relevant) and immediately read it!
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Old September 13, 2011, 01:16 AM   #9
Crazy88Fingers
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Does North Carolina have Castle Doctrine? If so, it seems he could say whatever he wants to whomever he wants.

Someone broke into his home, he shot at them, case closed.
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Old September 13, 2011, 07:35 AM   #10
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On the one hand, I strongly recommend In the Gravest Extreme.

On the other hand, Mas does NOT recommend using cliche lines such as "I was in fear for my life." He says that has become such a catch-phrase that it will almost immediately sound rehearsed to the investigators.

What Mas recommends is the following outline:

1) Explain the basic dynamic, identifying yourself as victim and the other guy as aggressor. "He came at me with a weapon."

2) State your willingness to sign a criminal complaint, further cementing your status as victim.

3) Point out any witnesses, before they can leave the scene.

4) Point out any evidence, before it magically disappears. (Mas told us about one case where an ambulance crew member kicked the attacker's gun out of his way, when he was treating the downed attacker... cops didn't find the gun, and thought the victim/shooter was lying to them... he also told us that at the 1986 Miami shootout, souvenir hunters were observed stealing spent casings while officers were on scene.)

5) Once you've done that, say you will assist the investigation and make a further statement after discussing it with counsel.

As noted, do NOT talk to the press, or, for that matter, post details of your encounter on an internet forum.

Mas also said don't just "keep your mouth shut." First, because that is what perps do, and the signal the officers will get is that you have something to hide. Second, because their initial impression will affect how they approach the investigation. And third, because witnesses and evidence can disappear, or just be overlooked.
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Old September 13, 2011, 07:40 AM   #11
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Crazy88Fingers, "Castle Doctrine" is not some magical talisman, any more than a gun is a guarantee of your safety from harm.

If you shoot your drunken buddy, to whom you had given the key to your place, because he arrived unexpectedly after a fight with his wife, you could find yourself in legal as well as emotional jeopardy.

After all, you had given him a key. Had he really broken in?

IE, status of the person in your home is one potential factor.

Also, while some states will treat the break-in itself as justification for the use of deadly force, others will want to establish that you had reason to fear death or great bodily harm. In most places, that doesn't mean the BG has to be armed, but you might have to establish that he did behave in a manner that supports your fear that you were going to be attacked.

But if you just want to spout whatever you want after an incident.... have fun with that.
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Old September 13, 2011, 08:06 AM   #12
Ringolevio
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I stand corrected

MLeake:
Quote:
On the one hand, I strongly recommend In the Gravest Extreme.

On the other hand, Mas does NOT recommend using cliche lines such as "I was in fear for my life." He says that has become such a catch-phrase that it will almost immediately sound rehearsed to the investigators.
[snip]
Mas also said don't just "keep your mouth shut." First, because that is what perps do, and the signal the officers will get is that you have something to hide. Second, because their initial impression will affect how they approach the investigation. And third, because witnesses and evidence can disappear, or just be overlooked.
When I said it's probably advisable to just zip your lip, I was oversimplifying Massad Ayoob's advice and concentrating on his attitude toward talking to the press.

Thank you, MLeake, for clarifying; I stand corrected!

May I add that you always strike me as a voice of reason.

Cheers, "Ringolevio"
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Old September 13, 2011, 08:13 AM   #13
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Ringolevio, I cheated.

I just had a MAG-40 class with Mas and Marty Hayes last month.

Cheers,

M

PS and Kathy Jackson, too. How could I forget Pax?
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Old September 13, 2011, 08:14 AM   #14
Don P
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From another thread about having a firearm handy at all times the homeowner "must be paranoid" he had a gun handy to defend the home and family.
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Old September 13, 2011, 08:15 AM   #15
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This is horrible. What if he had hurt those poor kids. He should have put up a sign "Robbery Free Zone" and no one would have ever bothered him. Hey the police would have been there in ten minutes. How are those kids expected to survive this trama in their lives.
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Old September 13, 2011, 06:52 PM   #16
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Those four young lads were just out for one last score prior to turning their lives around.
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Old September 13, 2011, 09:14 PM   #17
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It's just obvious that those kids were practicing for Halloween, after all, Halloween is only a couple of months away. They were masquerading as violent burglars who break into houses at 2:30 AM. How could anybody mistake that for a real burglary?

This should all be taken in the proper spirit of the event. They should all be allowed to go bobbing for French Fries.
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Old September 28, 2011, 11:17 AM   #18
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5th Amendment Misunderstood

Some of you are of the mistaken belief that an innocent man cannot be convicted of a crime he didn't commit. The point is, an innocent man can indeed make incriminating statements. DNA evidence is now clearing men who have spent decades in prison for someone else's crime.

Yes, pleading the 5th can cause the police to focus on you but it may also keep you from being falsely charged as a result of an innocent but misleading statement.
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Old October 13, 2011, 11:41 AM   #19
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An educational video titled "Don't Talk to Cops" posted in two parts on youtube.com drives home the point that you can not help yourself by making statements to the police. You can only harm yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

I found it enlightening. I have a law degree so this is like revisiting a law school class. The professor has a guest lecturer, who is either a former cop or still a cop but is also a licensed lawyer too; to present the other side. But the cop agrees with the advice that you can only hurt yourself by talking to the police.

One premise which is offered is the one where the person makes a statement to police but is mistaken and later is proven to be wrong about what he asserted. The prosecutor can then charge that person with making a false statement.

Do you think that you might be a bit agitated after experiencing a life and death struggle where you had to shoot someone to survive? Do you think you might not be thinking clearly? Do you think you might be better off taking time to speak with a lawyer and have that lawyer speak for you?
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Old October 13, 2011, 12:15 PM   #20
Bartholomew Roberts
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Mello2U, we've actually discussed that subject quite a bit. I don't want to drag this relatively old post off topic to revisit it; but I disagree with the idea that talking to police can only hurt you. The link above goes into more detail on the thinking behind that.
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Old October 15, 2011, 06:35 PM   #21
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It's a shame alot of people aren't familiar with their guns any more than this homeowner was. Take them out and then we no longer have to spend tax dollars on housing them I'n the prisons and jail. What a wSte of money for so many. Alot of people will also throw a rock thru a window and see if a light comes on. If you get prepared and lay and wait. May be like hunting. If you turn on a light, the just go down the road to another until it works. And people learn to shoot!
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Old October 15, 2011, 07:13 PM   #22
Crazy88Fingers
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I know Castle Doctrine won't always save you. But in this case a group of individuals he doesn't know forcibly entered his home and were advancing up the stairs to where he and his family were sleeping in the middle of the night.

In my opinion, he was safe to make an honest statement to the police.
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Old October 16, 2011, 03:00 AM   #23
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farmerboy, preventing potential future crimes is NOT a defense for homicide. Making statements like you did in your last post is NOT likely to make your defense attorney happy, in the event you ever are involved in a shooting.
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Old October 16, 2011, 08:05 AM   #24
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The number of times I read of homeowners who shoot multiple times in home invasions and no one is hit surprises me. Between forums and The American Rifleman there is no shortage of gun owners who can't shoot accurately. I think I will go out tomorrow and practice!
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Old October 16, 2011, 10:27 PM   #25
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NOT preventing future crimes but taking care of your own business in your own home and protecting you and your own family when and if the need arises. I really feel most people are scared to take care of business or they dont know how to handle their firearm.
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