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Old November 20, 2011, 07:34 AM   #51
Lloyd Smale
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Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
that been said the 22250 is hands down the best choise in a varmit gun

Based on what? '

based on the fact that it does 99 percent of what a swift will do. Brass is much easier to come by. Finding a rifle in 22250 is much easier as everyone makes them and Its just as accurate as the swift. Id bring up the fact that factory ammo is much easier to find and cheaper but then what self respecting varmit hunter doesnt handload but then i can buy loaded 22250 for the same price as i pay for swift brass. .
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Old November 20, 2011, 08:53 AM   #52
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I've had two .22-250s since the sixties, until this year, when I had my favorite re-barreled to .243 Win.

The Rem 700 ADL, (1980s vintage) IMHO is about the best Rem ADL made to date. In .22-250, it won me about a hundred turkey shoots, killed many woodchucks and crows, a couple of deer, and was exceedingly accurate, winning an informal inter-club 200 yard benchrest match. It would group 3/8" at 100 yards with my favorite handloads.

The two problems I had with the .22-250 were: For reloaders, cases stretched too much due to the body taper and trimming was a chore. I was using softer, but nicer Norma cases and had to trim after about every firing.

The second problem was even more frustrating. The twist rate of the Remington was 1/14", I believe, and it wouldn't stabilize any bullets over 55 grains. For a while in the 60s and early 70s, it was my only centerfire and though I was using Nosler 55 grain solid-based "Zipedo" bullets, it just wasn't a good deer cartridge for Maine hunting.

Many times, I thought of having the rifle re-chambered to .22-250 Ackey Improved, but was afraid the amazing accuracy of that barrel would suffer. I still have the used barrel and it's in good shape, but it will never be re-installed.

The .243 Win is everything I'd ever wanted in a Maine varmint/sometimes deer cartridge. It really does a number on eastern coyotes!

My Tikka .223 Rem is an even nicer range rifle than the .22-250 was, shading it for accuracy and the barrel doesn't heat up as much. It's also very tolerant of various loads and very easy to size.
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Old November 20, 2011, 03:00 PM   #53
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This debate probably will go on forever. I'm a Swift guy and I suppose that's because it is the hotter round if you reload and because it's a somewhat legendary round. We all know that there isn't much difference between the 220 and the 22-250, but the 220 is just a bit faster and I want the fast one. It's as simple as that. If you're gonna spend the money, why go with number 2? Get a Swift and run with the big dogs...
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Old November 20, 2011, 03:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
This debate probably will go on forever. I'm a Swift guy and I suppose that's because it is the hotter round if you reload and because it's a somewhat legendary round. We all know that there isn't much difference between the 220 and the 22-250, but the 220 is just a bit faster and I want the fast one. It's as simple as that. If you're gonna spend the money, why go with number 2? Get a Swift and run with the big dogs...
Amen. The 22-250 will always play second fiddle to the 220 in the speed department, it's as simple as that.

"But...but, the 22-250 is cheaper, more common, blah blah blah (insert excuse here), etc.", who cares it's still second place
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Old November 21, 2011, 09:32 AM   #55
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Thanks guys now you got me wanting to go buy a 220 swift Like I needed help in that department in buying guns wifey is gonna be ticked about this one
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Old November 21, 2011, 12:03 PM   #56
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Give it to her-with a big bow wrapped around it. And do let us know how swift her expression of appreciation is...
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Old November 21, 2011, 12:53 PM   #57
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I learned to shoot on my father's Mod70 Swift back in the mid 50s. It left an indelible impression that is part emotion and part OMG. I always wanted one, and went so far in the early 70s as to buy 100 cases in Norma brass -- knowing that the rifle to put them in was next.

But other things got in the way.... you know how it goes.

Dad rebarreled the Swift to a 243* back in the late 60s/early 70s and that that's how I inherited it it in the mid-late 80s. It sat in the gunsafe for a decade since I'd already bought my own M77V-243 and put a Unertl Ultra Varmint on it back in `73. It served me well for 30 years.

Eight years ago I did what I'd wanted for the last 40 ... re-re-barreled that Model-70 back to a Swift w/ a 26" Krieger. 4,100+ easily w/ 52gr SMKs and my show-off gun at the range to put literal-laser-edged holes in other peoples' dimes with it. (though I stick to the mid 39's for prairie dogs & ground squirrels).

Loaded properly, the Swift is unexcelled -- and not a barrel-burner by any conventional measure.

And yes, it's also emotional.
But so's a Shelby GT.






* He also re-chambered the Springfield I grew up on as well, to 300Win to give him the ultimate 2-gun North American set. I left the Springfield in 300W, but replaced the shot-out original Sprinfield barrel with a Krieger as well. It's good for a nickel w/ 165s throught 190s.
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Old November 21, 2011, 02:37 PM   #58
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What dgludwig just wrote reminded me of a funny/sad Christmas morning of years ago, when our oldest daughter was married to her first husband. The SNL put two 'primary' presents under the tree. One was in a box obviously from a jewelry store and the other was a long box that looked to me (and sounded, when I shook it) like a shotgun. The daughter only had eyes for the jewelry box and was really licking her chops over it. But...on Christmas morning, the SNL gave the jewelry box to his mother in law and gave the shotgun to his wife. OOOOOOBaby that was a tense moment and it only got worse from there. I'm laughing now, but I was not laughing back then. I like my new SNL, and he buys the daughter jewelry.

I apologize that this really isn't thread related, but blame it on dgludwig.
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Old November 21, 2011, 06:52 PM   #59
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Hmm...I guess the phrase "married to her first husband" says it all.
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Old November 21, 2011, 08:43 PM   #60
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Practically speaking there is virtually no difference between the 22-250 and the 220 Swift. I've had both and liked them both very much.
But when was practicality ever a reason to buy a new rifle?
Buy the one that trips your trigger and have fun.
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Old November 21, 2011, 09:01 PM   #61
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Of course, there are also cartridges like the 22/30-30, that push about the same velocity and are formed from 30-30 brass. There is also a 6mm/30-30, for those who are fond of a slightly larger bullet. Based on my long-term plans, I'll be reloading and wanting to stick with rimmed cartridges for my Encore setup (avoiding headspace problems) and the 22/30-30 is a 4000fps varmint popper with a rim. :-)
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Old November 21, 2011, 10:21 PM   #62
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Of course, there are also cartridges like the 22/30-30,....
Look up the .219 Zipper....

loading a wildcat, for a specific rifle, you can do almost anything you want. including re-inventing old cartridges, or concepts at different pressures and velocities.

The .22-250 survived for decades as a wildcat, and became so popular, it was eventually made a factory round. Because it is very good at what it does. Good enough to rival the .220 Swift (a factory round from its introduction), survive and even prosper. The Swift hangs on, but its not as popular generally as the .22-250 has become.
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Old November 22, 2011, 08:04 AM   #63
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I look at it this way: The 22-250's bullet/velocity range is 'close' to the Swift's, but achieves this in part w/ higher max cartridge pressure (65ksi) than the Swift (62ksi) to make up for 10% less case capacity. The Swift, on the other hand, will beat out the 22-250 at its lower pressure by 150+ fps, and can still be loaded down just slightly to match the 22-250 -- at pressures in the 55-56ksi range.

And that's the magic pressure number for barrel life.

Last edited by mehavey; November 22, 2011 at 09:06 AM.
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Old November 22, 2011, 01:47 PM   #64
Lloyd Smale
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Like i said im more of a fan of the 22250 then the swift. I own 4 22250s and only one swift but that been said if velocity is your major consern the swift will beat it every time and is just as accurate.
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Old November 23, 2011, 08:25 AM   #65
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It seems that people are way to concerned about a one or two hundred feet per second difference, where, in the real world, it doesn't amount to a yellow hole in the snow.

I usually shot 55 grain bullets and deliberately loaded my .22-250 down just a bit to minimize both case stretching and barrel erosion while retaining acceptable wind deflection at long distance, compared with the lighter bullets available at the time. None of the critters or targets I shot every complained that it was a bit slower than either factory or Swift velocities.

The newer, tipped bullets probably cut the ballistic difference between the older bullets in the Swift and today's bullets/powders. I've never used bullets lighter than 50 grains in .22-250 and find it incredible that people were using 40 grain bullets in the Swift, but "whatever floats your boat".
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Old November 23, 2011, 09:46 AM   #66
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This has been an interesting thread, about 1/2 fact/semi fact, 1/2 pure hyperbole, 1/2 pure historical BS not backed up by real world shooting various bullets over a chrono

Nobody asked but you want a real worl solution to all these issues.....get a 20TAC. You will never shoot a .22 centerfire again. 500 yard capability, bullets with a BC 50% higher, far easier on barrels, all with 30%-40% less powder. Oh and by the way, far less recoil so you can see your hits. That gentlemen, is game, set & match.
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Old November 23, 2011, 10:18 AM   #67
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I've never seen .20TAC ammo for sale in Lander, WY or any where else for that matter. Seems we may need to play that game over before we declare set and match!
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Old November 23, 2011, 10:57 AM   #68
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No but they sell presses, Lee loaders, and Lapua brass. In a pinch go with the 204.

P.S. until last year they did'nt have indoor plumbing out there.
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Old November 23, 2011, 11:34 AM   #69
mehavey
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With equal barrels/bullets (whatever lengths/weight) at equal pressures: The Swift beats the 22-250 every time.

The Swift equals the 22-250's best performance with significantly less (barrel-burning-wise) pressure.

These are empirical facts borne out by hunting experience starting the 50's and picked up again in the new millennium. (In the 50’s, nothing beat the Swift for CNS knockdown on Whitetail at reasonable ranges/reasonable shot placement.) The speed/pressure observations are also born out over my actual chronograph readings w/ corresponding QL analysis

Now here’s the Bottom Line:
Yes, if you have a 22-250, there's no reason to change out.
But if choosing anew between the two, the Swift wins.
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Old November 23, 2011, 11:46 AM   #70
Lloyd Smale
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ill argue the whitetail knockdown thing too. Ive shot a few deer with both the 22250 and 220 swift and yes they will knock down deer but i dont think they hold a candle to my 257 wby or my 264 mag in that dept.
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Old November 23, 2011, 09:02 PM   #71
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Giggle- snort. Back around 1950, I watched my father with his Swift and my uncle with his Varminter. They both ruined jackrabbits at fair distances via spotlight. So the years go by and I wind up with a Swift, doing in feral cats at around 300 yards. Then cometh a factory Varminter, aka .22-250, and it did quite nicely. A buddy of mine used his on a 400-yard crow. Fast forward some decades and I take my father's Swift and do in a 400-yard prairie dog.

So I'm pretty well stuck with the notion that they're both good and there's not enough difference between them to matter.
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Old November 24, 2011, 01:42 AM   #72
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Awww, c'mon, Art! This was fun reading why the 22-250 is superior to the Swift. Or was it the other way around? Anyway, this is like watching two dogs marking the corner hydrant. Mine! No! Mine! No! Mine!
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Old November 24, 2011, 10:48 AM   #73
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Woof! Woofwoofwoof!
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Old November 30, 2014, 10:10 PM   #74
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I own two 22-250’s, a couple of old swifts one in sporter and one BB and several .223’s. guess what i acquired from sportsman’s warehouse in rocklin a few weeks ago brand new

.220 swift in a fluted BB rem 700 stainless


They still chamber that ole round. 1:14 twist


This ole debate pops up once in awhile, actually tonight someone asked my opinion and i remembered this thread from 3 years ago, because i pointed someone else to it then. so just for fun thought id stir this one back up, as i know he’ll be looking around tonight.

my .02 i always enjoyed my swifts. if i want a work horse, i shoot my .223’s. my small block powered bet ever reliable rig. if i want a fast mileage getting corner cruiser i’ll look at a mazda miada and my .204.... but if i want garage art and a classic a 427 powered chevy II i shoot my .22-250 if i want my 426 powered hemi cuds i dig out the .220 swift.

the 427 bow tie and 426 hemi were a close rivalry but for some reason one dominated daytona a little more than the other. but ..............


anyways just stirring the pot.

point is to those guys shopping keep in mind a .223 or a .223AI will provide a work horse of a firearm. and a AI will get you that extra punch while allowing you to still buy and use bulk ammo. but when you step to the next realm your looking to buy something outside of the run of the mill street cruiser, and for many its not a mater of whats cheapest or easiest, if that was the case a .223 all day long.

the .22-250 and the swift are both hotrods of the bygone era big block technology. you want fuel mileage and less burned tires ....(less powder and similar speed) theres other options. I love all three of those calibers listed above, i find more often than not i grab my .223AI for a lot of things that i used to grab my .22-250 for, and when i am out coyote hunting my prefference is my .220 swift and those hand loads of 52Gr SBT at 3900 fps so she tends to be the ride along. when i head to SD and hammer dog towns i bring 3 .223’s and maybe the .22-250 as my occasional hot shot shooter, but it just depends on who I’m with, most my buddies out there still pound the really long shots with their .220 swifts so ammo between friends isn’t an issue if i take the swift. So again more often than not the 22-250s arent getting used much these days. so its a awash, nostalgia has a place

Last edited by ddestruel; December 1, 2014 at 09:52 PM.
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Old November 30, 2014, 10:29 PM   #75
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There's plenty to stir that aren't 3 years old...
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