The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 11, 2011, 11:11 AM   #1
snowdog650
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 71
Problem With 7mm REM MAG Reloads in Browning A-Bolt: Action Will Not Close

Hey, all. I had a bit of a curious problem yesterday at the range with some new 7mm REM MAG reloads that I was working up.

The bolt of the Browning A-Bolt in question would not lock down on several of the cartidges. The cartridge would easily make its way down to the lands, but right before locking the bolt down, the bolt would sieze -- thereby requiring considerable force to extract the brass. Similarly, some cartidges would allow the bolt to lock down with a little force, but would require significant force to back the bolt back out to extract the brass.

Test-firing some Remington Cor-Lokt resulted in zero issues.

The brass is once-fired Remington factory out of this rifle. Brass was trimmed to trim length and neck-sized. Bullet is 160GR Sierra GameKing HPBT. Federal 215 primers. OAL is within specs published by Sierra.

I am at a loss here. Taking a couple of the un-firable handloads, I compared measurements with the factory Core-Lokt, and could not find any discrepancies on any measurement on the brass. OAL on the handloads is about 0.010" less than the Core-Lokt.

My guess is if I did a FL re-size, the problem may go away; however, I am not entirely sure, since this brass was identical in dimensions to the Remington factory brass. But I shouldn't have to do that.

Anyone have any clue W in TF is going on? I have never seen anything quite like this, and it was quite embarassing at the range.
snowdog650 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 11:27 AM   #2
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 3,452
Could be just that when you adjust your "bullet-seating" die down, you seated it to tight... Turn the bullet seating die down on an empty casing (that you have sized and then trimmed to length) until the die touches the shoulder of the case, then back die off 1/2 turn, lock down lock-nut, and readjust seater.. Sometimes when the die is set too close it rolls the shoulder of the case.... ALSO check the OAL of your rifle and seat bullet back a bit, say maybe .010, or so.
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 11:56 AM   #3
snowdog650
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 71
Quote:
Could be just that when you adjust your "bullet-seating" die down, you seated it to tight... Turn the bullet seating die down on an empty casing (that you have sized and then trimmed to length) until the die touches the shoulder of the case, then back die off 1/2 turn, lock down lock-nut, and readjust seater.. Sometimes when the die is set too close it rolls the shoulder of the case.... ALSO check the OAL of your rifle and seat bullet back a bit, say maybe .010, or so.
Hm. Never heard that one before ... good tip, Hooligan. I always adjust seating die way down and then adjust the seater as needed. Will try this method.
snowdog650 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 12:03 PM   #4
mrawesome22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
After a few times being necked sized, all brass will become hard to chamber and will need to be full length sized.

Your manuals should state this clearly.
mrawesome22 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 12:22 PM   #5
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 3,113
Sizing or OAL. Using brass that has been fired in my rifle only, I check the OAL, and put the width of a nickel between my shell holder and sizing die. The 7mmRM headspaces on the belt, so there is no need to full size if the other two items above are ok.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 01:25 PM   #6
snowdog650
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 71
Quote:
After a few times being necked sized, all brass will become hard to chamber and will need to be full length sized.

Your manuals should state this clearly.
They do state this clearly ... but as I said in the OP, this is once-fired brass.

Thanks for the help, though. Will probably go and FL resize all of them and start over.
snowdog650 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 01:36 PM   #7
Chaz88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2010
Posts: 1,019
Had the same problem with some once fired 7mm Rem. Mag. brass. I think the problem was because some of it was used in my brothers 7mm and it fire formed to his gun and needed to be FL re-sized to fit in mine.
__________________
Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
Chaz88 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 01:43 PM   #8
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 9,197
On the cartridges where you could get a handloaded round to seat with force, could you notice any marks on the bullets? In the past, I've found that COAL doesn't mean a lot (with regards to closing an action) so much as does the ogive of the bullet. A bullet with a squatty tip doesn't have to be as long as cartridge with a slimmer bullet tip to give grief when closing the action.

Did you try to chamber any of the brass after trimming and after neck-sizing but BEFORE charging and seating a bullet? That might help track down what's going on.

Seems hard to imagine how a piece of brass that was fired and ejected smoothly from this rifle wouldn't then also chamber the same piece of brass later.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 02:20 PM   #9
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,841
I believe hooligan is correct.There is a crimp fearure built into seating dies.If you set thedie body to crunch the shellhoder,you are trying to put a heavy ctrimp on a non-cannelured bullet.This puts a severe end load on the brass.The shoulder collapses,and cantilevers the case body dia larger at the shouder.Measure the dia at the shoulder.

Tne shallow taper of the chamber locks tightly to the oversize dia of the brass as you force it forward.That is the difficult extraction.

Hint,put a feeler gage or washer or something in your die box.use it to repeatably tighten your die depth to nhe shellholder with a known clearance.
HiBC is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 02:22 PM   #10
Savage32-20
Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Posts: 80
Quote:
Could be just that when you adjust your "bullet-seating" die down, you seated it to tight... Turn the bullet seating die down on an empty casing (that you have sized and then trimmed to length) until the die touches the shoulder of the case, then back die off 1/2 turn, lock down lock-nut, and readjust seater.. Sometimes when the die is set too close it rolls the shoulder of the case.... ALSO check the OAL of your rifle and seat bullet back a bit, say maybe .010, or so.
I would have to say that this is the most likely suspect - I've had it on both REM280 (7mm express) and 30-06. I use the bullet seating die to also slightly crimp the top of the case. I'll do runs of 10-15 at a time without issue and then 1 case has a slightly harder neck than the others and instead of the end rolling into the crimp grove the shoulder will expand out ever so slightly.

If you really look for it you can see a slight bulge at the shoulder (may be only in one small section of 1 side) but it'll be enough to cause cambering issues.

Usually when I do this I just pull it back apart and scrap the brass and primer since I'm not sure if a FL re-size will fix the shoulder and make it fit properly. I've got about 300-400 cases laying (and gaining on every trip to the range) around so 1 or 2 scrapped every now and then doesn't bother me.
Savage32-20 is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 02:24 PM   #11
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 9,197
What brand is the neck-size die? If it's a Lee collet neck-only size die and you bought it in a 2-die set with a bullet seating die, then it came with the "Dead length bullet seating die" which won't apply any crimp no matter how you've adjusted it.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old October 11, 2011, 07:30 PM   #12
ligonierbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 791
+1 for Hooligan. How do I know? Three guesses. It doesn't take much, and the deformation is hardly noticable.
ligonierbill is offline  
Old October 13, 2011, 07:15 PM   #13
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: Hub of the Eastern Sierras
Posts: 237
Same problem

I had the same problem with my son's A-Bolt. Loads that worked perfectly in my M-70 would not work in the Browning. Believe me I tried everything. I called RCBS and sent the sizer die and five cases so they could check all the dimensions. They sent back a "small base" die and said to use that. Well, I did, and it worked just fine. To this day, my son loads and shoots using that set-up, no problems. Might be worth a look.

Must be some tight tolerances in those Brownings.

Last edited by Rifletom; October 13, 2011 at 07:18 PM. Reason: add:
Rifletom is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08991 seconds with 9 queries