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Old October 11, 2011, 10:15 PM   #1
awbrock
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IMR 700-X in 44 mag Paper Punchers

While putting together some paper punching loads, I ran across some weird looking data on the IMR Data site.

44 Remington Magnum
"200 GR. LRNFP CAST IMR 700-X .430" 1.570" 4.3 818 11,700 CUP"

4.3 gr as a max load.

44 S&W Special
200 GR. CAST LRNFP IMR 700-X .430" 1.450" 4.1 831 9,400 CUP 5.0 943 13,400 CUP

Starting load 4.1 gr.... Max Load 5.0 gr.

I found load data in the Hornady 7th edition for 180gr FP- Cowboy Bullets IMR 700X 5.2gr to 7.3gr.

All this brings me to the question: Does 6gr of IMR 700X sound unreasonable?

Question #2:

How much punishment can a S&W 629 take?

I stay with published data from the Hornady, Speer, Sierra, and Nosler Manuals, and the Hodgdon, Winchester, IMR data site.
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Old October 11, 2011, 10:27 PM   #2
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The data section for "cowboy action loads" are very, very light. They often assume you are using very soft lead projectiles and shooting for very low velocities, sometimes in vintage handguns.

So I'm not surprised the load data looks so weak -- everything listed under Cowboy Action loads is very weak, but safe.

6.0 grains? Also sounds light to me... The Hodgdon guide doesn't show data for a lead 200 grain slug, but it does offer data for a 200 grain jacketed bullet in .44 Mag, and the max load is a smidge over 10 grains.

6.0 grain of 700X under a 200gr slug in .44 Mag? Not going to bother an N-frame S&W in the slightest.
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Old October 12, 2011, 09:16 PM   #3
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That`s as good a low pressure plinkin powder as they come & my second favorite ,first is Hodgdons CLAYS.

Both of these powder work very good at low to moderate pressures , then ya reach a threshold & they get very spiky very fast !!!!

In (MY) Redhawk I stopped with 7.0gr. under a 429421 lead bullet.

Have fun ,Be Safe !!!
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Old October 12, 2011, 09:32 PM   #4
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I loaded 6 last night. Shot them this afternoon after ready the posts you guys left. When fired they felt kinda "squibish". I loaded 6 more after shooting the first 6. The second 6 were much stronger. I checked the powder measure before loading, 6gr just like last night. After I shot I checked 6 more throws from the powder measure. No variations. Kinda struck me as strange the first batch was like a weak 38 compaired to the second batch, more like a weak 357.

My wife even said the second batch sounded much stronger.

I guess the powder settled over nightin the first batch......?????

Dunno
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Old October 12, 2011, 10:06 PM   #5
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Well, I've not used 700x, but I would venture a guess that it's got a similar physical build as 800x -- and that means it probably SUCKS when metered from a mechanical powder measure.

What most likely happened isn't that anything in particular happened over night... just that you were lucky for 6 shots and not-as-lucky for the other 6 shots.

Metering powders like that is a hit/miss proposition, and frankly, it's not a great idea if you are near squibs or near max.

Pick a different powder or get in the habit of weighing each charge if you want more confidence in what you are building. That's one of the reasons that you won't find a lot of folks discussing all their plans and experience with 700x!
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Old October 13, 2011, 05:33 AM   #6
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700 & 800 x are completely different !!

700 is a sall flake similar to 231/hp-38 800 is the big flaked pain in the you know where !!!

But any powder can bridge or bind in the measure especially with small volume throws ,so we have to be diligent `bout double checkin behind ourselves !

I`ll say this though ,the bigger the case & the lower ya go the more sensitive it becomes (700 x) to the position in the case when fired & that`s the reason it`s no. 2 on the list .

Try pointin the muzzle down & bring it to target ,then muzzle up & down to target , any difference ????
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Old October 13, 2011, 06:54 AM   #7
Sevens
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Good call GP100Man, I had never used nor seen 700x outside of the can before.

Definitely doesn't seem like a popular powder.
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Old October 13, 2011, 07:28 AM   #8
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GP100man is confusing 700X with something else. 700X is large flaked, similar in size to Unique. Definitely not small like 231. It meters like crap in my powder measurer unless I get above 6 to 7 grains or so. What's strange is though it is similar in size to Unique and Clays, 700X doesn't measure well(binds, clumps, etc) Unique and Clays work fine. I gave my 700X to my neighbor because I couldn't stand using it.

I have never used 800X, so I can't comment on that.

Here's a pic of 700X

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Old October 13, 2011, 09:05 AM   #9
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Wow, I didn't realize that Alliant made a "Yellow Dot" to go along with Red, Green and Blue!
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Old October 13, 2011, 09:37 PM   #10
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Going to try the tilt down tilt up method you suggested, GP100 Man, mainly because this experence has struck the curious side of me. 700X was the first powder I saw when I looked up at my powder shelf, found a little data and went for it.

Getting ready to load a dozen with Unigue, then another dozen with 800X, maybe a dozen or two with 231.

I have pretty good loads with 296, H110, blue dot, and 2400 under 180 gr XTP's and Speer 300gr SP's. I just figured I'd try something with the new box of Valiant 200 gr RNFP's. Don't want to melt the base of my bullet with those Mag powders or lead my barrel while punching holes in paper plates.

Thanks for all of the replies. I didn't like the way the meter felt when throwing the charges with the 700X but they all checked 6gr even when I dumped them back into the powder scale.

I set my measure, checked 5 throws. Droped 6 loads, measured each of the 6 in the scale, then dumped each back into its case. Did this with both batches.

Thanks again for the info!!!
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Old October 14, 2011, 05:11 PM   #11
Jim Watson
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Agree with Gdawgs, 700X doesn't LOOK much different from Clays or Solo 1000 but it does not measure as well. I have a vibrator on my Dillon powder measure to get even reasonably consistent loads with it. Legacy powder from when I shot a lot of trap, using it up at 3.5-5.4 grains a whack in pistols is not like 17.5 in a 12 gauge.

Oh, by the way, Sevens; 700X is an IMR product, not one of the Alliant "Dot" series.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Oh, by the way, Sevens; 700X is an IMR product, not one of the Alliant "Dot" series.
My comment was tongue-in-cheek given the obvious yellow flakes scattered amongst the rest of the 700x in the attached picture.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:29 PM   #13
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Oh, humor.

There IS an Alliant Clay Dot imitation of Clays. Presumably with clay colored granules.
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Old October 15, 2011, 12:07 AM   #14
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Update:

I decided to go with 6.3gr of 231 nice, clean, and consistent. The Unique at 6.8gr would be my second choice, a little dirtier, but consistent as well.

I dunno if it is just the cylinder of this particular gun or if any of you S&W 629 shooters have a simular problem. Some of the fired caseings have a "smut" streak almost all of the way back to the head of the case. Is this normal? Happens with factory ammo as well.
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Old October 15, 2011, 12:16 AM   #15
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IMR 700X meters very well in my MEC 600
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Old October 15, 2011, 04:46 AM   #16
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Just for the record

I said 700 was similar to CLAYS , more similar in burn characteristics than size & if ya want a truely tuff metering powder try Unique,Herco or 800x there flakes are twice the size of the 700 in the pic (nice pic Gdawgs , was the camera on macro ??)

A fix for powder drops ,well for most is to cover everything with no.2 pencil graphite.
I have added 1/2 teaspoon to a # of 800x to get it to meter better & it did help with no affect on velocity . As far as adding a bit of graphite goes ,why do ya think most powders base color is gray or black ????

Take some 231 & rub it between ya fingers , that`s rite it`s graphite !!

As far as bridging fix ,I used a flap wheel made from a dowel rod & 400 sandpaper to polish & remove minut burrs from drop tubes then cover with graphite to offer a bit of rust protection.

Also I treat the inside of powder measures with powdered graphite to releive static tension on plastics & smooth the inside painted surfaces a bit .

I have very little trouble droppin accurate loads EXCEPT with Unique !!!
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