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Old October 4, 2011, 03:04 AM   #1
poline
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Head space and waterproof sealing.

Another thread addressed the sealing of ammo by suggesting vaccum sealed bags. One person suggested clear nail polish around the primer and the case mouth.
I did not want to Hi-jack the thread by asking the following question: Will clear nail polish around the case mouth affect the way the rd headspaces on the rim of the brass. 45ACP, 9MM, .380ACP and such.
Hope this an alright question to be in this forum.
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Old October 4, 2011, 03:18 AM   #2
Jimro
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Yes, it will affect headspace on rounds that headspace off the case mouth.

Someone suggested Ortho tree pruning seal for sealing the bullets, which has got to be pretty similar to the "sealing pitch" military rounds use for pistol bullets.

nail polish or commercial primer sealer is fine for primers.

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Old October 4, 2011, 07:40 AM   #3
Don P
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Or ammo can be stored in military ammo cans readily available on the net and at gun shows. Toss in a desiccant bag and you should be good to go.
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Old October 4, 2011, 08:48 AM   #4
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I suggest avoiding sealants at the case mouth juncture.
They are fine on primers.
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Old October 4, 2011, 10:19 AM   #5
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There's a lot of tolerance (slop) when it comes to headspacing auto pistol calibers. If you have a good calipers, measure the depth of your chamber and compare it to the length of your brass, then compare either to SAAMI standards.
I haven't read of any problems with all that military ammo and premium self defense ammo that has been sealed at both ends. Even practice ammo used to be sealed years ago, probably dropped for cost reduction.

The 1911 earned it reputation for reliability in several wars shooting military ammo that was sealed at both ends.

Much ado about nothing.
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Old October 4, 2011, 06:57 PM   #6
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I wouldn't seal the case mouth / but I suppose, if I really needed to ..I'd consider sealing the primers...

but why are you doing this ? What is your concern ?? What are you trying to accomplish ??
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Old October 5, 2011, 08:06 AM   #7
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My Step-dad passed away a few years ago and my mother has allowed us to finally clean out some of his things. Inside his drawer was a box of .38 Special ammo with a little note inside the box. It said it had been reloaded in 1969.

That ammo, judging by the stains on the box, had seen some pretty severe conditions. The lead had turned white. It followed him to Missouri back in '93 and sat in house until just a few months ago. I put it in the tumbler to clean the lead up and it shot just fine.

As far as I could tell, there was nothing on the primer to seal it and the way the lead bullet had turned white, nothing there either.

When I was in the military, we fired .50 cal ammo that had been packaged in 1949. When opened, the ammo looked fine and shot fine.

I store my stuff in military ammo boxes with the desiccant packs and have noticed no problems.
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Old October 5, 2011, 01:10 PM   #8
poline
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(why are you doing this ? What is your concern ?? What are you trying to accomplish ?? ) I just think, from time to time, that I would like to seal some pistol ammo to prevent from it from going bad because of water or oil.
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Old October 5, 2011, 01:34 PM   #9
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Ok, that makes sense.../ but sealing primers takes a lot of effort...if you're talking about any volume of range or practice ammo like most of us reload ( a few thousand rounds ) ....

-----------------

from oil might be an issue ... ( but oils from your hands / or gunoil is no big deal ....unless something gets drenched...
------------------
but moisture isn't an issue either - as long as you store it smartly - like in an ammo box / or on a shelf where it won't get a lot of exposure to temp extremes or get damp...

If you're outside - and rounds get damp that are in your vest ..just wipe them down / let them air dry before you store them again .. If I had a box of ammo outside / and it got a lot of rain on it ...I'd just take the rounds out of the box - dry everything off ...let it airdry and I'm confident it would be fine. I wouldn't put ammo back in a wet cardboard box or anything ...that isn't smart.
-----------------
I wouldn't go to the trouble of sealing them...
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Old October 5, 2011, 02:12 PM   #10
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+1 ^^^
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Old October 5, 2011, 02:26 PM   #11
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The ammo company's sealed the primers with a nail polish type of sealant. The bullets were sealedby asphalt applied during the case mfgr. This was done long before the case was loaed with powder and bullet. The asphalt had a drying/curing time so as not to dammage powder/primer.
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Old October 5, 2011, 03:24 PM   #12
poline
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In 1996 I purchased 150rd of CBC (Brazilen) ammo. 102 rds workded fine and went bang, when I pulled the trigger. 48 Rds did not, primers did not work. All of these rds had a green sealen on the bullets and primers and when I pulled the bad rds, to use the 230 gain bullets...45 acp, the powder was GI green color. This has always made me consider the idea of sealing a few rds.
Fellows, thank you for the replys.
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Old October 5, 2011, 03:48 PM   #13
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But you're talking about ammo made in Brazil ...that may have been junk in the first place / with questionable primers ...and who knows what kind of powder.... and that was only from 1996 ( or 15 yrs ago )...

I still have some odd-ball ammo ....that was purchased in the 1960's ...rifle ammo for a .30-40 Krag that I rarely shoot / .30-06 ammo that I rarely shoot now ....even some old shotshells ...in 2's and 4's ...in paper cases...( and periodically, in the last 5 yrs or so / I've taken some of it to the range ...and its all fired 100% ). But it was a combination of Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc ammo ...not stuff made in Brazil.

I still don't think you have anything to worry about - for ammo you reload / assuming you store it properly. I go thru a lot of reloaded ammon on my handguns and shotguns ...and none of it stays on my shelves more than 6 months.

But one of my boys found some old reloads on shotshells - in the back of his safe / and his safe is in his garage - and has damp air around it / they were stored in standard Win cardboard boxes - he and I made up in 1988 - we even put labels on them ....and he brought them out 2 wks ago - and they fired 100% as well ...and 23 yrs old ...

so I can appreciate the issues you had with the Brazilian stuff ....but I doubt your own reloads are going to have the same issues.

Maybe consider a test .... load up 20 rds...( no sealers ) / leave them outside in cardboard boxes / let them get wet ...for a couple of weeks or even hoze em down good / wipe them off ...and run them thru a gun (carefully !! ) single fire ....and see if they run 100% or is you have any issues ? My bet is, they'll fire 100% ....but be careful ...so you don't get any squibs...
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Old October 5, 2011, 07:18 PM   #14
poline
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00ps the ammo i brought in 1996 was made in 1961!!
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Old October 6, 2011, 10:23 AM   #15
BigJimP
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That - plus it was from Brazil ..,.might be a big part of the deal..../ and between 1961 and 1996 - you would have no way of knowing how it was stored....

I still don't think you'll have a problem on your own reloads.../ that would justify the time of sealing them ...but its your ammo / and you should do what you want.
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Old October 6, 2011, 11:55 AM   #16
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I thank all of you for your advice and replys. THANK YOU
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Old October 6, 2011, 02:21 PM   #17
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Since this is a recurring question, here's a recurring answer:
Some of my reloads have made it through the rigors of the washing machine, hiding out in a pocket of dirty range clothes, and always fired off just fine.
Ammo is just about indestructible.
So, don't sweat it.
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Old October 6, 2011, 04:30 PM   #18
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To the O.P.

Quote:
In 1996 I purchased 150rd of CBC (Brazilen) ammo. 102 rds workded fine and went bang, when I pulled the trigger. 48 Rds did not, primers did not work. All of these rds had a green sealen on the bullets and primers and when I pulled the bad rds, to use the 230 gain bullets...45 acp, the powder was GI green color. This has always made me consider the idea of sealing a few rds.
Fellows, thank you for the replys.
I had litteraly 1000's of green dipped 45 acp bullets my gun smith buddy had pulled... they were known to have had bad primers right from the start... Brazillian 45 acp cases...

I've been deer hunting many times where it sleeted all week & my ammo was soaked... it all went bang when it had to...

I've seen unsealed ammo dropped in 5 gallon buckets of water for days, get pulled out & function fine...

personally I don't have a problem sealing a few rounds, but I think if someone sold you that green bullet ammo, they knew full well it was reject ammo, & I think you're worrying about it too much...

I've used 1000's of primers stored in the basement on a shelf ( many many years with no air conditioning, or dehumidifier in the basement )... I'm using one of those bricks for my CAS ammo bought new in 1993, not stored well, & still not one bad primer
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Old October 7, 2011, 12:30 AM   #19
poline
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(they were known to have had bad primers right from the start... Brazillian 45 acp cases...) Very interesting, thank you.
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Old October 7, 2011, 12:48 AM   #20
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More less wasting your time even thinking about sealing them. I've also took 20 year old reloads and shot 100 percent of them reliable without sealant. If done with quality components and done right they'll be fine.
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Old October 7, 2011, 05:59 PM   #21
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"from time to time, that I would like to seal some pistol ammo to prevent from it from going bad because of water or oil."

Don't store it in a bucket of water or oil and all will be fine. If you're really worried put each box in a zip-lock bag.
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Old October 8, 2011, 09:20 AM   #22
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You'll be just fine if you put them in an ammo can and store it under reasonable conditions.... fine for decades. However, I can understand that ensuring reasonable storage for decades could be an issue. So, if you seal them with a vacuum sealer and THEN put them in an ammo can, they should be good... pretty well forever. I guess I might put a desiccant pack in each bag.... but I can be a little OCD at times.
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Old October 8, 2011, 01:02 PM   #23
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I had some Blazer aluminum case .40 ammo go bad after spending 3 days in a wet plastic bag. I got caught in a rainstorm, spilled a box of blazer on the bech in the rain, scooped it into a plastic bag and forgot about it until my next trip to the range. About half of the twenty or so I tried failed to fire (wet primers), those that did fire, fired normally, so there was no evidence water was getting past the case mouths.

Maybe the aluminum cases didn't provide a good seal for the primers.

I seal primers occasionally on ammo I put away for that 'just in case', paranoid driven survival scenario, but I've never sealed case mouths.

But you do (did) see a lot of military ammo with the red lacquer sealant at the case mouth. All that early Russian surplus ammo had it too. Never had a problem with it or heard of it causing any problems.

Premium self defense ammo like Gold Dots are sealed at both ends, but some like Cor Bon are not sealed at either end.

If you want to seal some ammo 'just in case', go for it. The sealant Midway sells is plenty thin and shouldn't bother head spacing at all. Sealing the primers is pretty quick and easy with a small artist's paint brush.

Last edited by Hammerhead; October 8, 2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old October 8, 2011, 02:16 PM   #24
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I have sealed ammo (primer and case mouth ) with
George & Roy's primer sealant and have tested for
any feeding problems, there were no problems

only use this sealed ammo where I expect extreem conditions

( It only took 20 minutes for the air boat to get where it
broke down and 4 hours to walk, wade and swim back
out for parts, wile waiting for a secound air boat ( to take me
back to my air boat ) I tried to fire my pistol ( killing time)
I had 3 out of 12 rounds miss fire (bullets were stuck in barrel)
I beleave the powder got wet, from that time on the ammo I
carry for self defense has been and will be sealed )

also seal hunting ammo ( 308,3006 and 8mm Mauser )
and have had no problems with sealant
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Old October 11, 2011, 05:47 AM   #25
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I had one of my cowboy 45 colt loads go through the washer & dryer... had one in my pocket I forgot about it... will see if it goes off this week... I suspect it will... but ???
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