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Old October 7, 2011, 11:13 AM   #1
KnightofCydonia
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Lee Enfield No4 Mk2 Question

Hi,

I have the choice of buying one of these with a bayonet for $350 (asking).




The ad has been up for 2 months and nobody has bought it. The seller told me about the rifle: ''the bore is bright and shiny with sharp rifling, as far as I can tell its a matching rifle the serial# on the receiver matches the bolt and I didn't find any other serial #s, I don't know wich year it was made maybe 1950 if I am looking at the right # and its made in Fazerkely.''

So is there a catch or is it a good deal?
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Last edited by KnightofCydonia; October 7, 2011 at 01:35 PM.
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Old October 7, 2011, 11:52 AM   #2
wogpotter
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In order.
#4 Mk2 rifle.
If the bolt matches the receiver number that is the important thing from a shooting point of view. However, there should be a matching serial number on both the bottom of the magazine & the underside of the front woodwork for it to be really be "all numbers matching".

Ask what bolt head number is fitted. The headspace was created by changing bolt heads so you want a low one, like a 1, or a 2.

Year of manufacture: should be on the left hand side of the receiver, not shown in the pictures.
There should be 2 lines of type, electropencilled.
Line 1: "No4 MK2"
Line 2: "UF ## A #####" (The hash-marks will be numbers)
The year is the 2 digits after the UF, or possibly PF letter code, for Fazackerly.

Bayonet, ho hum, which type?
Spike type maybe worth $10.oo these were being sold as tent-pegs for 50c once upon a time.

A blade type with numbers maybe matching the rifle? A few bucks more but not a huge deal unless it has the scabbard & frog as well.

Assuming all is in good working order, no mangled parts, muzzle & so on in nice shape I'd go $350.

======================================
The #4 Mk1/2 is too high for me. I'd go maybe $350, same as the #4 Mk2.

Its a #4 Mk1 that was converted to a #4 Mk2 hence the 1/2 designation.
Dual-aperture sight, if the flip "L" type is wrong, it should have a screw micrometer type similar to the #4 Mk2. Missing magazine may be a problem. Enfields were matched to individual magazines, just grabbing "an enfield magazine" off a pile & shoving it in may not work well.

The stamps should include an "FTR" (Factory through repair) Britspeak for a complete rebuild. & a date the FTR was done.
AFAIK all the FTR Mk1/2 rifles were done at Fazackerly, but the rifle may have been built anywhere.

Same comments about numbers placement, bolt head numbers & so on apply as with the MK2.
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Old October 7, 2011, 01:14 PM   #3
KnightofCydonia
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Ok I got some more info on the Mk2.

Seller says: ''I took the rifle apart and I didnt see any other numbers anywhere else, the barrel has "Surrey" and "18.5tonne" and BNP marks with the crown and that's it, there are no #s on the magazine or the rear sight'' The bolt stamped "1", there is no # on the magazine, ''I have a pig sticker bayo with holder, and can give your 5 stripper clips and probably around 30pcs of brass''

I also have some more pics including the bore. It comes with a 'pig sticker' bayonet.


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Last edited by KnightofCydonia; October 7, 2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old October 7, 2011, 04:08 PM   #4
wogpotter
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I hope the seller knows how to put it back together correctly now he's dismantled it! Seriously it is a bit more complex than just tearing everything apart & bolting it back together again!

"Surry" is a county in England, maybe its some kind of club ID or something? I don't know of any such marking for an Enfield. "England" would have made more sense as it could be a U.S. Import mark.

"18.5 tonne" & "crown over BNP" are civilian/commercial British proof marks. Based on that the rifle was sold out of service to a commercial firearms dealer in the U.K. then sold to a U.S. importer.

OK my thoughts, based on the fuzzy pictures, the fact his descriptions seem to vary a bit from time-to-time & the fact it has been "scrubbed" (all the original information removed) I'd pass.
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Old October 8, 2011, 07:31 AM   #5
madcratebuilder
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I would say that MKII is worth about $250+/-. Barrel looks suspect, it may clean up OK.

The last MKII I bought I paid $350 but it was special, I already owned it's twin sister.

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Old January 29, 2013, 10:33 PM   #6
142eng
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There seems to be alot of real experts out there - i am new to the enfield rifle and am trying to figure out the story behind the one i just picked up. I know its not worth much - its real beat up and seen alot of use but the marks don't seem to match much of what i have read about it.

one the left side of the bolt it is marked - no4mk2 (
- just behind the screw head on that side is what i think is the serial number - 2134 no letters just the number. The only other marks i can make out is on the brass butt plate - M23S

in the stock on the right side it has 405 horizontal to the butt plate and on the left side it has 4/2134 horizontal to the barrel.

there is a mark on the strap - but i can't make it out. also on the bolt it appears to have the mark - FY?K11. any ideas on where this was made?

Sorry - i made a mistake - its a No4MK2,

Last edited by 142eng; January 31, 2013 at 11:47 AM.
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Old January 30, 2013, 08:29 AM   #7
wogpotter
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We're going to need pictures, there is no such thing as a No4 Mk4
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Old January 31, 2013, 12:04 PM   #8
142eng
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sorry

I made a typing error in my last post - its a No4MK2 (sorry). I did find a bit more engraved on the business end of the barrel. its difficult to make out but i think it is - top line = 303 U KING bottom line (only top halve is clear) CAL ST AIR VT. As i rub the oil in i might find more
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Old January 31, 2013, 12:36 PM   #9
wogpotter
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How about this for a "translation"?

On the end of the barrel:
"C.A.I. ST ALB VT"
".303 UK"

Means imported by Century International Arms St Albans Vermont, its the required post 1968 U.S. "import stamp". The caliber is still .303 British.

I'm guessing whats on the "left side of the bolt" is actually on the flat side of the reciever, not the actual bolt itself? Similar to the picture madecratebuilder posted.
Probably something like this: (replace the "x" with other letters/numbers as needed.)
"No4 MK2 ROF (F)"
Then probably a serial number issued by CAI during import. (the "4/2134") as there are no No4MK2s I can find with numbers like that, most were either "PF" or "UF" followed by a year's last 2 digits, a space then a number starting with an "A".
Like this:
"UF 55. A189xx"

If I guessed right thats a Lee Enfield No4 MK2 rifle made at the Fazakerly (Birmingham) factory in the 4th month of some year between 1949 & 1955 when production ceased. Some had dark, or dark stained light wood, some were left blonde (with light colored wood).
Heres mine with the light wood:


There should be numbers elswhere as well. on the back flat of the bolt handle, on the bottom of the magazine & under the wood at the front end, halfway between the end cap & the middle band. If the numbers are the same its a "matching" rifle, having all its original components, if not you should get it checked for headspace before firing it. I cant help with the numbers on the wood, they're probably "rack numbers" telling where the rifle was to be returned for storage after use.
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Old February 1, 2013, 08:37 AM   #10
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Then probably a serial number issued by CAI during import. (the "4/2134") as there are no No4MK2s I can find with numbers like that, most were either "PF" or "UF" followed by a year's last 2 digits, a space then a number starting with an "A".
Like this:
"UF 55. A189xx"
CAI is terrible about adding new serial numbers, I avoid those. Faz changed from the MkI to the MkII in early 1949. Serial number around PF50XXX, maybe closer to PF60XXX

The six digit PF serial numbers started late 1952 or early 1953?? With the contract series starting at PF301548 and going to PF411471
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Old February 1, 2013, 08:45 AM   #11
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There were blonde No4T's during WW2 also ... I've got one. There are a few pics getting around, one of the best is in Anthony Beevor's book 'D-Day'. It shows a British Sgt cleaning a blonde No4T with a pull through during a lull in the Bocage.

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Old March 10, 2013, 07:20 AM   #12
Tikirocker
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Mine is indeed a rebuld/restoration, many the same as mine were sold by a well known dealer in our country and I am not alone in owning one. Anthony Beevors book 'D-Day' shows a beech stocked No4T being cleaned by a Sgt

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