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Old November 19, 2011, 03:49 PM   #151
therealdeal
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yeah that one guy posting everywhere I was gonna call BS myself // glad it was handled
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Old November 21, 2011, 05:48 PM   #152
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This says at that time Horses were more dangerous than dogs: http://www.anapsid.org/pdv-boid.html

I hate quoting wikipedia but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764212.html

This has nothing to do with not killing anything, it has to do with not killing everything.
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Old November 23, 2011, 04:39 PM   #153
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Victim Goes Home

Shashi Sharma, the 62 year old woman mauled by pitbulls in the incident that prompted me to start this thread, was discharged from the hospital on Nov 23 after undergoing five separate surgeries for the Sep't 29th attack. Part of her injuries included the de-gloving of her left arm.

One pitbull was shot and killed by police on the day of the attack. The second pitbull was found and destroyed by police several weeks later. The dogs' owner has not been identified.

I appreciated everyone's comments and input.
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Old November 28, 2011, 11:08 AM   #154
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My point is not that an attacking dog should be coddled. My point is that the vast majority of dogs that approach are not actually attacking, and that a distinction should be made between an approaching dog vs an attacking one.
My thought when I read this was a simple, ok, but just how does one gain the wisdom to know the difference ? Mistaking a simple advance with a cautious attack can result in severe injury.

Today I read
Quote:
Dogs are earthbound, so they need their pack to hunt effectively. And when a threat triggers their fight-or-flight response, they are more likely to react with aggression because their ability to flee from a predator is limited.
from D Karen Becker:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-kar...ight_Or_Flight

This leads me to conclude that that 'Approaching dog' might actually be an 'Attacking' dog that is attacking cautiously. I think it better to be prepared for the worst when a strange dog approaches.
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Old November 28, 2011, 11:46 AM   #155
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I'm sorry, Hook, . . . this lady may be a great vet, . . . but her "facts" are as far as I am concerned, . . . far more "opinion" based on some anecdotal event in some days past.

Dogs have an excellent memory, . . . my Norwegian Elkhound had not seen his original owner for several years, . . . yet absolutely knew him when he stopped by for a visit. Maybe not all dogs (like people, too) have great memories, . . . but to paint them all with a 1 hour brush, . . . she needs to get in another line of work if she's depending on that stuff for a living.

Her "earthbound" theory is rubbish too: dogs in their natural habitat, are predators, not prey. THAT is the reason they will at least come toward you or I.

Dogs have 3 responses to other animals 1) the other is prey, attack it; 2) the other is a competing predator, attack it; or 3) the other is an overwhelming threat, flee. Obviously, . . . 2 out of 3 are bad for the object, . . . and most dogs I have ever been around are not afraid to attack anything, regardless of size, if the "attack" button has been pushed.

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Old November 28, 2011, 04:54 PM   #156
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Dogs have 3 responses to other animals 1) the other is prey, attack it; 2) the other is a competing predator, attack it; or 3) the other is an overwhelming threat, flee. Obviously, . . . 2 out of 3 are bad for the object, . . . and most dogs I have ever been around are not afraid to attack anything, regardless of size, if the "attack" button has been pushed.

Dogs have a few other reactions to an animal (in this case your dog) that are worth mentioning:
1. Dog same sex competition. Things might initially be friendly, but might then turn into a dominance competition. This starts out with some same sex humping, tail raising, and then can turn into a full on fight. Relevant if you are walking your dog.
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Old November 28, 2011, 06:25 PM   #157
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Given the source of the quoted material, The Huffington Post, I'm not inclined to think of it as authoritative. Like all such sources, some of what they say is bang on, too much of their material is unsupported opinion. I treat information from them, 60 minutes (especially 60 Minutes' dismal record in health reporting), and Fox for that matter, as unreliable. I would probably look for a more authoritative source. Your job is to find one on this topic - I'm too lazy.
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Old December 31, 2011, 01:45 PM   #158
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I am for dog rights too. Let's face it, they get some bum luck sometimes.
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Old January 26, 2012, 06:05 PM   #159
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I think several thoughts should go into ones mind when shoot a dog. Peter Capstick Hathaway, the writer of great hunting books like "death in the long grass" and "death in silent places" wrote in a story of an attempted lion attack in long grass. As Hathaway wrote, a hunter in Africa cannot shoot a lion unless someone is literally being eaten. Although in the story Hathaway did kill the lion, one of the clients took the lion on his game card to avoid miles of red tape. With all of the "animal lovers" in america today I would go so far as to believe as to think that this was an unwritten law in u.s. courts. As it has been brought up earlier, collateral damage is also a HUGE factor. Even if you dont hit someone, you can plan on being sued. Its a hard question to answer. I guess thats why I carry two knifes all the time, one for general purpuse and one for defense only.

Btw, read some Capstick sometime, especially if you love african hunting. You can literally feel the hunt, or being hunted. good stuff.
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Old January 26, 2012, 07:38 PM   #160
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My woods carry gun has always been 10mm. Black bear is the single largest predator I may run into, but in reality, dogs are the single biggest threat. Always have been, as there are precious few fences around properties up north. So I wanted something that may fare well against blackie, but is controllable by me on smaller threats as well. The Delta Elite served me for over twenty years and has now been supplanted by a more packable Glock 29.

Been approached by many; haven't had to shoot any. Made some friends, though.
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Old January 29, 2012, 06:37 AM   #161
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Often, I'll carry my Ruger .41 BH, or a .380, .38 snub or a .45 if I am out walking on the road. What I carry depends upon the season and clothing, as I conceal my weapon. I have met a TON of dogs, pittbulls, Rotty's, Dobermans, junk-yard mutts, some quite aggressive, and never even considered drawing my weapon. When I carry, dogs are not my primary concern. I would hate to hurt or kill someones pet if it could be avoided.

All the dogs I have met on the road ARE pets. The collars are a dead give away. Perhaps I have just been lucky. When you walk in front of a driveway, the dogs think YOU are the threat and or on their turf, thus they bark, and approach. The vast majority of the dogs are just saying hello, and although barking and coming towards you, they are not getting ready to bite. I have found (pehaps I have been lucky), that a loud, deep, command voice yell "HEY", or "HI", stops them, even the aggressive ones that act like Cujo. Dogs sense fear. Don't show fear. Use a command voice and keep on moving.

If you don't have a command voice, or have difficulty concealing your fear, instead of Pepper Spraying the dog and getting it's owner all riled up, or shooting it(!), why not carry a few doggy treats or a cookie or two in your coat pocket? Toss it to the dog and keep moving. A bag of meat flavored dog cookies is quite a bit cheaper than a civil lawsuit (if you shoot the dog), or a trip to the hospital (if the dog bites and or mauls you), or the hassle of dealing with the police if you Pepper Spray it and the owner files a complaint. Plus, the next time you walk by, the dog will remember you as a "Friend". Just don't forget the cookies!

After reading a few of these previous posts, I'm glad some of you folks don't live in my neighborhood, because I'm afraid you would end up blasting my neighbors dogs to hell when you don't need to...LOL!

Last edited by shurshot; January 29, 2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old January 29, 2012, 08:41 AM   #162
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Shurshot I agree with you almost 100%. The first elemental command that every owner teaches their dog is "sit." If you yell this loud enough, most dogs will stop dead in their tracks. I've used this dozens of times on dogs charging me and it has worked every time. I also crouch a bit--they tend to be more aggressive towards a larger target I've found.

My opinion is that it is fairly easy to tell between dogs that are trained specifically to attack (though in most areas I believe it is illegal to do that and not have 100% control and warning signs at all times). These dogs will growl, bare their fangs with gums drawn back and hackles raised the moment they see you and rush you without slowing down as they get near. A "challenger" dog will almost always slow their charge down as they get near to see what you're about. I have a watch dog that behaves this way--though he is never out of my control off my property and has never attacked and bitten anyone or any other dog (without being attacked first).

I think it is fair to defend yourself with a weapon if you are fairly certain that you are about to be harmed--and make no mistake that certain breeds specifically trained to do so can maim or kill fairly quickly. Being a dog-lover myself, I would hestitate before dispatching a dog unless I was certain of the imminence of serious injury, just as I would before shooting a human.

My biggest fear is how I would respond if somebody shot or seriously harmed one of MY dogs--they are my kids and I feel just as defensive of my dogs as I do of any human family members. In general, I find dogs have more admirable qualities than most humans. When they go wrong, it's almost always because of their human owners. I live in Maine part of the year, and despite ordinances that dogs remain on leash under control of the owner when off their property in most towns--that law is widely ignored by many owners of the "let them be free" camp. These people in general do not care neither about their dogs nor what consequences their dogs inflict on their neighbors. Behind almost every trouble dog there is a scumbag human.

Last edited by hangglider; January 29, 2012 at 09:01 AM.
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Old January 29, 2012, 05:14 PM   #163
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I'm a dog lover like anyone else. Have two outside dogs running loose on about two acres surrounding our house in the country but they have a game fence so cannot get out. That said, I think alittle different. At a dog coming towards me like he is fixing to attack, the command I give him is a bang bang bang. In his yard, my yard or public. I went to a call about two months ago , dispatch said man and women were fighting inside a house with a knife. As I arrived and fixing to enter the door a pitbull dog came out and was growling at me from about ten yards away. I grabbed my pistol and was fixing to drop him and he just quit and went to other end of house. Then entered and broke up parties. But I would lose no sleep over shooting your dog, my dog or nobody's dog to prevent a maul or even an attempt. If theyre aggressive to me with a gun they'll be agressive to an infant or a woman without one on many occasions.
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Old January 29, 2012, 06:07 PM   #164
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This is a subject i have given a lot of thought to since friday. Friday afternoon
I left work and was heading to my fiances house, I entered through the garage as usual and there was a god there I had never seen before. I thought it was odd but there are 4 people living in he house and just assumed one of them had gotten a new dog. It just watched me walked through the garage and when I went to grab a drink from the refrigerator that was in the garage on the way in the dog latched on to my right hand.

The dog (which was some sort of pit bull mix i learned later) dragged me to the ground and started biting my leg and back side as I was trying to get my gun that i carry everyday. I wasn't able to grip the gun do to the damage to my hand so i dropped it. At that time after maybe a minute at the most (felt like an hour) people in the house heard what was going on and pulled the dog off me.

I will save the gruesome pictures but this is what I am in now until I can get the tendons in my hand surgically repaired on Wednesday.



The owner of this dog was the friend of my fiances roommate and thought he would "train" this dog to be a guard dog. The dog was wagging his tail after his owner got him. I 100% do not blame the dog for this, I own 5 large dogs and one fluff ball and the owner/ "trainer" is at fault.

I honestly not sure what there is to learn from this as far as tactics go but it just shows you don't ever really know what a strangers dog is going to act like. Maybe I have become too trusting of dogs as a dog lover and need some advice for the future.
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Old January 29, 2012, 09:16 PM   #165
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Very unfortunate--your friend and the owner, IMO, are liable for what the dog did and should at the least be fully prepared to pay for all care, lost wages, etc. I wish you a speedy recovery and am glad you came through this with your basic love of dogs intact.

Many people have dogs and treat owning them like having goldfish--they think as long as they feed them and let them run free every now and then that is taking care of them. Many breeds have special attention needs that other breeds don't. Shepherds and pits need special attack/aggression control and training--otherwise they can turn even on the "home pack." Golden retrievers and labs are in general gentle and loving animals around children. Collies and huskies need constant room to run. The owners need to be prepared to meet those special needs--they are responsible one way or another for how their pets behave. I believe that's why you see so many dogs running wild--and are either shot, hit by cars or end up at the local animal rescue with a high probability of euthanasia. It turns out that dogs are more care than many people can or are willing to provide. It is pitiful--and a major reason why I tend to be cynical of human behavior when it comes to dogs.

Pits and pit mixes--while often affectionate to their owners--are notorious for vicious attack instincts and that I believe is a major reason for their popularity. I think there should be "dangerous breed permits" as a precondition for owning a breed like that.

Last edited by hangglider; January 29, 2012 at 09:28 PM.
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Old January 29, 2012, 11:08 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbertron
The owner of this dog was the friend of my fiances roommate and thought he would "train" this dog to be a guard dog. The dog was wagging his tail after his owner got him. I 100% do not blame the dog for this, I own 5 large dogs and one fluff ball and the owner/ "trainer" is at fault.

I honestly not sure what there is to learn from this as far as tactics go but it just shows you don't ever really know what a strangers dog is going to act like. Maybe I have become too trusting of dogs as a dog lover and need some advice for the future.
I'm sorry this happened to you, and I agree it was the owners fault. I could completely understand going for a weapon in such an attack. I think I'd have done the same.

Was your other hand injured in any way?
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Old January 29, 2012, 11:23 PM   #167
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Quote:
Pits and pit mixes--while often affectionate to their owners--are notorious for vicious attack instincts and that I believe is a major reason for their popularity. I think there should be "dangerous breed permits" as a precondition for owning a breed like that.
The more it is being looked into the more it seems the owner trained this dog to be aggressive on purpose... and them brought him to someone else's home.
My fiance had arrived only minutes before me and was asking them about why there was a dog locked in the garage. Needless to say i will be contacting a lawyer.

Quote:
I'm sorry this happened to you, and I agree it was the owners fault. I could completely understand going for a weapon in such an attack. I think I'd have done the same.

Was your other hand injured in any way?
My left hand was not injured but after i dropped my gun i was really just trying to protect my vital spots and kicking him away. Thankfully i was wearing ski pants because of the cold which prevented some injury. As bad as it was it could have been worse though, if no one heard it or if it was summer and i wasn't wearing so many layers.
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