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Old October 10, 2011, 10:05 PM   #51
lomaxanderson
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I have found myself in actual fear for my life from two dogs...one on each arm and dragged to my knees...I wasn't armed but if I had I would have shot both..

And my dog is loved more than most people I know.
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Old October 10, 2011, 10:59 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomaxanderson
I have found myself in actual fear for my life from two dogs...one on each arm and dragged to my knees...I wasn't armed but if I had I would have shot both..
How did they attack you? Would you have been able to get to a weapon?
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:21 AM   #53
Jeff56
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Speaking as a former mailman in a previous century, I can tell you that pepper spray they give you at the USPS is a joke. If you can hit an attacking dog with that little stream of pepper spray you would make Annie Oakley look like Mr. Magoo. You have to hit them either in the nose or in the eyes. Good luck doing that.

I had to shoot a dog that was only partially pit bull once. I shot it with a 12 ga. loaded with buckshot from just a few feet away. It didn't even fall down. It just whimpered. Luckily I had a backup round which did finish it off. Pitbulls can be tough as nails.

Most dogs will back down if you look them right in the eye and intimidate them. Yes I know it is a challenge but it is also an act of dominance and "most" dogs will respond to it. And if you react well an adult human can almost certainly subdue an attacking dog. It will hurt like crazy but it's better than having certain body parts in the clenches of a pit bull (and that is what they will go for). You have to give them an arm to bite. You put your off hand and arm where the dog has to go through it first. The dog will bite that arm if it has the intentions of biting anything. Once he does you raise up his head and grab it by the bottom jaw. You then push away with your weak hand and pull toward with your strong hand. If adrenalin is on your side (and it certainly should be) you can break that dog's jaw and make it a helpless, dying animal. I told you it was going to hurt. You'll have a bunch of stitches and a lot of pain but it's better than being attacked where it really hurts.

If there's more than one dog though you're in trouble. That's why I never walk or ride my ATV without some hardware of some kind. I was chased by a pack of dobermans once. It was a mother and a whole litter of nearly full grown pups. I was just lucky I had room to hit the gas and move on down the road faster than they could chase me. Those dogs could have easily killed me. And getting to your gun quickly is something you really need to practice because without being able to do that you're in trouble with a pack of dogs.

I knew a guy who kept about 25 dogs on his property to protect his "crop" (a real dirt bag who was my wife's cousin's boyfriend for a while) when the census lady came to visit. He wasn't there. She knocked on the door. She was about 90 at the time she died on that porch. Another elderly lady was killed not far from my farm. Dogs in packs are killers. They act completely different if they run in groups of more than just 2. If your dog is running with a group of dogs I would suggest stopping that activity before you end up paying through the nose for a dog attack on someone not to mention what they can do to an innocent person. I've seen pack behavior in just 3 dogs. I will never have more than 2 dogs as a result. Most of the time it isn't a problem but sometimes it is a big problem.
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:24 AM   #54
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I have three dogs, all mutts, each about 95 to 100 lbs. Pretty big dogs. I have to dispatch strays 4 or 5 times a year on the farm. A lot of Rabid animals in my area of SC.

When I was a child my dad and I were hunting and had a dog with a collar attack. Dad said it was Rabid, I never saw it. He jerked me behind him and fired with a 12 gauge. He went and told one of our neighbors what had happened and nothing else came of it.
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Old October 11, 2011, 08:58 AM   #55
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There is no room in this world for mean dogs. It's amazing the number of people out there that will go out of there way to make excuses for mean dogs and not shoot them but then will talk about taking the life of a mugger with a grin on there face. If you think it would be easier to kill a person than an animal you need help. Frankly, if you are legally carrying on PUBLIC ground and get attacked, cornered, growled at etc by a dog not only can you shoot it, you dang well better. You put me in possession of a gun and pepper spray with a mean dog in front of me and I'm grabbing the gun.

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Old October 11, 2011, 09:05 AM   #56
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L Killkenny, again, some of us are saying that a gun carries risks to others in the vicinity that other methods do not.

You go ahead and grab for your gun every time you feel threatened... Just pray that you are a good shot under stress, and with a moving target; and pray there is nobody downrange.

Me, I prefer graduated levels of force, at least as options. When your only option is a gun....
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Old October 11, 2011, 09:34 AM   #57
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I'm not saying to start spraying lead all over the shopping mall every time some little foo-foo dog barks and snaps. Anyone who would actually think that has no business with a gun and my post does not indicate that at all. What is does say is that we need to stop being such big nancy's about getting rid of these POS's. No room for em.

I've been attached by dogs, 3 at the same time to be exact, and you are right it is a lot tougher to maintain composed during that time. But still this attitude that it's bad to kill a mean or a potentially mean dog whenever possible needs to stop. Heck if I'm gonna try to restrain it, chase it away, etc.

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Old October 11, 2011, 11:28 AM   #58
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LK, there's a difference between "mean" and "potentially mean."

We've actually had one TFL member post that he considered spraying a dog that was barking at him from the other side of a fence, while the dog was within its own, fenced yard.

In other words, there are some folks on here at either extreme end.

I've corralled stray dogs ranging from pit bulls to mastiffs, but I've been pretty good at reading their language - lost, possibly even scared, but not mean. I wouldn't try to catch a dog I read as "mean." If forced, I'd shoot it; I don't carry spray, but on the few occasions I've encountered dogs I considered iffy (and I have a pretty high threshold) I have successfully employed the "pick up a rock and prepare to throw it" routine.

I've broken up some fights between very large dogs - but they were fighting each other, not attacking people, and even then it wasn't total bloodlust. It can be done, but there is some risk. Then again, there would be very serious risk attached to pulling a gun and shooting a dog at the puppy park...

There's a certain amount of risk assessment that should go into all this... risk to ourselves, risk to loved ones, risk to bystanders.

While there may be too many people out there with rose-colored glasses with regard to dogs, there are also too many people out there who think a gun is the solution to every potential threat. A quick perusal of T&T threads will show you all sorts of those.

Neither viewpoint is practical.
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Old October 11, 2011, 12:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
There is no room in this world for mean dogs. It's amazing the number of people out there that will go out of there way to make excuses for mean dogs and not shoot them but then will talk about taking the life of a mugger with a grin on there face.
I love animal pets,,,
My cat is more important to me than most people I know.

But I (like L_Killkenny) simply can not understand the attitude that I must evaluate and understand a dog's motive as to why it's growling and baring it's teeth at me.

I do a power walk late in the evening as an aid to sleep,,,
Many times I have been challenged by the presence of a snarling dog.

I would bet that most of these animals are someone's beloved pet,,,
In many cases I can see a collar on the dog,,,
I don't let my cat run loose at any time,,,
The dog owners should do the same.

Never the less, it is out in public space and threatening me,,,
I carry a decent pepper spray and a handgun,,,
So far the pepper spray has done the job,,,
But the moment it doesn't deter a dog,,,
I will shoot it with no qualms at all.

I am a human,,,
It is not.

Aarond
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Old October 11, 2011, 12:50 PM   #60
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When I started running two summers ago for the first time in many years, I had three experiances with dogs. The first was a very small white dog that came out of nowhere and started biting at my ankles. He was biting just hard enough to snag my socks. It made me kinda laugh although I wasn't happy about it. As I ran I heard a little old lady behind me about a hundreds yards away yelling stop, please stop. I stopped and she eluded to the fact it was my fault for running. She called the dog and when he begrudgingly got about half way back to her I resumed my run. I could hear her again. Stop please stop. By the time I turned around the dog was biting at me again.

A couple of days later I was out running and a police car was sitting at the end of my street. I asked the officer if carrying pepper spray was legal and if it would be effective against dogs. I new nothing at the time and did not have my CCW yet. The officer was very knowledgeable about pepper spray. Showed me the normal stuff they use and the crowd control spray, percentages and effectiveness of each. He said it was not only legal in our state but that his department highly recommended law abiding citizens carry it, and keep it in their home at each entrance. He said 10 percent pepper spray was very strong and very effective. I found the strongest being 18% wildfire spray and that's what I carry.

The second encounter with a dog was the same summer around a month later. A pit bull came running from a back yard and stopped about 10 feet in front of me. He was showing me his teeth and really growling. I pulled the pepper spray from my pocket, and feeling this was not going to end well just started pushing the button when the owner came around the side of the house, and the dog ran back to her without her giving a command. I missed with the pepper spray because the dog started to run back to her right when I started pushing the button. I wouldn't wish harm on anyone or any animal but must admit from time to time I wish I could have seen how effective the spray would have been.

The third time I encountered a dog running, the dog was behing a screen door, but it scarred me more than the other two encounters put together. He was huge, barking violently, and lunnging against the screen door like two rams butting heads. How he didn't come threw that door I still don't understand.

I never go for a walk or a hike without my pepper spray or my firearm now. Those three experiances all in one summer was enough to tell me animals can be just as much of a threat as a human. I will use the pepper spray if I think it can deter the attack, but If he has clamped down, or is a sizable animal, I think I'm reaching for the gun.
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Old October 11, 2011, 02:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham
I am a human,,,
It is not.
What does that have to do with anything? An animal is an animal. A life is a life. All you are pointing out is that as a human, you feel weaker than the dog and require mechanical force to overcome it.

Rabid animals aside, an animal posing a threat is likely acting under instinct or fear. The same fear and instinct that instructs humans to be defensive. I have never needed to use a knife to cut a dog off of me, and that's all I carry. I have no reason to shoot or spray an animal at a distance. A perceived threat, is not an actual threat.
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Old October 11, 2011, 02:41 PM   #62
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I also am a animal lover, but I'n the event that my own dog or anyone elses try to jump on me or threaten me or anyone else. I will drop it like a sack of potatoes That's good for those who like to pepper spray to stop the threat but i wonder who will be the next not so lucky person to be bit or who know what than if the aggressive animal would have been taken care of earlier. Just like home invasions, for those who give warning shots or whatever just to deter and the BG leaves there only to do the same (rape,murder,assault,robbery) to someone else. To me it just don't make sense.
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Old October 11, 2011, 02:49 PM   #63
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Pepper spray for Pits

When I was a younger man I had a Pit Bull. When he was about 18 months old a Doberman attacked him. I tried to separate them and got bit for my troubles. After about 5 minutes the Doby had enough but my dog wasn't about to let him get off so easily and continued to attack. A neighbor spayed my dog with Mace. (Before pepper spray) It slowed my dog down enough for me to get hold of him but I doubt anyone else could have stopped him. IMHO Pepper spray would work on most dogs but I'd want some deadly force back up just in case. A few years back my wife and I were walking and a Rottweiler came into the street and was pushing against me and displaying aggressive behavior. At the time I had no weapon other than a Swiss Army pocket knife. The owner of the dog was watching and seemed to think it was funny. I was able to talk sternly to the dog and get him to back down without using force. Now I always have a sharp folding knife with a +3" blade. sometimes I also have a gun.
My pit "Brutus" was one of my best dogs and I've had dogs for almost all of my 51 years. Due to the bred in aggressiveness I won't have another one though. They just love a challenge. Fighting is fun for them. I tried to keep my dog from fighting but it's not easy to over ride generations of breeding. My dog was never aggressive to a person who wasn't trouble. I'd hate to have a Pit Bull after me. They are very powerful dogs.
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Old October 11, 2011, 03:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
There is no room in this world for mean dogs. It's amazing the number of people out there that will go out of there way to make excuses for mean dogs and not shoot them but then will talk about taking the life of a mugger with a grin on there face. If you think it would be easier to kill a person than an animal you need help. Frankly, if you are legally carrying on PUBLIC ground and get attacked, cornered, growled at etc by a dog not only can you shoot it, you dang well better. You put me in possession of a gun and pepper spray with a mean dog in front of me and I'm grabbing the gun.

LK
I agree with this and some other good posters 100%. I am basing my opinion on the fact that I can tell the difference and I know when its justified. Let's be honest, one can get away with it w/regards to a dog when it isn't justified. I am talking about when I can tell the dog is mean and it is justified though. I wouldn't harm a mean dog unless I had to unless it was very, very prudent to do so(other people's safety).

MLeake, you make some good points but again, I am going under the premise where it is obvious the dog is a problem and there really is no grey area. Some people don't realize how easy of a scenario(and dangerous it can be//not referring to you MLeake). I am guessing usually geographical locations play a big part in this many times as well.

Lastly on the understanding bit, I have no qualms using my firearm in said situations. I think some people are generally real hesitant to use the firearm even when it puts themself in a greater, more precarious predicament. Again, I think geographical locations and also age can be major factors in this sometimes. Maybe fear and inexperience too...I am willing to bet I could snap a dog's neck if my life depended on it. A knife would be necessary for much more imminently critical situations, but the CCW is the way to go. I don't carry pepper spray, and I just don't plan on doing this to be animal friendly.
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Old October 11, 2011, 03:15 PM   #65
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just caught up

I would like to mention my last posting was written after finishing post57 and before reading the rest.


Quote:
Rabid animals aside, an animal posing a threat is likely acting under instinct or fear. The same fear and instinct that instructs humans to be defensive. I have never needed to use a knife to cut a dog off of me, and that's all I carry. I have no reason to shoot or spray an animal at a distance. A perceived threat, is not an actual threat.
blackfeather, he goes out of his way using the pepperspray & I give Aarond credit for that but besides that:

not all dogs are acting on fear. instinct yes as you said but they just get turned on like a lightswitch sometimes(often with buddies, "spouses", whatever).

I wouldn't shoot from growling...a growling dog especially alone is me just thinking out the scenario. my biggest worry are the ones that charge and make a beeline. They already have their mind made up. Some people train their dogs pretty viciously(and that word has a grey area of very vicious and very low-key vicious). Sorry for the wordplay. I know nice co-workers who claim that pitbulls need to be trained Very Strictly, so maybe all the pitbull lovers and defenders can admit this. My experience as these pitbulls and bulldogs many times(not always) have little or no training or very strict training. These dogs kill more people every yr than a lot of other things.

disclaimer: always loved dogs, never had issues worth significance, and I have never been afraid of dogs
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Old October 11, 2011, 03:29 PM   #66
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Animals are animals. That's it. I'n any event animal or human I'm looking out for my own safety and others. Alot of these dog attacks wouldn't happen if people would just keep their dogs I'n their own yards but I'd even shoot someones dog I'n their own yard to prevent them from doing harm to myself. We do have a right to defend ourselves
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Old October 11, 2011, 03:32 PM   #67
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Tailgator is indeed right, I have dealt with peoples dogs that did not like people at all, but never bothered me. My ex had a wolf that she picked specifically for his aggression. When she first introduced us I looked him straight in the eyes from a standing position, then sat on the couch.
I visited the "wolf people" in idaho between bonners ferry idaho and very north washington state border last summer while on vacation(easily closer to bonners ferry). She had wolves. She claimed that no matter how loving they are, they will lLways have the Wild instinct and wild in them and can't be trusted like other dogs(at the very least like a dog for the family cuz many people want them for family dogs). Bare in mind, these dogs were this woman's and her son's livelihood, life, and family. She mentioned this with the other supposedly "domesticated" dogs too: akita(I might be wrong with breed but basically the domesticated animals that are sort of like wolves). She actully told me to keep my son away from the cage. She said it would be bad news sooner or later if she got out. Some dogs do not see humans in a higher, untouchable light. It is a fact and people die every yr because of this. That is also a fact.
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:28 PM   #68
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I just dont see the problem where I live, stray dogs are put down by the land owner sees em chasing any livestock. The main issue is people driving out from the city and dumping their pets as if they will revert back to nature and thrive. After a few months on the run, they learn to dig in garbage cans for food, chase anything that runs away and looks like heck.

I just dont worry about a dog attaking me at any time.

Now them cougars, cayotes and skunks are another thing...dogs got sprayed last week by a skunk...
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:31 PM   #69
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Hello BlackFeather,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham
I am a human,,,
It is not.
Quote:
What does that have to do with anything? An animal is an animal. A life is a life. All you are pointing out is that as a human, you feel weaker than the dog and require mechanical force to overcome it.
No, you could not be more wrong,,,
That's not what I am pointing out at all.

I am pointing out that I am a human being,,,
My life/safety takes priority over the life/safety of any dog.

If the last Bengal Tiger in the world escaped it's habitat and threatened me or mine,,,
Bengal tigers would be extinct on that day if I had the means to do it.

In that same vein but on the opposite side of the situation,,,
If I caught someone in the act of trying to harm my cat,,,
I would have no qualms peppering him to submission.

In fact I might sit on him and make him drink the entire contents of the spray can
But I don't think I would end a human life for my cat no matter how fond of him I am.

Take a knee-cap?,,,
Maybe,,,
End his life?,,,
No.

Humans take priority over animals,,,
That's my entire point.

Aarond
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Old October 11, 2011, 05:52 PM   #70
BlackFeather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham
Humans take priority over animals,,,
That's my entire point.
How so?
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:38 PM   #71
WANT A LCR 22LR
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" Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham
Humans take priority over animals,,,
That's my entire point.

How so?
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OK I'll insert a not so random but relevant religious quote.

" . . And man shall have dominion over the animals of the earth. . " ( Or something like that )

It can also be argued that animals do not have a soul where as humans do.

A threat is a threat no matter where it comes from. I do not condone random killing of animals for no purpose, however if it comes down to them or me, I pick me.

I wonder how many of the don't shoot fido crowd have been attacked by a animal intent on killing them. If they have not, are they willing to get attacked by a aggressive animal to prove their point? The animal does not have to be a dog, pick one that can kill you. ( attacked as in blood drawn and no way to stop the attack other than killing the animal )

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Old October 11, 2011, 06:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham
Humans take priority over animals,,,
That's my entire point.

BlackFeather then asked, "How so?"
Very simple logic, . . . I am a human, . . . top adversary in the "survival of the fittest" routine.

If a dog, cat, possum, bear, mountain lion, or the last stinkin skunk on planet Earth decides to take on this old codger, . . . it just may be the last bad mistake it makes, . . . period.

I am not going to be a spray target or chew toy for any animal, . . . and that is my personal decision I have made.

I understand there are other points of view, . . . rationalities, . . . opinions, . . . this one is mine, . . . and if the animal doesn't like it, . . . then that is just too bad, . . . he shoulda been bigger, badder, quicker, or something.

I don't go out into the woods just to shoot anything that moves, . . . but I have my "dominion and domicile" and I protect it just as jealously as do the furry critters protect theirs. Trouble for them is, . . . I also carry a 1911 as well as teeth and nails.

May God bless,
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Old October 11, 2011, 07:05 PM   #73
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I am an experience former cable disconnector. I have had to deal with tons of viscious dogs. The worst ones were always at least in a pair, if not 3 or 4 dogs. I used pepper spray. Saber works very well. (Not easy to explain to the cops why you were in some one elses back yard, and shot thier dogs.)

Pepper spray works well, I cary postal dog spray, as well as sidearm when I walk my dog. It is one of those deals of better to have and not need. If I can make a dog leave us alone with the spray I am very happy. Less problems to deal with later.
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Old October 11, 2011, 07:31 PM   #74
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Quote:
What does that have to do with anything? An animal is an animal. A life is a life. All you are pointing out is that as a human, you feel weaker than the dog and require mechanical force to overcome it.

Rabid animals aside, an animal posing a threat is likely acting under instinct or fear. The same fear and instinct that instructs humans to be defensive. I have never needed to use a knife to cut a dog off of me, and that's all I carry. I have no reason to shoot or spray an animal at a distance. A perceived threat, is not an actual threat.
Biggest bunch of drivel I've ever seen posted on this site and the exact type of person I was refering to in my post. I thank you for standing up as a great example. Also a great example as to why I'm all for giving the CA. back to Mexico.

LK
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Old October 11, 2011, 08:16 PM   #75
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"Also a great example as to why I'm all for giving the CA. back to Mexico."

That's the best idea I've heard in years! Can we send the Muslims there too?
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