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Old September 22, 2011, 02:45 PM   #1
Coach Z
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Long term gun storage

I've got a cottage that I go to infrequently, sometimes only once every 18 months. I'd like to leave a carbine and maybe a pistol there. I've got dry boxes that I can easily store the ammo and a pistol in but I'm wondering about the rifle?

My crackpot idea is to get a pvc tube and lightly oil the gun but before sealing it fill the tube with co2 or nitrogen to completely remove all the atmospheric air.

Am I totally nuts? Any other solutions short of packing it in something like cosmoline?

Thanks
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Old September 22, 2011, 03:01 PM   #2
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Try this: http://www.break-free.com/?location=/products/index.asp

Look under "Civilian" and choose the link for "Collector"
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Old September 22, 2011, 07:14 PM   #3
Dfariswheel
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Here's a better method. This is how the military and industry now long-term store guns.

The special paper gives off a vapor that surrounds the metal and drives out moisture and air. It totally prevents rust for at least 10 years if properly sealed.
Best, you can simply open the bag, wipe out the barrel and use the gun with no degreasing or cleaning.

Make SURE you use the special plastic bags. Ordinary bags will pass moisture and air and will allow the vapor to escape.
I recommend wiping the metal with CLP Breakfree to neutralize any finger print

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1...P_trade__PAPER

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1...M_STORAGE_BAGS

OR, the new Brownell's bag and inhibitor:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...L_STORAGE_BAGS
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Old September 23, 2011, 03:01 AM   #4
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Perfect, because I was going to suggest Collector AND VCI bags.

http://www.polygunbag.com/
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Old September 23, 2011, 10:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
fill the tube with co2 or nitrogen to completely remove all the atmospheric air.
Nice to see that the firewalls at NASA don't block TFL

+1 on those anti-oxidation bags. I've used them in conditions where an exposed firearm will develop rust very quickly, and they've worked.
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Old September 23, 2011, 11:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Am I totally nuts?
Possibly, but this is a gun-related forum, so we can't or won't comment on mental instability of posters.

The way I see it, you have old and low-tech, new and high-tech, and the ease or simplicity of whatever you choose.

Vapor paper works well as long as the container is dry and sealed. If you choose your PVC pipe example, coating a gun with Break Free and putting it in a pipe is an OK idea, but probably not a great idea. There are better rust preventative treatments than light oil.

Easiest of all:
Every 18 months or so, when you go to the cottage, pick out a firearm to take along with you. No worries about rust or theft, just that warm feeling of being armed.

Old and low-tech:
* Outers Gun Grease or RIG grease, applied liberally over the external and internal surfaces will prevent rust for a long time. Since it is a relatively thin coating of grease, just wipe the gun down with a rag and/or solvent and go shooting.
* Cosmoline is an old and lower-tech approach, but YUCK!!! Why would you do that to a firearm? Besides, how do you go about getting the firearm into action quickly?

Kinda new and lowish-tech:
* Vapor paper (I'm sure it has a proper technical name) is available from Brownells and other sources, just wrap the firearm in a sheet of the paper, store in an airtight bag, and you're good to go for a long time.

Newer and higher-tech:
* Militec grease, works pretty well, no greasy feel.
* Gun storage bags are cheap and work very well. Nice thing about these is that you can leave the gun there for a long time without inspection and handling, and it is ready to go when you open the bag.
* Weapon Shield works well, but I would probably store the firearm in a good storage case with desiccant material after treatment. Your call.
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Old September 23, 2011, 11:28 AM   #7
F. Guffey
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PCV, PCV can be screwed together, glued or just fit together without a leak, most, when storing or protecting something/anything from moisture they drag out all the stuff sold in cans and bottles.

Back to PCV, add fittings, get a vacuum pump, put the PCV together, vacuum out the atmosphere inside the container then close the valve, no atmosphere, no moisture.

Or heat the container, fill the container with hot air from a hair dryer then seal the container.

Pistols: Heat an ammo can, pad the pistol, place in the hot ammo can and close the lid. The heat removes the atmosphere by expanding the air inside, when the air inside cools a vacuum is formed, outside atmospheric pressure will seal the can.

Or continue purchasing stuff in a can or bottle.

Inert gas that is heavier than air has been used to store food in 55 gal barrels for years, lids are used but most do not spend a lot of time sealing the top, tilting the container defeats the purpose.

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Old September 23, 2011, 11:38 AM   #8
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"My crackpot idea is to get a pvc tube and lightly oil the gun but before sealing it fill the tube with co2 or nitrogen to completely remove all the atmospheric air.

Am I totally nuts?"

Forgive, I omitted the quote.

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Old September 23, 2011, 12:17 PM   #9
Scorch
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Hot air carries more moisture, not less. This is why compressed air driers use refrigeration to achieve the -40 degree F dew point.

To try to remove moisture by vacuuming out a pipe would be interesting to watch. Ever hear what happens in a hyperbaric chamber? And you could probably not draw enough of a vacuum without a good pump.

Heating an ammo can and sealing it would be fun, especially the part of the process that involves opening the can. Let's see, assuming you draw 8 psi of vacuum, that would take abour 500 lbs of force to open.

Just a greasy gun in an ammo can with a bag of dessicant will keep it good for a decade or more.
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Old September 23, 2011, 01:22 PM   #10
Coach Z
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Nice to see that the firewalls at NASA don't block TFL
Nah, I'm just a yacht captain on a race boat team. But we get to deal with building big carbon race boats and always get to cook up fun solutions to whatever issues we run into.

We do deal with a lot of vacuum lamination and I don't think vacuum is a great solution due to issues of it will always try to equalize itself by pulling in outside air (and moisture).

I really like the vci paper.

I will admit I was a little disappointed when the first few replies were readily available off the shelf solutions. I felt a little silly
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Old September 24, 2011, 09:59 AM   #11
F. Guffey
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Scourch, In the real world I am surrounded by a few very talented people, those that are not are sitting home with a frown, arms folded with a closed mind.

If one thought heating a container to expand the atmosphere inside the container before closing the lid would or would not reduce the moisture inside the container someone would suggest heating a jar then after cooling place the jar in the refrigerator. Cooling the atmosphere inside the jar would cause the moisture to condense, if that did not work they would place the jar in the freezer, at a temperature between 0 and -13 degree, they would also close the lid on an unheated jar, there is something about going up in altitude that causes the atmosphere to loose its ability to hold moisture. Or a piece of paper could be dropped into the container that turns blue if moisture is present.

If one of them could not open a container because of the PSI thing one of the others would suggest the 'KEY' and of course the one trying to open the problem he created by expanding the atmosphere would ask "KEY"? Then one would ask, "How did you get that can into that condition in the first place"?

And those with a working knowledge of tools would install a valve to equalize the pressure inside and out.

Doubts about the vacuum: Ever time the subject is brought up on a reloading form the same responses is sure to follow, "The maximum vacuum can not be obtained my mere mortals, just like head space gages, head space gages are made on mars by Martins" Because they are precision ground?? The very talented group have the ability to measure precision and the head space gage is not in that category.

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Old September 24, 2011, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
My crackpot idea is to get a pvc tube and lightly oil the gun but before sealing it fill the tube with co2 or nitrogen to completely remove all the atmospheric air.
Nitrogen maybe. CO2, on the other hand, will react with any moisture left in the container to form a mild acid. Not a good idea.

I'd go with the vacuum as suggested above. A $150 vacuum pump from Harbor freight will pull all the moisture out.

Nah, I'd just clean and oil the thing. I don't consider 18 months to be "long term" storage.
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Old September 24, 2011, 12:25 PM   #13
F. Guffey
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Or find a used refrigerator with a good compressor on big item throw away day, A/C window unit or a dehumidifier, remove the compressor and sweat on some fittings.

I have installed automotive compressors on Briggs and Straiten edgers, the old 6 cylinder GM compressors are/was favorite.

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Old September 30, 2011, 04:33 AM   #14
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Cosmoline...secondary benefit is that it'll deepen your blue

Takes more aftercare in cleaning it out, but you DID want it to last forever, right?
Who knows, you might get busy and not be able to go out there for a year or two...

I also suggest burial in that tube...use a grave marker of a pet
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Old September 7, 2012, 11:24 PM   #15
Coach Z
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Update 1 year after storage with CLP

So I decided to try plain off the shelf CLP on a henry survival .22 because I figured if it rusted solid it's no great loss.

Just shy of a year later in an un-insulated cabin that the heat gets shut off in late october the gun looks perfect. I'm almost disappointed that the simple CLP worked so well when I'm always looking for the latest greatest solutions.
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Old September 8, 2012, 01:46 AM   #16
Bill DeShivs
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Flushing a container with nitrogen should work great, if the container is then sealed air tight.
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Old September 9, 2012, 11:02 AM   #17
F. Guffey
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Scorch, “Hot air carries more moisture, not less” hot air in Arizona does not have more moisture, there is a term used to describe moisture in air, it is referred to as ‘Relative humidity’, then there are terms to describe the rest of the story such as ‘due point’ as in describing the point moisture falls out of the air and then there is the point moisture becomes visible like fog and clouds. Swamp coolers work in Arizona, Swamp coolers do not work (efficiently) in Florida, to determine ‘how efficient’ one would need and understand the ‘wet bulb thermometer’.

That brings us to ‘my point’ heat the air, put the heated air in a non collapsible container, quickly close the lid , when the air in the container cools there will not be enough moisture to measure, but JIC, drop a small bag of desiccant in the reduced atmosphere of the container. High in the atmosphere there are no clouds, a cubic inch of air at sea lever could = a cubic yard high in the atmosphere. My point? Create an artificial atmosphere in the container, heat the air, place it in a container, close the lid.

Except for those that can get a perfect vacuum a vacuum pump reduces pressure, as pressure is reduced the boiling point of water decreases, back to keeping up with more than one thought at a time, in a vacuum of less than perfect water boils ‘just above ZERO degree Fahrenheit, back to keeping up with more thoughts at once, ‘@’ , meaning water boils @ near ZERO, in less than a perfect vacuum, working in the shop and or garage etc. the temperatures under most circumstances/conditions will be between 60 to 105 degree Fahrenheit. Or, for those than do not have a vacuum pump, heat the air, put the hot air in the can, close the lid, like magic, an articicial atmosphere has been created in a can without moisture, but, JIC (just in case) throw in a small container of desiccant.

A friend, smith, reloader, machinist called and said he had a problem with his sand blaster, I went over, took his system apart, I made changes, then installed a desiccant dryer system, After that? He sandblasted when the relative humidity was 100% outside. Then, after a year, things started to slow down again. I furnished him with three desiccant changes and suggested he save the supersaturated desiccant he removed, I can only guess he ask someone about the rational for saving the used desiccant, he called me to explain ‘it was not working’ and I ask what is ‘IT’, He explained he was making an attempt to recover the used desiccant but the procedure did not make sense, it was the time factor, I suggested making a vacuum chamber then heat it while placing a vacuum on the container.

F. Guffey

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