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Old September 19, 2011, 07:49 PM   #1
TINCAN
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open carry.. is a holster necessary to be legal?

I have a couple of questions for those familiar with open carry.

First off I’m from New Mexico where we’re allowed to open carry without at permit. I have a few different pistols. One of which is a Kel tec P-11 9mm with a belt clip attachment. Does anyone know if a pistol needs to be holstered or could i simply wear the pistol clipped outside the belt. This would expose the entire pistol and be as secure as most belt clip holsters.

..I understand that the best and safest way to open carry and a good holster is recommended.

I dont consistantly open carry and this would only be for emergency type carry.

just checking?


Thanks!

Last edited by TINCAN; September 19, 2011 at 09:25 PM.
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Old September 19, 2011, 08:25 PM   #2
Daggitt
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With all due respect , you should have a holster to be safe , even if it is not required. They make such great holsters to cover any sittuation that you are missing out if you don't get one. If you prefer IWB you ought to check out the new Remora IWB concealment holster. It is incredible. Goes IWB with no clip and if properly fitted , you could do cartwheels and it is fine. I don't understand why someone would not have a holster. I have heard too many stories about folks dropping guns when stuck into a waistband. You ought to check into a holster. It is the best way to go. Be sure it fits your gun. Onesize fits all holsters are not good. It should be tailor made for your model handgun.
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Old September 19, 2011, 09:17 PM   #3
Aguila Blanca
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Read your state law. If the law doesn't say that a holster is required to carry openly, then a holster is not required to carry openly.
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Old September 19, 2011, 09:23 PM   #4
TINCAN
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I read it.. it does not... I am going to look for a lightwight holster....


thx
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Old September 19, 2011, 10:56 PM   #5
JerryM
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The law does not require a holster, but common sense and safety do.
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Old September 20, 2011, 02:35 AM   #6
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Be very careful when you are in open carry mode. Depending on the State law. the enforcement and prosecutorial climate open carry without a CCW is iffy.

Some agencys have successfully prosecuted, convicted and jailed individuals for concealed carry when their shirt has worked out of their pants and fallen over the but of the pistol rendering the weapon not readily visible. This occurred in AZ which by most accounts is a gun friendly state.

Incidents like this is what led to the passage of universial concealed carry.
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:22 AM   #7
Edward429451
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I never thought of that. My wild guess would be yes and I think perhaps it would be due to being able to secure the weapon and not have to be fiddling with it which would scare people.
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Old September 20, 2011, 08:20 AM   #8
Jim March
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The other thing is, a holster signals to cops that you're a good guy who is NOT planning on ditching the gun and having plausible deniability that you ever had it.

To a cop, "Mexican carry" means "criminal". It's not based on any law but common sense...
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Old September 20, 2011, 08:48 AM   #9
Stressfire
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There's always that whole "going armed to the terror of the public" thing.

Holster seems best way to avoid that and any undue attention from law enforcement. As others have said, holster that covers the trigger is usually a good idea.
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Old September 20, 2011, 09:01 AM   #10
Jim March
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As others have said, holster that covers the trigger is usually a good idea.
Not vital if the gun is a single-action revolver.
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Old September 20, 2011, 09:10 AM   #11
graysmoke
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"Mexican Carry" - That's Awesome. Never heard that before.

In Florida, I do remember that any open carry handgun must be holstered, with a strap over the hammer.
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Old September 20, 2011, 11:12 AM   #12
Frank Ettin
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The particular State's law (both statutes and court decision) is the issue.

In some States, under their laws or court decisions, in order to be carried openly a gun must not even be partially concealed; and just sticking a gun in you waistband could be considered partially concealed. On the other hand, a gun worn in a holster on one's belt could be considered fully exposed to view and therefore lawfully carried openly.

I don't know about New Mexico.
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Old September 20, 2011, 11:33 AM   #13
secret_agent_man
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when their shirt has worked out of their pants and fallen over the but of the pistol rendering the weapon not readily visible
That lacks the element of intent necessary for a criminal conviction.

However, there are many shades of gray in law, and onerous convictions abound everywhere.

I would think an appeals court could have easily reversed or remanded that case back to the local court, but the fat lady doesn't always sing.
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Old September 20, 2011, 11:50 AM   #14
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That lacks the element of intent necessary for a criminal conviction.
You are invited to try that argument in court.

You will not win.

Look up 'Malum prohibitum.'
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Old September 20, 2011, 11:50 AM   #15
BlueTrain
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Well, here's a variation on the question. If a holster is used that completely covers the handgun, such as a German military holster for a P38, is the handgun considered "concealed," provided the holster is not itself covered and that the holster actually looks like a holster? I ask because I use one like that sometimes (but not for a P38) for those increasingly rare times I'm in the woods collecting ticks.
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Old September 20, 2011, 12:04 PM   #16
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BT, you raise a point I've never considered.

When I was a kid, I seem to recall the Maine State Police using flap holsters; same with RI state troopers.

As an adult, I've seen fewer and fewer of those.

I wonder if there are actually officers out there who wouldn't immediately recognize a flap holster for what it was, and then might get upset once they did realize...
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Old September 20, 2011, 12:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
To a cop, "Mexican carry" means "criminal". It's not based on any law but common sense...
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Old September 20, 2011, 12:55 PM   #18
Jim March
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Quote:
In Florida, I do remember that any open carry handgun must be holstered, with a strap over the hammer.
That would have to refer to cops and/or uniformed guards only, because open carry is otherwise illegal in FL.
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Old September 20, 2011, 12:58 PM   #19
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Sarge, I realize you are a LEO. However, I've had other LEO's tell me the same thing about holsters vs Mexican carry.

So, at least some officers do use that as a potential indicator.

Edit:

Jim March, open carry didn't pass in Florida, but I think there may be a holster requirement for open carry while hunting in Florida.
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Old September 20, 2011, 01:25 PM   #20
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I realize and agree, Mr. Leake, and my comment was not an endorsement of the practice. I simply felt Mr. March was painting with too broad a brush.
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Old September 20, 2011, 01:56 PM   #21
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Thanks, Sarge, for adding that bit of wisdom.

"some officers do use that as a potential indicator"

To some Law Enforcement Personnel, my "molon labe" cap and my Gadsden flag sticker are potential indicators that I'm a terrorist.

I don't recommend mexican carry as a regular practice, but, done with care, there's nothing wrong (or criminal) about it.

To the OP: be happy you have open carry, we still can't do that in Texas.

Best,

Will
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Last edited by psyfly; September 20, 2011 at 02:02 PM.
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:17 PM   #22
Tom Servo
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To some Law Enforcement Personnel, my "molon labe" cap and my Gadsden flag sticker are potential indicators that I'm a terrorist.
There's a big perceptual difference there. I can safely walk through an urban area with a Gadsden logo on a hat without attracting a second glance. I don't think I'd have such success with a handgun crammed down my pants.

Then there are the safety issues. Plaxico Burress: never forget.
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:35 PM   #23
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Maybe "never forget Plaxico Burress" should be added to the four rules .
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:47 PM   #24
MLeake
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In class last month, Mas Ayoob said Mexican carry can give new meaning to the phrase, "Don't go off half-cocked."

Something about an accidental discharge...
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:48 PM   #25
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As most everyone else has said, I'd holster the firearm somehow, with a real holster.

Here in Idaho, open carry is legal. The only form of carry that is specifically mentioned in the state code is concealed carry. However, one could read into 18-3303 that a gun is to be holstered when carried - the law says that anyone who "draws or exhibits any deadly weapon in a rude, angry and threatening manner..." is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Although I suppose one could Plaxico his gun and still be able to draw it.
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