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Old September 20, 2011, 03:35 PM   #26
Jim Watson
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If you want training, go to a real shooting class taught by a reputable instructor and practice what they tell you.
This is true, but it has its own limits.
Not everybody can afford regular refresher courses.
And without them, your practice and application of their tactics and techniques can drift away from what was meant.
Also, it can be hard to muster up the enthusiasm for solo practice, especially to practice the stuff you do worse at instead of the stuff you do well.

There is no one perfect answer unless you are a highly trained, frequently retrained professional, or are in such a hazardous environment that you have a lot of incentive to get and stay good.
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Old September 21, 2011, 10:42 AM   #27
Don P
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Hey Don, Just because you can shoot a 45 in ESP or SSP doesn't mean, based on the gamer rulebook, you should. Your 45 will put you at a competitive disadvantage in any division shooting 9mm. The lowest power factor I can get out of my 45 handloaded <...light loads...> is about 145K.
For a new shooter to competition the extra rounds may be helpfully at his/hers first match. Personally I do not care how many shooters may be in the same division as I am. I am competing against myself and could not care less what another shooter has for equipment, caliber, advantage, disadvantage wise.

Quote:
Nine times out of ten, I am shooting for fun and score.
My point exactly.

From XLtac.

Quote:
Your XD will need to be shot in the CDP division
Isn't this telling the OP "what to do"?

From Jim
Quote:
You are right. I don't care what somebody says I SHOULD do

From XLtac

Quote:
I don't care what somebody says I should do either which is why,
I'll close just saying I was offering a suggestion as to a division. It seems that Xltac took offense to my disagreeing with his statement as to division. My point was the OP was not limited to CDP as the above quote would lead one to believe. I'll also add that if a "new" shooter is going to a match intending to compete against all the shooters in class then that "new" shooter may very well be going home very disappointed in said performance.

I am curious as to why a shooter in ESP using 45 acp is at a disadvantage to the folks shooting 9 mm. Hits are hits as well as points down and penalties.

Quote:
CDP on their scoresheet since ESP will be full of 9mm guys running add-on magwells and equal to or lighter than steel guiderods while they sandbag their classification so they can win a plaque in their next sanctioned match.
Excellent reason for a failure to do right penalty and if I am MD good possibility of a DQ. Anyone doing the above quote is useless and worthless because the only way they can win is to CHEAT. Wouldn't it be lovely for someone to complain and have the susspected gun inspected and gun and shooter tossed from the match for rule violations
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Last edited by Don P; September 22, 2011 at 08:21 AM.
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Old September 26, 2011, 07:51 PM   #28
Bolocanolo
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IDPA and my Model 457

I've recently joined a local IDPA club and I plan to use my everyday carry gun a S & W Model 457 .45acp compact 7 Plus 1 in the mag. I plan on using this gun, because it's the one I carry. The gun is no longer in production and I'm having difficulty in finding a proper IDPA holster for the gun. I would appriciate if anyone has any thoughts about where to obtain an acceptable IDPA holster for this gun.
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Old September 26, 2011, 09:32 PM   #29
Jim Watson
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Awright, you get one Free Google.

Not a plug for a make or model (I don't have one and don't know of but one user around here.), but High Noon lists holsters for the S&W 457.

http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Prod...bare_skin.html

If you want a different style or real leather, look at their other stuff.

By the way, what holster do you carry it in for real? If it is a strong side straight draw holster, it would probably be ok for IDPA and better practice.
Of course if it is a shoulder rig or crossdraw or some such, you would not be able to use it.
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Old September 27, 2011, 08:23 AM   #30
Bolocanolo
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Thanks for the tip, I will look into it. I currently use a bikini type holster for concealed carry. Not very effective for IDPA. I'm currently having one (holster) hand made called the exotic slide with snake skin leather, fully lined. It's a heavy gun and I want it to ride high and tight to avoid flopping over. Thanks once again.
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Old September 27, 2011, 09:24 AM   #31
Jim Watson
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Carry on, then.
Back in 1997 or 1998 at the first or second IDPA Nationals, I saw a S&W rep shooting a 457 (or maybe a 4516, one of the compact .45s at any rate.) He was using Federal factory midrange match ammo which would have put him in ESP versus the various 9mms and making extra reloads here and there. We worried less about such things back then and he was doing all right.
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Old September 27, 2011, 12:56 PM   #32
Don P
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Quote:
It's a heavy gun and I want it to ride high and tight to avoid flopping over.
A good sturdy gun belt will eliminate the flopping issue.
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Old September 27, 2011, 03:58 PM   #33
Bolocanolo
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I hear you Don P. I can't always wear jeans, and daily dress pants don't always have belt loops that acomodate 1 1/2" of 1 3/4" belts. Conceal carry changes your way of life and influences what you wear. No matter, I dont go outside my house without my gun, and I try to avoid the places or stablishments that don't allow it.
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Old September 28, 2011, 09:15 AM   #34
Don P
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No matter, I dont go outside my house without my gun, and I try to avoid the places or stablishments that don't allow it.
I concur. The only difference is I carry everywhere the law allows. The no firearms signs do not carry any weight in FLA so I carry in those places. All they can do is ask you to leave IF THEY FIND you are CC
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Old September 28, 2011, 06:21 PM   #35
Bolocanolo
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With that being said, I have a question regarding concealed carry. I have not found the answer in Jon H Gutmacher's book, and I've asked the question on his website and never gotten an answer. Does anyone know if it's legal to carry in a home for the aged? I visit my ageing mother every week at her home for the aged, and I'm concerned about the legality. I dont know if it's proper to ask this question in this particular post, and I'm hoping the moderator doesn't delete my question. Does anyone have a thought?
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Old September 29, 2011, 08:51 AM   #36
Don P
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Does anyone have a thought?
From what I have been able to find on the FLA state web site for the statutes is nursing homes are not on the list of no carry. Just do your best to keep the gun in its concealed mode. Choice is yours and when my mom was in rehab I carried all the time when visiting. The facility was a combination of rehab, hospice, nursing home
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Old September 29, 2011, 09:22 AM   #37
Bolocanolo
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Thank You Don P. Very good advise. Visiting WWW.FloridaFirearmsLaw.com is a good source of information, since the laws are always changing. This nursing home is also a combination of all those services and one of the largest in South Florida.
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Old October 3, 2011, 07:19 PM   #38
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In IDPA is it okay to keep magazines in a pocket instead of a mag pouch as long as they are concealed? And if mag pouches are required would the paddle type be legal or does it have to be strung through a belt? As always thanks in advance.
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Old October 3, 2011, 07:24 PM   #39
Jim Watson
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You may carry ammunition in your pants or lower jacket pocket if you like. Not a breast pocket.
It would be a competitive disadvantage, so I recommend you splurge on a pouch unless you routinely reload from a pocket and wish to exercise your carry methods.

A paddle mag pouch is fine.
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Old October 3, 2011, 08:28 PM   #40
randomvalleyguy
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Jim. I think I'll go shoot the classifier with my P95 and see how I like it. And another question, would the P95 be ESP or SSP? It's a single/double action. And for the record it's one hell of a gun.

Last edited by randomvalleyguy; October 3, 2011 at 08:41 PM.
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Old October 3, 2011, 09:32 PM   #41
Dennis1209
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I shot the KY-TN IDPA regional match this last Saturday, it was lots of fun. I beg to differ a little bit that it's not training though. Just like the much talked about "mussel memory" in drawing an firing, enough taking cover and attention to less than 50% of your upper body exposed long enough should also ingrain that into habit. Anyway, I didn't do to bad shooting, it was a few procedurals that took its toll. Being new to IDPA and having to shoot first at a couple of (to me) complicated stages that you had to tactical reload, emergency reload, on the move / behind cover, etc. etc. played a head game with me. Also being a newbie I was paying particular attention to everyones gear and tactics to improve my own skills and score. There were about 60 competitors at the match and I made it a point to see what everyone was shooting. What was missing were the LCP's, air weights, Solo's, etc. I did not see anyone shooting anything smaller than a 4 inch barrel, and that was me. Like many of you here, I do it for the fun of it, get some practice out of it, associate with other shooters and get away from the wife for the day

Another thing that was unusual, there were quite a few misfires and cost them time. Listening to the banter about it, apparently they were re-loaders. Their primers were not seated correctly and/or they had a bad primer.
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Old October 3, 2011, 09:45 PM   #42
Don P
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would the P95 be ESP or SSP?
SSP for the semi-autos that are DA/SA (includes all calibers)
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Old October 3, 2011, 10:12 PM   #43
Don P
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What was missing were the LCP's, air weights, Solo's
Not sure about the LCP as far as caliber goes and most air weights are snubies and would be shot in a BUG match just because of barrel length and rounds. Most shooters in revolver will shoot 4" barrels. Question, what is SOLO's?
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Last edited by Don P; October 4, 2011 at 07:44 AM.
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Old October 4, 2011, 01:10 PM   #44
JTMcC
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Willie Lowman says: "IDPA is does not train you for real life scenarios, it trains you to shoot card board targets that will never shoot back at you.

If you want training, go to a real shooting class taught by a reputable instructor and practice what they tell you.



I say: Willie, please post a list of "shooting classes", taught by "reputable instructors", that are now using actual beligerant criminals (armed with pistols/knives/bats) actively trying to kill the students.
This could be quite a bit more usefull than simply shooting at "cardboard targets that will never shoot back at you".
Can't imagine their liability premiums.
Thanks in advance,

J
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Old October 7, 2011, 09:28 AM   #45
ang4me
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IDPA is not training by a long shot, and it won't make you a tacticool HSLD operator. But, for those of us, especially new to carrying, who don't have $1200 a week to spend on ammo and tuition for top-notch training, it's the best that can be done to test and improve skills. It will expose many of your flaws, improve your accuracy and gunhandling, and put you alongside people who can share a lot of insights and information. It beats the hell out of going to a stationary range, and, when combined with occasional professional training, in my opinion, renders one better prepared for a confrontation than 99.9% of the people out there. Most important of all, it's FUN.
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Old October 7, 2011, 02:16 PM   #46
Glenn E. Meyer
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Solos are the new Kimber pocket 9.

IDPA is not particularly friendly to pocket guns. The Tac journal has spoken to this several times. Thus, a great number of actual carry guns are disqualified. It is a game. In club matches, shoot your snubby, etc. Ask the match manager if you can. Here, I've shot my 38 snub and a 327 mag. Others have shot 380s. You do that not to win but have practice. IDPA is resistant to mix these guns in regular matches - I think that is a mistake, BTW. They miss a slew of new gun owners.

About real training compared to IDPA - there are places where you use Airsoft or sims. If well controlled, it's about as close a civilian can come to real incidents. They can be heart pounding.

IDPA is fun and slightly more realistic trigger time than IPSC (ducking for cover - Haha - ).
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Old October 7, 2011, 03:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
IDPA is fun and slightly more realistic trigger time than IPSC (ducking for cover - Haha - ).
I'll not argue with ya there, but it assumes that realism is a desired trait of your game of choice.

As I've heard it said:

IDPA is a game trying to be real.

USPSA/IPSC is a game that's happy to be a game.



In the end though, while I don't think either really prepares you for "situations", both tend to increase basic marksmanship skills, which you'll always do well to have in a real situation.

Also, anything is better than not shooting. I'm a USPSA person and don't do IDPA, but if USPSA wasn't around and IDPA was all that was available, I'd probably be doing that instead.
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Old October 8, 2011, 03:15 AM   #48
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plus 1 for MGMorden

IDPA formed because IPSC got so out of control with all the race-gun gear. IDPA is still a game. What is sad is that both have contestants that believe they are the gunfighter-from-hell because they've competed in the sport or 6 months. Wow! All you MS13 Gang members beware.
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Old October 8, 2011, 08:10 AM   #49
Don P
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IDPA, USPSA, and Steel Challenge all are better than just punching holes in paper from a firing line. They get folks drawing from holsters acquiring targets, and hopefully getting there hits. Just my thought here. How many people that are CCW'ing daily that have never or have very limited practice at drawing there weapon and presenting to a target? I will add in a timely fashion.
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Old October 9, 2011, 03:20 PM   #50
Glenn E. Meyer
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Most have little practice at such. I do like steel also. Great for practicing basics of trigger, sights, under speed pressure.

MGMorden - LOL.
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