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Old September 17, 2011, 10:46 PM   #1
FrankenMauser
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Moving with NFA items?

I've been wanting to pick up a .22 caliber suppressor for my Buckmark and .22 WMR (rifle), and a .35 caliber suppressor for my 9mm for a while, now. But, I could never find the money to do so. Due to a recent windfall, I may have the money to make it a reality.

But... I live in Utah. Within the next 12-14 months, I will be moving to North Carolina.

I plan to go the Trust route for any NFA items, but have never run across anything detailing what may be involved in an interstate change of residence.

Anybody here feel like explaining the details to me, of what would be required when I moved?


Thanks for any help.
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Old September 18, 2011, 01:31 AM   #2
ogree
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As long as the NFA items you have are legal to posses in NC, all you have to do is fill out and send in the same form that you would use to do a temporary out of state transport. If I remember correctly the form is a 5320.
Make sure you do this in advance of the move.
I had moved a couple of times when I still had my SMG and incurred no problems.
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Old September 19, 2011, 07:39 AM   #3
Skans
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What is the NFA requirement for someone who is just moving from one county to an adjacent county within the same state?
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Old September 19, 2011, 09:03 AM   #4
ogree
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You are not required to notify ATF of a move within your state of residence.
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Old September 19, 2011, 10:14 AM   #5
Poodleshooter
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The form to transport across state lines is a 5320.20, whether for transportation or for permanently moving. For moving you check "no" to the question "firearms to be returned to original location".

Most of the ATF NFA Title II forms are "5320s". A "Form 1" is actually a 5320.1, a "Form 4" is a 5320.4,etc.

Note that a 5320.20 is NOT required for transporting suppressor. But a lot of people do it anyway, and ATF still returns the other copy and processes it. Personally, I'd definitely do it for a permanent move.

To me, the big concern over moving with a trust suppressor is whether the trust is still valid in the new state. If it's registered to you, personally, no harm no foul. But if a trust is made invalid by different laws in the new state...that I'm not sure about. For example, if you moved from a state that allows "self dealing" (ie using the suppressor as the trustee before giving it to the benefactor), to one that does not, I'm not sure if the invalidation of the usage under the trust would be an issue or not. That's an attorney question.
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Old September 21, 2011, 11:24 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I often forget to check the NFA forum when I visit TFL, and forgot about this post, until today.



A great point, Poodleshooter. I guess I have a little more research to do, before I make a determination on going with a Trust.
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Old September 26, 2011, 03:55 PM   #7
Jack_Bauer24
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Preemptive welcome to NC.
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Old September 29, 2011, 06:40 PM   #8
saands
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I may be wrong (and hope I am) but I was under the impression that there were NO Class III items allowed in NC at all. My recollection is that basically anything Class III fits into their definition of a "weapon of mass destruction" (no joke, that is what they call it) and is prohibited. South Carolina is a different story.

Please set me straight on this if I have read it wrong.

TIA,

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Old September 30, 2011, 04:33 PM   #9
FrankenMauser
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That comes from a common mis-interpretation of the statute, and the difficulty with which people are faced in getting a CLEO signature.


But this...
Quote:
My recollection is that basically anything Class III fits into their definition of a "weapon of mass destruction"
Is true.


However, you can still own and use your "weapons of mass destruction". You're just better off purchasing them in another state, before you move to NC; or using a trust (which has its own issues, unique to NC).





Just so those unfamiliar with the NC definition can see it:
Quote:
§ 14‑288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.
...{edited for brevity}
(c) The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" includes:
(1) Any explosive or incendiary:
a. Bomb; or
b. Grenade; or
c. Rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; or
d. Missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one‑quarter ounce; or
e. Mine; or
f. Device similar to any of the devices described above; or
(2) Any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one‑half inch in diameter; or
(3) Any firearm capable of fully automatic fire, any shotgun with a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is included within this definition. For the purposes of this section, rifle is defined as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or
(4) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any weapon described above and from which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be assembled.
The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" does not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line‑throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes, in accordance with Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(d) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class F felony. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1975, c. 718, ss. 6, 7; 1977, c. 810; 1983, c. 413, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1228; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑470, s. 3.)
A 1999 opinion letter made that blue-highlighted text the "loop hole" for legal ownership, transfer, possession, etc. It's just damn hard to get a CLEO signature (essentially impossible, in most of the state).
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Last edited by FrankenMauser; September 30, 2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:58 AM   #10
Jack_Bauer24
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It also pays to know the Sheriff and when election time and they come door to door sit down with them and explain NFA items to them and ask if elected will you sign my forms and have several witnesses around. This will not guarantee a signature but most have no clue about NFA items or the law, so educate them in a nice way. But I am from a very small county.
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Old October 15, 2011, 10:37 AM   #11
dajowi
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Any NFA item moved from one residence to another has to be approved by the ATF - Even if you move the Class III weapon next door or across the street. It is advisable to do so before the move however, I submitted paperwork to move a machine gun within the county where I live some ten years after the move and the ATF approved it. The paperwork for a CIII item must indicate the exact and current location where the item is kept.
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Old October 15, 2011, 07:56 PM   #12
James K
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FWIW, I moved within the same county and just sent BATFE a letter after the fact. It might not be required, but I see no reason to have the wrong address in the NFRTR and it could create problems for a new resident at my old address.

Jim
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