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Old October 16, 2011, 10:43 PM   #26
Patriot86
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When shooting and killing teenagers , even if they are armed there is no good outcome. I remember a story about some guy in Ohio. He was on his front porch, drinking with a friend about midnight. A few young thugs came up and tried to rob him at gunpoint, he was armed and shot one of them. The one he shot also happened to be the youngest a 15 year old boy. The neighborhood people were ready to just about form a LYNCH MOB and go after this guy for defending himself.

In this specific case I think you had the best outcome, no one was killed, bad guys in Jail. Another thought on why he may have missed, it was dark and MOST revolvers do not have night sights. Not that he would have hit with night sights, but it may have made things a little easier.

In this situation, I probably would have done the same. Multiple bad guys, not good odds shoot first and ask questions later. 1 intruder I might be more apt to give ONE and ONLY one command after blinding him with my flashlight to hit the ground.



In regards to giving statements to the police, ESPECIALLY in the area where I live which is very anti gun; I think I would probably be apt especially if I shot and hit someone to offer to come to the police station in the morning with a lawyer and make a statement. Part 2 of this though, is it a crime ( I know ever state is different, I mean in general) to ask to give a statement at a later time with a lawyer in tow and not answer questions at the time of the incident?
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Old October 17, 2011, 12:09 AM   #27
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Not to get off track here but to the lynch mob. It wouldn't be the only bullet that i had. If you had to defend your house, property or yourself even if from a teenager, you still have the right to defend yourself. If others then want to retaliate , well then you have a right to defend yourself again. I really don't think it matters if a person is a teen, middle aged or older, if you really mess up and someone has the right to do whatever they need to do then should they be charged for having to defend themselves later? I don't think so!
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Old October 17, 2011, 12:37 AM   #28
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Part 2 of this though, is it a crime ( I know ever state is different, I mean in general) to ask to give a statement at a later time with a lawyer in tow and not answer questions at the time of the incident?
I think the 5th amendment would cover that. But the Constitution doesn't seem to carry the weight it used to.
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Old October 17, 2011, 01:25 AM   #29
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To answer questions at a later time with your lawyer? Sure can, just set I'n that cell and have your lawyer come visit you and then answer our questions for us.
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Old October 17, 2011, 03:53 AM   #30
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they have no right to hold you unless they make an arrest(sometimes they have 'outside grounds' to "hold" you while they continue their investigation(example: minor warrant). Some people don't even understand this many times while being interrogated. I'm one that might say something(depending on what I felt and whether right or wrong). It would be short and sweet or nothing at all though.
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:08 AM   #31
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Correction- they have 72 hours to hold you for investigating you before making any or no arrest!
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:14 AM   #32
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they have to have a reason to hold you for 72 hrs. They can't just 'decide' to do that without reasons.
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:40 AM   #33
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Yea just like you're innocent until proven guilty too huh? Scenario-police arrive on scene during an argument. Boyfriend and girlfriend arguing over mans other female friend then woman states man grabbed her by her throat. He never did and no witnesses. Cuffed and hauled to jail ancharged with domestic violence. Has got to get a lawyer( they don't work for free) may get dropped may not but all this but suppose to be innocent until proven guilty. You can be held for 72 hrs and charged with nothing
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Old October 17, 2011, 05:29 AM   #34
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farmerboy, in most instances, shooting somebody who has ceased to present themselves as an immediate threat is not considered self-defense.

And, in most instances, people survive handgun bullet wounds.

You sound like you advocate private executions. Again, not a great idea, from a legal or ethical point of view, and a horrible idea, as far as things you can post on a public forum.

I also have to wonder just how good your shooting is, when you are in fear for your life. It's not the same as hunting, unless you have found yourself face to face with a charging predator, at close range.

Kind of like anybody can fly a plane on a good day. Flying a plane with an engine failure or fire, in deteriorating weather... that takes a whole different level of skill, plus some intangibles.
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Old October 17, 2011, 10:23 AM   #35
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Those simple mind brats were lucky that home owner did no have a shotgun.
2:30am ringing the door bell...... Then breaking in.?.....Stupid is what stupid does..
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Old October 17, 2011, 11:40 AM   #36
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I am more than willing to defend myself and my family against intruders, bad guys, ne'er-do-wells, and anyone else.

I am also truly, sincerely, fingers crossed, hoping I never have to shoot anyone, ever. That doesn't mean I won't if we are threatened. I will not shoot someone who enters my house and I then catch walking out with my television. I will tell them to put the TV down and get on the floor, but if they choose to keep going I am not going to shoot them over stuff my insurance will replace. I am truly sorry if that position disagrees with some of you, but perhaps I am just not as eager as you to shoot and kill someone.
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Old October 17, 2011, 12:42 PM   #37
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but perhaps I am just not as eager as you to shoot and kill someone.
I am not a moderator but I can tell you this kind of trash isnt usually welcome here. How can you assume that we are all some sort of blood thirsty villans just waiting to down someone?

The people that frequent this forum tend to be some of the most law abiding and friendly individuals you could ever want to meet... Except for that AL character.

In any case let me recommend a screen name change and a rethinking of this post.
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Old October 17, 2011, 01:18 PM   #38
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If the guys, teenagers, or whatever age they are, come
into my house at 2:30 am, they are getting shot! Period!
I worked hard for what I have, whether its a tv set, sterio,
whatever! Its in my house, and its MINE! Would I shoot
some goofy kids that are in my house, and stealing my
stuff? YOU BET I WOULD! I cant understand some of
the ninnys that come on forums, talk about burglars
breaking into their houses, at NIGHT, and then say "Well,
I just couldnt bring myself to shoot that kid, just because
he was stealing my tv!" I guess if he had progressed to
raping your wife, what would you do then? Geeezzzz!
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Old October 17, 2011, 02:05 PM   #39
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I think the homeowner did right. no one knows the state of mind or the intentions of the intruder.. Its not worth taking the chance. I dont want to be on the front page of my local news paper with the title saying homeowner was shot and killed because he wanted to see if the intruders that broke in his house in the middle of the night were a threat. Not me my friends, if you break in my house you are considered a threat to me and my family and I will shoot to put down. a threat has no age there are 15 year olds with guns and don't think twice about shooting someone.. If you love your life and family then you got to think about what is your priority .thinking twice can result deadly..
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Old October 17, 2011, 03:12 PM   #40
SocialAnarchist
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Quote:
BGutzman:

I am not a moderator but I can tell you this kind of trash isnt usually welcome here. How can you assume that we are all some sort of blood thirsty villans just waiting to down someone?

To me anyone willing to kill someone walking out the door with a TV, and showing no aggressive moves towards them, is a little blood thirsty. I will kill if it comes to that to protect myself, my loved ones, or my friends. For a TV? Sorry no. I choose not to do that, you choose to do that, you are no more right than I am.

The people that frequent this forum tend to be some of the most law abiding and friendly individuals you could ever want to meet... Except for that AL character.

Perhaps they are. But talking on a public forum about KILLING people for stealing stuff seems extreme to me.

In any case let me recommend a screen name change and a rethinking of this post.

Nah, I like my screen name. And I suppose if an alternative view isn't appreicated I can always be banned.
You see this is still the United States and differing view points are supposed to be welcome. It doesn't make me anti-gun, or anti-second Ammendment. It just makes me a little less willing to kill.
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Old October 17, 2011, 03:22 PM   #41
SocialAnarchist
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Quote:
hartlock:

If the guys, teenagers, or whatever age they are, come
into my house at 2:30 am, they are getting shot! Period!

I don't believe I ever said YOU couldn't shoot them.

I worked hard for what I have, whether its a tv set, sterio,
whatever! Its in my house, and its MINE! Would I shoot
some goofy kids that are in my house, and stealing my
stuff? YOU BET I WOULD! I cant understand some of
the ninnys that come on forums, talk about burglars
breaking into their houses, at NIGHT, and then say "Well,
I just couldnt bring myself to shoot that kid, just because
he was stealing my tv!"

I think I explained that pretty well. I am not willing to kill someone over easily replaced, by insurance, property. A TV in the grand scheme of things is simply not worth taking a life to me. It my be to you, but certainly not me. Your blather about eageness to shoot and kill is just the kind of nonsense that the anti-gun media loves to see. Nice work. I am COMPLETELY willing to defend myself, my loved ones, and my friends up to the point of taking a life. To me that makes sense. You want to call me a ninny? Fine if it makes you feel better about yourself. Frankly, I pity you and the cloud of fear you live under.

I guess if he had progressed to
raping your wife, what would you do then? Geeezzzz!

Um, GEEEEZZZZZ! That would be a talented ciminal. Walking out the door with my tv set in his arms raping my wife...

Nice jump to the absolutely insanely ludicrous. I said CLEARLY, I would defend myself, my loved ones, and my friends up to and including killing the intruder if necessary. But then again hype and hysteria are much easier than actually rading and responding to what people write.
Look, kill all the intruders you want. I am not trying to stop you.

Have a nice day!

Last edited by SocialAnarchist; October 17, 2011 at 03:28 PM.
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Old October 17, 2011, 03:28 PM   #42
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It just makes me a little less willing to kill.
So the assumption then is all other members must be 'more willing to kill' than you are?

This is such a vast generalization as to be absurd. How did you determine that everyone else here is more willing than you to take life? Osmosis? Mind reading ability? Scientific Poll?

Your free to ponder as you like and it up to the moderators to do whatever... Good luck with your theorys...
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Old October 17, 2011, 03:38 PM   #43
SocialAnarchist
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Quote:
BGutzman Quote:

So the assumption then is all other members must be 'more willing to kill' than you are?

This is such a vast generalization as to be absurd. How did you determine that everyone else here is more willing than you to take life? Osmosis? Mind reading ability? Scientific Poll?

Your free to ponder as you like and it up to the moderators to do whatever... Good luck with your theorys...
It seems apparent that the willingness to shoot over stuff makes the jump to willingness to kill. If you shoot in self defense the premise is you shoot to kill. At least everything I have read says so. Although shooting over stuff can hardly be construed as self defense.
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:13 PM   #44
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If you shoot in self defense the premise is you shoot to kill.
This is a totally incorrect assumption: Self-defense in regards to deadly force is the use of the minimum force necessary to stop the imminent life threatening attack. It may or may not be that the attacker dies as a result of the force used to stop the attack. The intent of the defenders force is only to stop the attack not to take life...

Some states may or may not allow the use of force to defend property. In my state deadly force cant legally be used by a citizen to stop simple theft.
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:41 PM   #45
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Some states may or may not allow the use of force to defend property. In my state deadly force cant legally be used by a citizen to stop simple theft.
Same goes for my state. Some do allow defense of property with deadly force, however, the decision on whether to do so or not is a personal one.

Personally, if someone were stealing my property I would not open fire even if I were allowed to. No need to take a life over replaceable property, however, I would make the attempt to retrieve it, that's what non-lethal weapons are for. Phone being at the top of the list.
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:52 PM   #46
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To the one who stated they would not shoot anyone unless under immanent threat. A bad guy comes into your house is very polite and sees your wife washing dishes and tells her he wishes to do neither of you harm but he's going to rape her and leave you too alone afterwards but will be gentle. You still wouldn't shoot him would you because no one is getting hurt by your last post. Ps- you don't know it but the BG has aids. What if he politely says he's gonna take your tv and insurance can get you another one, no threat was made. Nobody got hurt. He just walks away whistling carrying your tv. This is truly just scenarios and hope this never happens to your are anybody elses wife but really someone that makes those statements, what will you defend??? Hell you won't even help yourself or protect your assests under certain conditions what will you. That's fine maybe it's allright to live I'n a bubble, Idk. But just don't ever get caught kicking my door I'n I'n the night hrs or day either. I'm not gonna ask you if your hear to kill rape or just steal a tv. All I'm gonna say is the last thing you'll see is a bright flash
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:58 PM   #47
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Use of deadly force in the prevention or interruption of a rape is legal in OH at any rate.

Defense of property is not. But should someone kick down your door in the middle of the night, do you know exactly what they are there to do?

IIRC, you are legally permitted to defend property in Texas, are you not?
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Old October 17, 2011, 04:58 PM   #48
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It's the same old debate,,, all over again,,,,,

Kill someone to protect stuff?

I get asked that from time to time,,,
"You would kill someone for stealing your TV?"

"No," I answer, "I would shoot them for being in my home."

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to be in my home uninvited, especially when I'm asleep,,,
When they enter my home they should have realized beforehand that this is a Castle Defense state.

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Old October 17, 2011, 05:01 PM   #49
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but he's going to rape her and leave you too alone afterwards but will be gentle. You still wouldn't shoot him would you because no one is getting hurt by your last post.
If the BG enters my house unwelcomed and approaches to within 20 feet he will have a pistol/shotgun or carbine aimed upon him even if I would hold my fire. As I have to assume the intent is bodily harm or death no matter what the person says due to the situation. The moment that person refuses my command to stop advancing it may well redefine the sitation to the point that force can legally be used.

The BG approaching my spouse with a stated intent to rape and a disparity of force due to numbers would probably reach the level of threat required by law especially if there is no way to retreat.

The law never states stand and watch your loved ones get killed, raped or maimed but thats entirely different than someone who doesnt approach you who simply steals your tv or some other thing.

I am no lawyer but the law in many places seems to generally define property as not being as valuable as life....
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Old October 17, 2011, 05:08 PM   #50
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Where do you live? I need a new tv
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