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Old October 13, 2011, 03:48 PM   #1
KMAX
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Just the movies or for real?

I was just thinking about shooting styles and was wondering about this. Does anybody really hold a handgun sideways to shoot it or is that only in the movies? Have you ever tried it and what were the results? I may try it next time I go out to the range and nobody else is around. Seems like it would be foolish, punkish, and "spray and pray" at best. Anybody actually tried it?
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Old October 13, 2011, 03:56 PM   #2
Rj1972
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There's a pretty funny set of shooting sideways on this youtube video (starting after 4:00). Results were less than stellar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtI7eKI2GUg
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Old October 13, 2011, 04:24 PM   #3
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I saw a movie on HBO other night, and a cop in it was
holding his gun sideways, as he and his partner were
questioning these suspects. I had to laugh out loud
at them! Where do people get these stupid ideas about
shooting handguns this way? Do they think it makes them
look macho, or what? To me, it just makes them look
STUPID! Just my 2 cents!
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Old October 13, 2011, 04:27 PM   #4
SHNOMIDO
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Ive tried it. cant put rounds on paper.

its more fun and actually trains something to shoot with your weak hand. I can get pretty good groups but my follow ups are S-L-O-W.

On history channel i saw a recreation of a gangland shooting, and it depicted the guy shooting, pulling the trigger with his middle finger, had his pointer over the slide and ejection, and holding it sideways.

Im sure that worked out for the guy in real life.
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Old October 13, 2011, 05:43 PM   #5
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I've had a couple people who thought it would be cool to go "gangster" with my glock and shot it sidways. Everyone who has ended up with a slide bite.
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Old October 13, 2011, 05:43 PM   #6
raimius
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Usually, the results are not very good, accuracy wise. Using some cant while shooting one-handed can be helpful, but 90 degrees is way too much.

Try pointing at something without holding a pistol. Is you hand canted? That is a pretty natural position. Full 90 degree cants are pretty uncommon though.
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Old October 13, 2011, 06:09 PM   #7
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CAR method

In the Center Axis Relock method of shooting you hold the gun sideways. Actually, it is canted about 45 to 60 degrees off of vertical not 90 degrees to vertical. You still need to keep a proper grip on the gun! I did not have any problem shooting this way.

With this method I was able to get quick followups and was as accurate as any other method. My Bersa Thundar 380 had no issues with this positioning. None of the 30 or so people in the class firing semi-autos from .22lr to .45ACP had any problems either.
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Old October 13, 2011, 06:37 PM   #8
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45 to 60 degrees? Interesting... I've seen 15 to 30 taught, particularly for cross-dominant shooting (right hand, left eye, for example), but I haven't seen 45 to 60.

At what distance were you employing a 45 to 60 degree cant?
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Old October 13, 2011, 06:47 PM   #9
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lol no no no dude...you have got it all wrong. not only do they hold it sideways but they also hold it over there heads and aim down at the ground. i know you guys have seen thugs do this on tv.

me and some friends got together and thought we would give it a try. it was horrible, we kept shooting the ground and had trouble hitting a human size target at 10 feet...not yards..but feet.
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Old October 13, 2011, 06:53 PM   #10
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"the Center Axis Relock method"? I guess if enough people do something silly enough someone will come up with a name for it and promote it.

Actually, a pistol held sideways is no less accurate than one held in the conventional manner, but its recoil and sight settings have to be considered in light of the way the pistol is held. The "problem" is that there is no logical reason for shooting that way except in an emergency; it is simply movie hype, and is confined to the movies and those who think imitating some movie "gangsta" is way cool.*

True some folks like to practice every conceivable hold and position "just in case" but in most cases would be better off using the ammunition to learn to shoot in the normal manner.

*There was an old joke about why some TV Western hero never missed; the script writer was on his side. So much for movie and TV gunfights.

Jim
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Old October 13, 2011, 07:27 PM   #11
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Was shooting a Steyr M1912 WW1 era (9mm para version) pistol with adjustible artillery sights. Its a pistol with an internal magazine that uses a charger clip or can be loaded one round at a time. Well after some shooting, both the front and rear sights blew off.

Tried shooting sideways (90 deg turn) and it worked just fine. Also makes it easy to catch the empties with your free hand.

Guess I'm ready for Hollywood.


*Steyr M1912 pictured below, before sights were blown off.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Steyr M1912.jpg (36.0 KB, 103 views)
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Old October 13, 2011, 07:39 PM   #12
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I will admit to a life-long penchant for comic books. I have an issue of "The Punisher" where the main character gets into a shootout with a gang of criminals [actually, that happens in most of those stories, but anyhow..]. One thug in particular is firing his handgun at The Punisher in the Hollywood manner you've described, and all of his shots miss. Just before executing said hoodlum with his properly-aimed Springfield Armory 1911, The Punisher says to him: "They put the sights on top for a reason."
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Old October 14, 2011, 03:29 AM   #13
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I've fired air pistols that way for a laugh.

I could probably hit a man sized target at 10 meters, but any further will be tricky.

Reportedly, in the 1920's, the Chinese liked to use their Mauser Broomhandles sideways and were fairly proficient at it. They used a slightly different technique, though.
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Old October 14, 2011, 07:10 AM   #14
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While showing off, I've shot a Ruger 22 pistol sidewise and upside down. I suppose with enough practice, it could be considered an option, albiet a poor one. The normal upright hold does a better job of helping control recoil because the weight of the shooting hand/arm is directly below the angle of the recoil movement. Not a factor with a 22, but comes into play with 9mm and up. Some pistols don't function well at odd angles although revolvers don't care. The sights are going to be way off(if you use sights) since they're setup for shooting upright and recoil figures into the angle of the barrel at the moment the bullet leaves the muzzle. Even a laser sight will not be aligned properly for the same reason.
IMHO just a Hollywood farce. If you use this method, use a big target and get close.
BTW if you want to get really tricky, use two pistols. One in each hand held horizontally top to top with the sights close together and try to get them to fire and hit at the same time. Not recommended for home use.
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Old October 14, 2011, 07:57 AM   #15
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At the Tactical Defense Institute, we learned a two-handed "roll-over" technique for slicing the pie around a corner using your non-dominant eye. It allows you to present the smallest possible target while gaining the most visual advantage possible. I used it to great effect in my live-fire-house experience.

I've also been taught a one-handed technique that is more stable for moving around that we lovingly call, "Half-Homie", at about a 45 degree cant.

But one handed, sideways, for no good reason...

It's for morons. And I've seen it in real life.

~LT
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:19 AM   #16
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Pointing at something with your hand, you will notice that it's probably canted over quite a bit. Same principle applies to one-handed point shooting.
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:39 AM   #17
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art imitating life or vice-versa?

With ammo as expensive as it is, I can't afford to indulge in wannabe gangsta fantasies, I use every round to sharpen my skills.
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:42 AM   #18
Seaman
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"Pointing at something with your hand, you will notice that it's probably canted over quite a bit. Same principle applies to one-handed point shooting. "

You are 100% right. When pointing, the hand is naturally 90 deg turned. They probably put the sights on top for ambidextrous use, would work fine on the side, won't be long till some manufacturer figures this out and then it will become the rage....
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:47 AM   #19
nice shot
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gun

During room clearing with a barricade shield. . . sure. To advance on a subject / engage a target / fire for any type of effect. . . no. Never.

I've only fired like that twice and that was in training many years ago. Even then they told us it was meerely a way to get around the shield.

I think the hood rats do that for the look. I could be wrong.
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:56 AM   #20
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Anyone else waiting for some idiot to try it with a Desert Eagle .50AE?

*whack*
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Old October 14, 2011, 12:56 PM   #21
Sleuth
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Those are obviously not the original sights on that 1912! No wonder they 'blew off'.

I have seen a uniformed patrol officer hold his pistol sideways (on COPS), but this same officer was wearing a thigh rig on patrol! Very un-impressive.

The evolution of the sideways hold is interesting:
It was first used by the 'shield man' on entry teams. The shield is held in the left hand/arm, and the window is in the center. Thus the only way to see the sights is to hold the gun sideways, with a considerable bend in the elbow. (Some teams had the shield man use both hands on the shield, but most guys did not like that.)

The gang bangers saw that, and thought it was really "TACTICOOL", so they started doing it.

Then, some cops picked it up, along with some GSC!

Remember, most bad guys are verticle targets, so a gun recoiling vertically may stay on (some part of) your target. A gun recoiling sideways goes off target.

GSC = Gun Store Commandos
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:11 PM   #22
WW2
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Read about CAR here...

You can read about CAR here; rather than me trying to explain it.

http://www.civilianarmstraining.com/...:fp-rokstories

From 15 yards out you are basically in a near Weaver stance. As you get closer you are more and more bladed. When at contact distance you a in a fully bladed position. Basically for a right handed shooter this brings the gun to eye level with your head turned nearly 90 degrees to the left and the gun above and to the right of your left shoulder. See the pictures in the link above for a better understanding. For left handed shooting it is the reverse. One great advantage I found is for cross eye dominance; my dominant left eye is lined up with the sights and the right eye is blocked by my right hand. When changing to shoot left handed, my RIGHT eye is aligned with the sights and my left (dominant) eye is blocked by my left hand. Thus I do not need to close one eye with shooting. I have found that my accuracy is just as good as with a traditional Weaver stance.

Also, this method helps with weapon retention in contact distances. It is just one more method in my arsenal not the only method I use.
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:22 PM   #23
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If CAR works for you, great.

But why not drop the right elbow, and use the Weaver? It would also get the gun further away from your face, and mean that every shot you fire is practice for your fighting stance, rather than two different stances.

Not arguing, justr trying to understand.
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:24 PM   #24
aarondhgraham
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One just needs the proper gear,,,

Like these,,,



Aarond
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Last edited by aarondhgraham; September 18, 2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:34 PM   #25
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According to this and a few other sources, the side grip was effective against throngs of people, using the recoil to spread shots laterally along a wide field of fire:

Quote:
During the first half of the 20th century, soldiers used the side grip for the express purpose of endangering throngs of people. Some automatic weapons from this era—like the Mauser C96 or the grease gun—fired so quickly or with such dramatic recoil that soldiers found it impossible to aim anything but the first shot. Soldiers began tilting the weapons, so that the recoil sent the gun reeling in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, enabling them to spray bullets into an onrushing enemy battalion instead of over their heads.
I suppose it would also help you more easily police brass if, by being turned on its side, your weapon would eject straight up instead of out to the side.

Oh, geez, aarond, please tell me that is not a real product
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