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Old September 30, 2011, 08:54 PM   #76
Big Shrek
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And its also been scientifically proven, that even if you are an old geezer, you will STILL benefit from exercise.

The less excess weight you carry, means you can move faster with less effort...

The more muscle you have, the less effort you expend to move things...


Rant Portion follows...

Ever wonder why some folks complain about recoil from a .40 short & wimpy?? PULEAZE!
Snappy my great auntie's fanny!! Feels about like a Grendel P-30 to me...that's a .22 WMR in case some of y'all didn't know.
The only folks that think .40 & 9mm are too much recoil and they need a .380 need to get their fat butts to the GYM!

The only reason the FBI had to downgrade the 10mm to the .40 Short & Wimpy is because of WEAKLINGS!!
If liberals hadn't made 'em take wimps & weaklings into gov't service, they'd still be using 10mm.
Hello! Its Law Enforcement! If you gotta hire someone to carry a gun & whooparse, get the strongest humans you can find!!
Mr. 5'9 with a 125# max benchpress ain't gonna cut it!! Go get Ms. Amazon 6'3 who can benchpress half a VW bug!

This also extended to my Army life...nothing I hated worse than some pogey-bait bastich falling out on a short march.
I mean, DANG, if you couldn't at least walk 20 miles before you joined up, you coulda picked the freekin Air Force!!
Boot Camp shoulda weeded out the weak, but they've de-nutted most of the boot camps!!
Drill Sgt's can't even CUSS a recruit anymore? WTH??

Just makes you want to round up all the liberals and ship them to China...or maybe the moon...
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Old October 6, 2011, 09:32 AM   #77
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You can't be something you're not, especially if that would require time travel.

But anyone can make the most of what they've got. Plus you'll probably live longer and feel better doing it.
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Old October 7, 2011, 10:13 AM   #78
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Shrek, you're getting into the area of Bona Fide Occupational Qualification -BFOQ under Tile VII, Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unfortunately, neither the Army nor the FBI did a good job of creating BFOQs as it pertained to physical ability. Of course, they generally were not in the business of creating these defensible HR documents, but the fact is they didn't create them. So there are people in the Army who are physically incapable of physically doing everything they have to do.

A road march is bad enough carrying your own gear, but then you have to pass around the radio, the water, the M60 and the M60 ammo. If you have a few people who can't carry any of that stuff - the rotation get shorter so you basically hand off the water can and 1 click later you're lugging the M60. I was on a road march as part of PLDC, it was a 10 person class and we had 4 soldiers who couldn't carry any of that stuff. Toward the end they couldn't even carry their own pack - and they were the small 30lb rucks - not even the big ones. So in addition to not being able to carry the stuff that rotated around - they weren't even carrying their own rucks!

I always thought the Army should have had absolute physical tasks that you had to preform - or you couldn't get in. If it were a BFOQ it would have had to be something that soldiers had to do as part of their job. I always thought a good BFOQ would have been to carry the equivilant weight of the average soldier with a FCL, one kilometer in 7 minutes. That's like a brisk walk and granted , you're carrying a person on your shoulders, but I always thought that would weed out people who were just not physically capable of doing a lot of things. And it could be argued that a common required task of a soldier is to be able to take a wounded fellow soldier out of a fire zone.

After marching with this people I realized that there was no way I could ever count on them to move me if I got injured and couldn't walk. I can just hear it now "Wait here - I'll go get help!" Oh jeeez...

The FBI might have had a chance to make qualifying with the 10mm a BFOQ after the FBI shootout... it would have been a battle with the ACLU no doubt because of the disparate impact it would have on females, but - they may have had a good case to show that it was a BFOQ which trumps Disparate Impact.

Of course the FBI would have lost quite a few very good agents that were intelligent and competent investigators that just weren't good with qualifying with that powerful round.

As for my physical fitness today -

Today I do nothing.

I am going to the range tomorrow and I don't want the shakes or any muscle tremors to mess up my scores.
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Old October 15, 2011, 07:27 PM   #79
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I bent over to get a pan from a lower shelf and my back started spasming.

Now it feels like I have a strained back muscle. I'm not going to be lifting weights until my back feels better.

I didn't even pick up the pan, my back freaked out half way down.

This never happened to me when I was in my 20s or 30s.
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Old October 16, 2011, 02:56 AM   #80
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Well, according to a number of training sources, once a man hits his 40's, training emphasis should be on flexibility and range of motion. Resistance training is still good, unless one wants to lose both muscle and bone mass, but stretching, yoga, tai chi, etc have more benefit.

(Note: I'm 43, and have shifted from a weight-lifting focus to more bodyweight, calisthenic, and yoga type workouts - but I still lift. I just don't go for the heavy weights any more, but instead go more for reps at moderate weights.)
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Old October 16, 2011, 10:38 AM   #81
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Paging Jim Fixx.

Paging Jim Fixx.
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Old October 16, 2011, 11:31 AM   #82
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Quote:
Ever wonder why some folks complain about recoil from a .40 short & wimpy?? PULEAZE!
No. It's not a mystery to me.

Fired from a G23, or 4013, say, the .40 is rather snappy. Even from my G22, recoil is noticeably more than Fired my P229 or P226 where recoil is easy to manage.



Hey, what's this "you're a whimp" if you don't shoot a 10mm stuff. I know lot's of muscled up fella's in great shape who can pick what ever gun they like. Can't think of any who choose the 10mm. But the whimpy .40 is high on their list. And so is the 9mm.

10mm equals few choices in guns to choose from. Ammo availability isn't the greatest, and neither is wide choice of ammo.

There's more than one reason why the 10mm is absent from law enforcement. They tried it, remember? The cartridge batters the crap out of guns and wears them out in short order--almost as fast as it eliminates 3/4ths of any new LE recruitment class.

Last edited by Nnobby45; October 16, 2011 at 11:41 AM.
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Old October 16, 2011, 11:59 AM   #83
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Ive been a lifelong practitioner of Martial Arts since the early 60's. And the number one thing I can pass on to anyone who wants to stay fit is to maintain a strong core. All strength, balance, and recoiling movement comes from the core.

No matter how old you are , barring any physical barriers you can exercise your core. Yes theyre are other things that can be done, depending on physical form. But core work is very simple.
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Old October 21, 2011, 09:28 AM   #84
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Quote:
Big Shrek:
"The only reason the FBI had to downgrade the 10mm to the .40 Short & Wimpy is because of WEAKLINGS!!
If liberals hadn't made 'em take wimps & weaklings into gov't service, they'd still be using 10mm.
Hello! Its Law Enforcement! If you gotta hire someone to carry a gun & whooparse, get the strongest humans you can find!!
Mr. 5'9 with a 125# max benchpress ain't gonna cut it!! Go get Ms. Amazon 6'3 who can benchpress half a VW bug!"

I agree with the rest of your post. But I gotta chime in to say that I would really, really prefer if FBI agents were the best possible investigators, and not just the biggest guy who applies. .40 S&W will do the job just fine if it comes to shooting. Though I still struggle to understand why more law enforcement agencies don't use .45 ACP.
Also, I am 5'8 and I benchpress 325 lbs. Am I still too short for the FBI? Or does my relative strength make up for it? I handle a .357 mag recoil well, so I guess 10MM would probably not be so bad either... Short does not entail wimpy. In fact, one of the toughest guys I know is my height and weighs about 125. He isn't "strong" in the same sense as me, but he's got an iron will and I'm sure that he would be able to take anything that came his way.

I agree with your general point though. It really amazes me how comfortable some people can be with being fat lazy slobs. It's disgusting really. In fact, in a job which demands you use your body it's downright irresponsible. At my college there is a cop who looks like he weighs about 350 Lbs and I can't help but wonder how he plans to catch some 20 year old punk who stole someone's textbook... Or even draw his weapon fast enough to respond to a situation which dictated it. Folks like that make me mad. Hit the gym! Do your job...!

As to the OP's original point, personally Physical fitness is one of my top priorities in life in general. I'm never going to eat great... but I burn it all off running my *** off and lifting weights. I Usually lift & run 3 times a week. Every other week I spend an hour on the punching bag, and about once a month I go shooting. I would really like to shoot more, but time constraints make it impossible.
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Old October 23, 2011, 08:16 PM   #85
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Classic disparity of force situation. In a case where a reasonable person would conclude that the aggressor is superior in their ability to bring lethal force, even if not armed, the victim would be justified in the use of deadly force.

But that victim must reasonably believe that the aggressor has the intent, ability and opportunity to use deadly force or that force that could reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical harm.


So, multiple aggressors, man on woman, major size difference, disability, age, all those figure in.
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:13 PM   #86
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Physical fitness be damned!
There are those of us who simply are no longer capable .. but we're still armed.
I have lived more than 7 decades. Ain't no match for a 20 year old. Awareness and atttitude have everything to do with it.

I still have the awareness ... still have the attitude. A twenty-something may knock me to the ground but they better render me incapable from the first blow. If not, they'll never see thirty ... I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM!
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:33 PM   #87
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Physical fitness be damned ?

Drop and give me 20 !
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:48 PM   #88
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Yea, keep thinking that physical fitness stuff. 20+ years of running 3 to 5 days a week got me shot knees. Pushups = torn rotor cup over 20 years and combatives and general training mayhem = lots of other bits and pieces with assorted damage.

The bodys only made to do so many reps and so many steps and then it breaks, so pay now or pay later but make no mistake you will pay for your fitness in more ways than you know.
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Old October 23, 2011, 09:49 PM   #89
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Here is the way most people should look at this.

I know what I am capable of. Very little. Bad shoulder, bad knees, and too many years without lifting weights. On the one hand, I know that I could take the initiative, and put down a person bare handed, even one far larger than I am, because I know some combat skills. I have enough strength, enough training, and reflexes and balance that can carry me through a quick takedown.

Anyone who gets into my face and threatens me, If I believe he is serious, is going down. I will not give him the opportunity to strike first. I don't have to. I have been threatened with violence,and if I don't see a clear path of avoiding it, I will take the fight to the enemy.

My enemy, obviously, will have underestimated me, if he thought I would submit to attack without fighting back.


OTOH, do I dare underestimate him? Not at all. When I am seriously in fear for my safety, when all else fails, I am going to go all out, and do everything possible to disable him.

An unarmed opponent is the worst situation to be in when you are an older, or more fragile person, and carrying a weapon. Will you exercise lethal force when you need to, or will you withold the use of your weapon until it is too late, because it felt wrong shooting a guy who just punched you?

If you are attacked or accosted, it is your duty to yourself to consider a worst case scenario. You have to assume that the guy who has been watching you from across the bar, and just came over and poured beer on your shoes is just as dangerous as a rabid pit bull. Unless you are absolutely confident that you can stop him otherwise, go straight to threat of lethal force and follow through with that threat.

many, many people have died or gone through life altering events because they underestimated the threat an assailant posed. They did not respond properly.

Kinda disjointed there, and I didn't really do a great job saying it, but in summary, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE HOW POWERFUL, VICIOUS, ANGRY, OR DETERMINED TO HURT YOU YOUR ASSAILANT MIGHT BE. If someone has just accosted you in a parking lot and calls you evil, it may be a simple matter of walking away, but in the next second, you may be fighting for your very life against a psychotic who thinks you are satan.
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Old October 25, 2011, 01:05 AM   #90
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get ready

I have PT scores and records for the bulk of my career. There is a discernable trend. Your scores and performance will drop, whether you train or not. Your hearing and eyesight will deteriorate too. By the time you reach 50 something, if you remain active, you will hurt, and may be hurt from injury and overuse. Count on it.

I will not forget the comments from one of our young lion types as the 50 yr olds recovered from a 1.5 mile run. When he learned that at HIS age several of us posted faster times than he did that day, he asked "What happened?"

Arrogant stupid fool. Life happened, age happened. You can forestall the aging process, but you cannot prevent it.
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Old October 25, 2011, 01:29 AM   #91
briandg
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You gotta be kidding.

THis is all just because I got old?

Bummer.
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Old October 25, 2011, 07:38 AM   #92
Japle
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Quote:
Posted by BGutzman:
The bodys only made to do so many reps and so many steps and then it breaks, so pay now or pay later but make no mistake you will pay for your fitness in more ways than you know.

Posted by bamaranger:
By the time you reach 50 something, if you remain active, you will hurt, and may be hurt from injury and overuse. Count on it.
Oh, what a load of crap!

On workout days (3 days per week) I do in excess of 130 pushups. I'm 65 years old. I must have done over 150,000 pushups in my life.

Yesterday, I did 68 pushups in 90 seconds. I've never been stronger.

When I was a kid, I was big into pullups and held the Jr High and HS records. I can still do 20 pullups, because I do them often.

No sign of any breakage yet.

The people I see at the gym who have broken something are the ones who didn't get enough exercise, ate themselves into obesity and hurt themselves doing something simple.
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Old October 25, 2011, 07:41 AM   #93
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Two words for you...

Water

Aerobics
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Old October 25, 2011, 08:42 AM   #94
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Aside from the types that Japle describes, the types I see who suffer from a lot of long-term injuries tend to fall into some other groups, too.

1) Those who put in a lot of time running on pavement; this is especially true for those who put in a lot of miles in jump boots (how many old Army and Marine guys do I know with bad knees, ankles, and/or feet? let's say a lot.)

2) Those who put in a lot of time jumping out of airplanes with round 'chutes. (Airborne guys with bad knees and backs?)

3) Those who hit hard objects many thousands of times. (Arthritis in hands and feet.)

4) Those who lift excessive amounts of weight.

5) Those who force full range of motion on exercises where that really isn't a good idea (bending elbows past 90degrees while moving heavy weight, for example).

I don't see so many long term yoga injuries... and I don't know a lot of people who crippled themselves up from hiking. Don't know too many injured canoe guys...
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Old October 25, 2011, 09:06 AM   #95
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I'm in the condition I'm in because I worked a warehouse and dock under a crazy supervisor, car wrecks, and just a general tendency to push my physical exertion far beyond my physical limits when working.

i wish I'd put a lot more concern into the things that happened to me. I had both hernias repaired, but never did anything about my back or shoulder.

I'm pleased as can be that a 65 year old man can do pushups. This 50 year old man was a robust strong young man, but he just got his keister stomped by a really hard life.

I really wonder about the guy I bought cement mix from a few years ago. He lifted and carried it 2 bags at a time. (160 pounds)
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Old October 25, 2011, 01:38 PM   #96
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Oh, what a load of crap!

On workout days (3 days per week) I do in excess of 130 pushups. I'm 65 years old. I must have done over 150,000 pushups in my life.

Yesterday, I did 68 pushups in 90 seconds. I've never been stronger.

When I was a kid, I was big into pullups and held the Jr High and HS records. I can still do 20 pullups, because I do them often.

No sign of any breakage yet.

The people I see at the gym who have broken something are the ones who didn't get enough exercise, ate themselves into obesity and hurt themselves doing something simple.
Its one thing to do pushups or run for yourself... Try running 3 -5 miles everyday on the pavement, I dont mean slow jogging, I mean running.

Try 12, 15, 20 mile road marches with 35 - 60 lbs on your back not including full body armor and weapon, or jumping off the back of a 5 ton military vehicle with all the goodies.

How about push ups with someone elses feet on your shoulders.

My point isnt about complaining about what I swore to do and did do for my nation my point is all that fitness DOES have a price and it can be very high especially as you get older.

If its all so easy then why to only about 10% of military people actually make it to retirement?
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:21 PM   #97
Japle
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Quote:
Posted by BGutzman:

If its all so easy then why to only about 10% of military people actually make it to retirement?
In my experience (27 years in uniform) nearly all leave the Service because, in no particular order:

They see the life isn't for them and move on to the civilian world.

They can't hack it, see there's no possibility of making decent rank and move on to the civilian world.

If they're officers, they get passed over for promotion and are forced out.

They sustain line-of-duty injuries and can't continue to serve.

They get caught doing something stupid and are forced out.

They fail to maintain a suitable diet and exercise program, get fat, can't pass the PT test and are forced out.

It's not easy. Nobody said it was easy. The physical part isn't all that hard, though. I've known plenty of guys who didn't exercise much and could pass the USAF PT test.

The regimen you describe is required for only a small percentage of the military.
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:48 PM   #98
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Saw a scrawny 22 year old in the LGS last week. Tatoos all over - up and down both arms and all over his neck.

He wanted to look at the Desert Eagle - the biggest most massive handgun in the store.

He couldn't pull the slide back !

He finally did lock the slide back but he failed on his first try and excalimed "Holy ****!"

If you're gonna handle a big gun, better get big arms.
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Old October 25, 2011, 02:50 PM   #99
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Also FYI

The McRib is back at McDonalds !

Woo hoo !
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Old October 25, 2011, 06:30 PM   #100
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BGutzman, you are just proving my point.

Training in an over-the-top way is not conducive to long-term health.

The training you describe is good for short-term preparation for battle, but is a recipe for long-term health ailments. Actually, most of the physical training done by the military is NOT recommended by most professional trainers.

For instance, the classic sit-up is not good for long-term lumbar health, and also doesn't do that good a job at abdominal toning - planks are better for both purposes, but don't strike DI's as manly enough.

Running on pavement, especially in things like boots, is not good for knees, ankles, hips, backs...

Ditto jumping from trucks with rucks on.

Do such activities condition a soldier for possible combat conditions? Sure. But back and leg injuries are more and more common; add IBA's to the mix, and our rate of back and leg injuries are much higher than they were in pre-armor days.

But that's not a good analog for whether an intelligent PT program is good for somebody in the long term.

You have to design your training for the goals you are trying to meet.
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