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Old September 21, 2011, 11:18 PM   #51
Hook686
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As a disabled old man I have thought about the outcome of a hostile encounter. There are a limited number of senarios where I have any sort of chance of surviving. Distance and awareness are my friends. If in doubt I cross the street, go to different store, do not answer the door, .... Discretion seems the better part of valor. My best defense is my large dog, as he might focus attention on him at first. This might buy me a couple of minutes, or a few feet of distance in a bad situation.
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Old September 22, 2011, 09:25 AM   #52
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If you are able to be physically fit and you are not, then all of your other methods of defense have been compromised. Physical fitness contributes to mental clarity, and the mind is the weapon, everything is a tool.

The next fight for your life will be whatever it is, and your fitness level could be the difference between living and dying. Relying upon a firearm and situational awareness without more to protect you is as foolish as relying upon your bench press or squat without more.
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Old September 22, 2011, 11:54 AM   #53
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A firearm won't protect against diabetes, hypertension, certain abdominal cancers, etc.

Self-defense isn't always about bad guys.
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Old September 22, 2011, 12:13 PM   #54
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We had a pretty good discussion about this a few months ago..

Quote:
Is PT a part of your personal firearms defense strategy?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tness+training
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Old September 22, 2011, 12:52 PM   #55
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Man people need to know that they need to be physically fit inaddition to being good shots. They both go hand in hand. If you cant sprint 100 yards then your in trouble or if your breathing hard after a minute of jacking jacks try to get into at least half decent shape.
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Old September 23, 2011, 06:56 PM   #56
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If you are out of condition do think seriously about trying to remedy that. Walking, bicycling and/or swimming can be a great low impact way to get started on the road back to being in some semblance of decent shape.

Also the classic simple bodyweight exercise of the pushup is also a great way to start on your way back. As you get into better shape then start adding in more stuff.

You don't have to spend a bunch of money to get back into shape. And small gains will turn into big gains.
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Old September 23, 2011, 08:41 PM   #57
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A firearm won't protect against diabetes, hypertension, certain abdominal cancers, etc.
There is no evidence that fitness prevents cancer.

Type 2 diabetes and hypertension (but it is pretty far from a sure thing).
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Old September 24, 2011, 12:37 PM   #58
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brickeyee, sorry, you are very wrong.

Deep tissue abdominal fats have been shown to have high correlation, and most likely causal, relationships with stomach and liver cancers.

Obesity is a serious problem.

(Was just discussing this with the company Physician's Assistant an hour ago; have heard the same from several Navy flight surgeons; my RN wife was taught the same thing... curious about why you think the opposite.)
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Old September 24, 2011, 12:49 PM   #59
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Yea brickeye, the company physician Assistant said that "So you know that's gotta be the truth"!
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Old September 24, 2011, 04:43 PM   #60
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farmerboy, you left out the flight surgeons (multiple) and the RN. Tell you and brickeyee both what, why don't you cite some reputable sources that say obesity has no linkage to abdominal cancer? Either of you, please feel free.

A simple search for "obesity abdominal cancer" turned up page after page of articles on the subject.... but it's easier for some people to just play class clown.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...t/Risk/obesity

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/117/13/1658

http://www.healthcarecentre.biz/heal...on-cancer-risk

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/can...l/riskfactors/

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/200...er-cases-in-us

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-05/h...s?_s=PM:HEALTH
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Old September 24, 2011, 05:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Deep tissue abdominal fats have been shown to have high correlation, and most likely causal, relationships with stomach and liver cancers.
Correlation is not causation.

It is very far from 'proven.'
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Old September 24, 2011, 07:59 PM   #62
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Have We Taken a Turn?

The original post advocated the benefits of physical fitness as a reasonable part of any defensive training regimen. A point I agree with 100%. A true Renascence Man (or Woman) is someone that strives to be the best possible athlete, warrior, scholar, artist that they are capable of being. The people I admire are/ were exactly that; Jeff Cooper comes to mind. Cool, although I fall far short of the goal it is still a goal. Some of the later post in this thread seem to be in defense of sloth and obesity. Am I missing something? There are varying degrees of potential and capability and not all of us can be Ranger or SEAL fit; but I think we all should strive to be 100% of what we can be. How can that point be argued?
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Old September 24, 2011, 09:43 PM   #63
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Old September 25, 2011, 01:15 PM   #64
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It's funny.... my father-in-law is pushing 70. He's had multiple knee replacements, one of which did not go well and had him laid up with a deep bone infection for months. Yet he gets outside multiple times a week, shooting bows or black powder. He's not as physically active as he was 20 years ago, but he's as active as his older and injured body will allow him to be.

Some people are better at making excuses, than with making the most of what they have.

I'm happy he isn't one of those.
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Old September 25, 2011, 01:39 PM   #65
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Like a poster above, I do not understand sloth and excuses.

I'll be 44 in less than a month. A few weeks ago, I made a decision to cut some weight and enter my first jiu jitsu tournament. I'm training six days a week for it.

In the last three weeks I'm down from 215# to 206#, and in three more weeks I'll enter that tournament below 200 pounds. I haven't been under 200 pounds in twenty years. I sleep better, think more clearly, and wake up with energy and enthusiasm for the day.

Right now, I'm stronger, lighter, and in better condition than I have been in two decades. With this increased level of fitness, can there be any doubt that I am more deadly than I was? No, there cannot be.

Get up and go do something for yourself. You won't be sorry.
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Old September 25, 2011, 01:42 PM   #66
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The point is that physical fitness is a not a must. Obviously it offers many advantages, but as many people who have severe physical limitations have proven, the ability to defend themselves quite effectively is not predicated on a high level of physical fitness.
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Old September 25, 2011, 02:42 PM   #67
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So I guess we senior citizens who aren't black belts in multiple martial arts disciplines and who don't run 12 miles every morning before breakfast should just stop considering carrying a gun for self defense. Is that the point of this discussion?

I respectfully bow out.
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Old September 25, 2011, 03:35 PM   #68
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I can see it now, Ex Navy seal exercised his whole life, ran 20 miles a day expert on hand to hand combat and martial arts expert but now turned bad guy for crack. Was gonna rob 93 year old in wheel chair for money. 93 year old pulls out hawg leg from cushion of wheel chair and caps BG right between the eyes, End of Story!!!! haha Just dont let that hound dog mouth overload that bird dog a$$! You can be blessed with health and fitness and do all kind of amazing things but its awfull hard to outrun a bullet. And dont mess with the less fortunate, They'll just shoot ya.
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Old September 25, 2011, 10:40 PM   #69
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Aguila Blanca, the point is not that you should not carry. The point is that there are other things you can do that improve your total defensive capability, and overall health.

The point is also that carrying a gun doesn't mean you can bring a gun into play.

My best friend (same age as me, within three weeks) and I ran some drills a little while back. Gave him a blue inert Glock, put the two of us at bad breath distance, and told him to draw on me.

He tried several times. He didn't succeed once. If I know how to jam somebody's draw, what makes you think a bad guy won't know how to do it?

I then taught my friend some counters. Is physical fitness a requirement? No... but it certainly helps quite a bit.

I have a cop friend who has had drug dealers draw on him several times; he hasn't drawn, as his first reaction was to stop their draw and disarm them. A couple or a few ended up with broken arms or wrists for their trouble. That friend also does a regular kettle-bell workout. He doesn't look that big, but his forearm strength is one major factor in why those BG's got hurt, quickly and decisively.

farmerboy, your 93 year old in the wheelchair would have a bit more trouble if your crackhead ex-seal approached from behind, or from a rear flank. Limited mobility leaves one much more vulnerable to flanking maneuvers.

So, physical fitness factors (strength and mobility) are very likely to impact total self-defense capability.

And, physical fitness helps stave off other maladies, and prolongs life - while letting people enjoy a better quality of life.

Again, some people just seem to want to make excuses. If you can't do a thing, that's ok. Just don't pretend the thing has no value, because you can't do it.
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Old September 25, 2011, 10:49 PM   #70
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Quote:
Aguila Blanca

So I guess we senior citizens who aren't black belts in multiple martial arts disciplines and who don't run 12 miles every morning before breakfast should just stop considering carrying a gun for self defense. Is that the point of this discussion?

I respectfully bow out.
Come over to the farm, We'll toss a few hay bales and have a few shots, I'll get you into shape.

BTW the shots are .12 and .20

and

Bourbon


after the .12 and .20

Of course
Quote:

who don't run 12 miles every morning

A solution, they're called horses
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Old September 26, 2011, 08:54 AM   #71
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It's going on 9:00 a.m.

Time to do my pushups...
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Old September 26, 2011, 01:08 PM   #72
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When I was a young boy my father and great grandfather went hunting. My dad came back sore, tired, and without success- frankly, he was worn out. My great grandfather had gotten a deer, field dressed and drug it back, and he was by no means tired. He was 86 at the time and he raced SCCA events until he was 92. He walked everyday, worked in his little orchard (his retirement project) and made homemade applesause, apple vinegar, pear sauce, et cetera. He was active and enjoyed his life, finally going peacefully one night.
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Old September 30, 2011, 07:00 AM   #73
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I was doing curls with 37lbs dumbells but they were concrete weights, and the plastic had cracked and was leaking dust.. I'd already used Gorrilla glue to seal the cracks, and then later I put duct tape over the newer cracks. it was a mess, so I thought it was time to dispose of the concrete weights.

I only had weight in 10lb increments in iron weights - itlbs had gotten fairly easy anyway, so I just decided yto move up to 40lbs. I had no problem with my arms, curling that weight, but last night I strained a stomach muscle on my left side curling the 40lbs.

I have had 5 hernia operations in my life so far, so, there are lim\its I run up against.

I never thought a measley increase of 3 lbs of weight would make a difference, but to my stomach muscles it obviously did...
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Old September 30, 2011, 09:15 AM   #74
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A great question by the OP ... I'm 66, weigh only about 10 pounds more than I did in college and try to stay active ... I don't have arthritis, but my back ain't what it used to be, which limits the kind of training I can tolerate, and that includes martial arts ... I try to practice around my back, using free weights to maintain muscle tone and a home treadmill to keep my ticker ticking ... here's one thing I do religiously -- grip strengthening ... I use a "heavy" tension Gripmaster and it has made a huge difference in my ability to get my gun on target and to deal with recoil in getting it back on target, as well as the amount of time I can spend shooting at the range ... strong hands and wrists are the start of repeat accuracy for me; if you can make the first shot but can't keep the gun on target, you could be in trouble ...
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Old September 30, 2011, 08:06 PM   #75
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Quote:
The point is also that carrying a gun doesn't mean you can bring a gun into play.

My best friend (same age as me, within three weeks) and I ran some drills a little while back. Gave him a blue inert Glock, put the two of us at bad breath distance, and told him to draw on me.

He tried several times. He didn't succeed once. If I know how to jam somebody's draw, what makes you think a bad guy won't know how to do it?
I then taught my friend some counters. Is physical fitness a requirement? No... but it certainly helps quite a bit.

I have a cop friend who has had drug dealers draw on him several times; he hasn't drawn, as his first reaction was to stop their draw and disarm them. A couple or a few ended up with broken arms or wrists for their trouble. That friend also does a regular kettle-bell workout. He doesn't look that big, but his forearm strength is one major factor in why those BG's got hurt, quickly and decisively.

farmerboy, your 93 year old in the wheelchair would have a bit more trouble if your crackhead ex-seal approached from behind, or from a rear flank. Limited mobility leaves one much more vulnerable to flanking maneuvers.

So, physical fitness factors (strength and mobility) are very likely to impact total self-defense capability.

And, physical fitness helps stave off other maladies, and prolongs life - while letting people enjoy a better quality of life.

Again, some people just seem to want to make excuses. If you can't do a thing, that's ok. Just don't pretend the thing has no value, because you can't do it.
Pretty much dead on.

Think of it like being a Boy Scout and Be as Prepared as YOU can be.
Will being fit help your survival chances? Heck Yeah!

Or think of it in Zombie Apocalypse terms...the kid from "Zombieland" had it right...Rule #1 - Cardio, Cardio, Cardio...
Whether you are outrunning Zombies, gang members, dogs, muggers, rapists...etc...if you can outrun 'em...yer safe.
Rule #2 - Double Tap, Double Tap, Double Tap...self explainitory...lol
Zombieland Rules work on bad guys too...

In the case of Martial Arts...its dang sure better than NOT being trained.

Combine Martial Arts with higher-than-normal human strength, and you REALLY have things working to your advantage.

Add to that medical knowledge of the human body and how to use an attacker's own body against themselves,
or totally incapacitate them with or without killing them...that's pretty darn good stuff to know.

The more you know, the stronger you are, the higher amount of possibilities you have of escaping a truly bad situation with your life.
That's a bottom line that anyone should be able to get behind.
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