The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 12, 2011, 02:59 PM   #26
ToraBoraBlues
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 4
Somewhat related topic, if anybody here has access to an outdoor or backyard range, I highly recommend setting up a course, even if it's as simple as cans on a log. Do it once rested, then do five minutes of vigorous physical activity e.g. running at a near sprint or burpees and then repeat the course. It will give you an idea of how you WILL shoot during an andrenaline rush.
ToraBoraBlues is offline  
Old September 12, 2011, 08:43 PM   #27
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,236
stonewall,

I still do 180 degree front splits. I still do spinning heal kicks (high) on bags. I work out three days a week. One day feet (kicks), one day hands, and a third general day workout. And Sundays I sometimes do weights when I'm bored. Been doing this since collage. 56 years old now.

And weekly range session were my gun practice is virtually all street orientated.

See I made martial arts and shooting my hobbies long time ago. Some people like golf, some tennis, and I just love to workout and shoot. Of course my wife thinks it's all a bore. But hey, she loves to paint the rooms and garden (and you can guess how I feel about that!)

Deaf
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old September 12, 2011, 10:40 PM   #28
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
All that exercising stuff is great, even being 20 years old was great too but you can't stay that way forever. We all are I'n different categories, ages fitness levels and all. We all should be packing and some kind of training to the best of our abilities. Even law enforcement officers, look at some of their bodies not all are fit alot are way out of shape yet they handle and take care of situations on a day to day basis. Just be prepared and the most thing is use your head.
farmerboy is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 07:17 PM   #29
BUFF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 27, 2011
Location: Augusta, KS
Posts: 220
The strongest muscle is between your ears. Avoiding conflict is the best move. Father Time is a cruel S.O.B! Not everybody is Steven Segal or Chuck Norris.

My father grew up in the oil fields, connecting iron on tall buildings and ranching. He's 77 and I still wouldn't want to tangle with him. But he'd just as soon shoot ya if he had to. Luckily his temper has mellowed with age too.

Don't think he ever tried a roundhouse kick like Walker, Texas Ranger. That guy didin't even need a gun.
BUFF is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 07:27 PM   #30
ZeSpectre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,276
The thing is, you can be a marathon cyclist, hiker, racquetball playing, fencing fool (as I was) and one relatively minor incident can leave your abdomen looking like shredded hamburger inside.

Three major surgeries later I can (mostly) move like any uninjured person but I'm carrying about 50lbs of extra weight due to steroids, enforced sedentary lifestyle, and my own carelessness. I'm making decent progress back into a proper weight range now but I'll never again be where I was pre-injury no matter how much I exercise 'cause the damage was just too much.

Sometimes you don't get a choice in the matter of physical fitness. In fact the older you get the less choice you tend to have.

That's when you have to get smarter and figure out what is going to compensate for what time and nature may have taken away.
__________________
"The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"
ZeSpectre is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 07:52 PM   #31
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,599
It all sounds good in theory, and training and fitness are not likely to be a negative, but a high number of completely untrained (gun, fitness or H2H) people manage to defend themselves with firearms on a daily basis.

This is not to say that training isn't more likely to be beneficial than not but the importance might be a tad over blown, at times.

Awareness, logic and common sense are more likely to keep you out of or get you out of trouble, and you're (somewhat) less likely to lose those as you age... at least at first.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 08:04 PM   #32
robmkivseries70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2005
Location: free territory
Posts: 177
Check with your Dr. of course, but mine said,"Walk for 20 Min. a day, 6 days a week. As it gets easier, walk faster." I now have to stretch correctly or my lower back is out of it but I am loosing weight.
Best,
Rob
robmkivseries70 is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 08:35 PM   #33
PH/CIB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 281
Staying in as good as shape as possible not just for self defense but for enjoyment of life is a given, and I am always amazed at people with high levels of martial arts skills.

That being said almost anyone in any condition, old, young, fit, disabled, can pull a trigger and one bullet can be your ticket out of here.

Spent a year in Nam and saw much close quarters combat but no hand to hand combat.

I have thought of developing an arm guard for each arm for the outside of the arm from the elbow to the wrist with blades or spikes covered in foam and concealed by a long sleeve shirt. You would not want it on the inside of the elbow as punches could put it in your face. I hate bullies and now if you try everything to disengage but have to fight just blocking punches could cut off your attackers fingers. I also thought of developing a similar leg guard for the front of the thighs and calves to block foot kicks and concealed by your pants and if it came to grappling you could literally cut your opponent to ribbons. Can you imagine a knee to the groin. Am in the process on working on a patent now.

Probably illegal or developed by someone, and would have to be used only defensively but seems like a logical solution.
__________________
Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net
PH/CIB is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 09:31 PM   #34
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
To the last poster, I'd rather just pull my gun if i had to and shoot the Son of a Gun!
farmerboy is offline  
Old September 13, 2011, 09:41 PM   #35
egor20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,762
Quote:
I have thought of developing an arm guard for each arm for the outside of the arm from the elbow to the wrist with blades or spikes covered in foam and concealed by a long sleeve shirt.

Probably illegal or developed by someone
Yup probably illegal.

Yup X-Man Wolverine did it better so the patent is already done,
__________________
Chief stall mucker and grain chef

Country don't mean dumb.
Steven King. The Stand
egor20 is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 04:18 AM   #36
Chris84
Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 36
Being fit is important. I am not as fit as I once was (due to injury) and am only in my late 20's. But I still can do hand to hand combate if the need araises long enough to get to my weapon. I have had to use H2H befor(while in Astan) and it was not fun at all. Being aware of what is around you and what is going on is key. If you only work the body and not the brain, then you will not be able to use the fit body that you have. I am now able to work out and run some but it has taken me 5 almost 6 years to get back to where I can. But just because some one is older or not in great shape dont mean that they are less likly to be able to defend them selves. I saw this first hand when I was in my teens twice.

A family friend who at the time was in his early 80's was sitting in the truck in his driveway reading a paper when a car load of thugs driving by started firing at the truck. He was able get out of the truck pull both of the revolers ( 2 awesome original Colt SA 45's with 7.5 inch barrels) out of his pants and placed 11 out of 12 shots into their car befor it was able to travel around 50ft which was his field of view. One of the perps. begged the cop to take him away befor the OLD man desided to start shooting again. The even better part was is the perps. are the ones that called the police. LOL. Willey, the old man, told one of the cops to let them SOB's know that if they ever wanted to try him again that next time he would be aiming at them and not car parts. Which I feel was true because him and I use to fire at quaters placed on a post 10 yards in front of us. He was dead befor I ever hollowed one out, but he could do it at least 4 out of 6 shots and all shots hit the quater just not dead center.

My grand Pap when in his mid 70's and battleing cancer was easly able to stop a home invasion by a younger person. He able to get out of bed, grab his weapon and met the SOB as if was making it through the front door. The attacker went for him but he was quick enough to move and fire, wounding the attacker. The would be attacker did end up being a whole lot faster though once 38 rounds started his direction. He managed to get away since it took the police some 30 minutes to respond.

Both of these men had never stoped working their minds and brains and that is to why they were sharp enough to make it through alive. They knew that they may have to defend them selves but also knew that it would very short and quick on H2H and that the desiding factor would be the weapons skill and useage. Being in shape would have been nice for either of them since it took both of them a couple of days to get over the effects of the rush of it all. But it taught me one thing which I have seen posted a couple of times already in this thread. DONT MESS WITH AN OLD GUY HE WILL SHOOT YOUR A**
Chris84 is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 10:07 AM   #37
stonewall50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 178
Again great replies. Something that we might want to look at physilogically...

If a person of any age were to start a decent workout regimen some things would start to happen. Your awareness would improve. I know this seems odd, but if you adopt a program of hard work (and lay off the coffee) your body will process adrenaline MUCH better. So in a time of stress your adrenal glands will be kicking at full blast, and the more used to this and less burned out they are the better. Adrenaline will cause you to make mistakes too, and that is why it is good to work under stress during practice.

This has all been general thoughts on my part, and more of a reminder to keep in shape. I try to never assume I did enough work to NOT workout(but I still crash at night sometimes without doing anything, we all do). I will say that if you found me on the street you would realize I am not a fitness nut...I am sturdy built. I got myself a gut and I am not super stacked in arm muscle either. I will say that I regularly win in Jiu Jitsu because I know how to conserve my energy and use energy bursting rather than brute strength. Of course...the guys who regularly beat me do the same thing...but ARE physically fit too(and usually better lol).
__________________
Faith Reason Fraternus
stonewall50 is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 10:14 AM   #38
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Another benefit that, if it's been listed, I haven't noticed in this thread: People who work out regularly tend to be in a generally better mood than people who don't. A good workout releases endorphins.

Also, as stonewall50 noted, workouts help release and deal with stress. This also goes a long way toward improving overall mood.

I noticed, as a flight instructor back in the '90s, that students who remained physically active (gym, sports, outdoor hobbies) tended to perform better in the flight syllabus than did the students who locked themselves in a study area and remained generally tense. So, subjectively, physical activity in a completely unrelated area still seemed to bear on performance - most likely due to lowered overall stress levels.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 10:29 AM   #39
warrior poet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2007
Location: Whereever Uncle Sam wants to put me
Posts: 412
I don't think anyone has touched on a fundamental truth. Shooting is fun... physical activities are fun... at least they are to me and just about everyone that I know. One of the main reasons I shoot is because I enjoy it. I work out (Actually, I hate that term. I "play out" and it is SOOOOO much better.) because I enjoy it.

Food for thought. Orienteering. It combines land navigation, hiking, and physical activity into one of the most fun things to do in the woods. Plus, all those skills come in handy in hunting, self-defense, and overall fitness- physical and mental.
__________________
Trigger control: The skillful manipulation of the trigger, which causes the weapon to fire, while maintaining sight alignment and sight picture.
warrior poet is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 10:40 AM   #40
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
warrior poet - not a bad idea. For the technogeeks, add a GPS, a digital camera, and some online inputs to orienteering, and now you have geocaching.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 14, 2011, 04:10 PM   #41
stonewall50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 178
EXCELLENT idea. I need to get better at maps and compass. I generally never needed the because of where I hunt. While it is way out in the boondocks...I could always navigate via streams, sounds(highway and lumber mills and boats), and different types of woods(they were set up in blocks usually). Sounds like something I need to learn lol. We also use GPSs and overheads when we do boating stuff. Works pretty well...never been lost lol(but we dont go anywhere we dont know anyway).

I wish I could find some workouts that improve all around gun handling(be it retention, balance, etc). I mean nothing replaces standard handling obviously. I know that. I dont want anything to REPLACE handling a firearm, but I want something to incorporate into my standard workouts.
__________________
Faith Reason Fraternus
stonewall50 is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 06:27 PM   #42
Archer 9505
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 213
Functional vs traditional

I Agree physical fitness is a must. I recommend the more functional type exercises (Cross fit, SEAL Fit, etc) over traditional free weight work outs. I am no expert by any sense of the term. In my own experience the traditional gym / free weight work out may build strength, but dose not necessarily translate to what you may need during self defense. I have had the experience where I felt fit but after engaging in an altercation I experienced the old cliche "I was sore in places I didn't even know I had". Cross fit and other functional routines, work out those places you don't know you have. Most of these work outs are scalable so that yo don't have to be SEAL Fit to do a beneficial and functional SEAL FIT work out. I am 51 years old, believe me I scale back on the intensity but still get a good work out.

attached is a link to one of my favorite exercises. WTSHTF, being able to pick yourself up off the ground may be alot more helpful than being able to curl big weights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78CWM...eature=related
__________________
NRA Life Member
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"
It's a free country; in a free country, freedom is for more than just those that conform to the accepted.
Archer 9505 is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 06:43 PM   #43
FairWarning
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 814
I have long tried to emphasize this in "tactical" discussion threads. Your body is part of the equation, and All Hell Breaks Loose situations aren't going to be easy or unstressful. Better to be in the best shape you can for many reasons.

I am perpetually swamped at work, so it takes real drive to work out, but I still manage to do it, at least a couple times a week and home and in the gym on the weekend days. You truly DO think differently about yourself and the world around you when you feel and look great.

And regarding age....Chuck Norris is 71 and still in pretty darn good shape. He's my role model for old age.
__________________
Mauser Werke, Schmidt-Rubin, Remington, Colt, H&K, Weatherby, Browning, Ruger, Marlin, Mossberg, Saiga, S&W, Sig Sauer....a few friends of mine
FairWarning is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 06:53 PM   #44
old bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Not close enough to the beach
Posts: 1,151
I have a good friend who at 62 is a year younger than I am, and he summed it up best. “Don’t mess with an old guy, we are too old to fight or run so we just shoot attackers.” I do my best to keep in shape, but as another poster reminded me I’m no longer 30 years old. I often carry a cane not only to relieve the pressure on my bad knee, but I also have a large hunk of hardwood in my hand if needed.
old bear is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 12:45 AM   #45
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0untZer0 View Post
there is no recovery program like athletes go through in the NFL after ACL surgery or something. I'm not going to get back to some 95% number of what I was...


Bingo...threw my knee out while I was in the academy. But not while doing anything for the academy, playing football with my buddies. ACL and meniscus. Did a hybrid knee reconstruction with Dr. John Uribe the surgeon for the UM football players. The Police Department told me to come back after 1 year with clearance from my surgeon. Took 1 year out...muscle atrophy in my right quad due to the surgery failed to provide my clearance. So I worked out a year straight. Gained 20lbs of solid muscle. With supplements and the whole 9 yards...Now the Police department are no longer sponsoring for the academy. So no one to run me through again. I need 6k out of pocket. I quit goju ryu karate and other stuff (not my gun addiction of course) and I'm currently working a crappy job. And have since lost all that muscle weight I gained.


Lemme tell you, when I was benching 250lbs...I could shoot 1,000 rounds of ammo from my handguns and not even take a break.


Physical fitness is a must. Technique is amazing. But only goes so far.


SA 1911 - XD45 - G21sf - G22 - G27 - Hk USP 40 - SIG P226 E2 - Browning High-Power - S&W M19-3 - CZ-82 - Remington 870
Constantine is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 02:18 AM   #46
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
Had an eye opener the other day. Went shooting with my nephew. I could not hold on the target at 25 yards. Realized problem. Total knee replacement surgry, other knee blown and waiting TKR. Right shoulder limited movement. Have lost fine motor muscle needed for unsupported precision shooting.

Solution, Shoot from a supported position.

The solution to survival is the will to survive.
ltc444 is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 09:18 AM   #47
spclPatrolGroup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 349
I developed arthritus in my knee at a pretty young age, im only 32, but basically running at anything mroe than a light job will cause my knee to waterbaloon up. But I think there are a few cases where I can run faster scared, than someone else can ******. Hopefully I can drop 20-30 pounds to take some weight off.
spclPatrolGroup is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 09:55 AM   #48
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
spclPatrolGroup, good luck with that, in all sincerity. It worked well for me, although I didn't have arthritis.

My knees were starting to complain, though, on hill climbs, etc.

I'd let myself balloon up into the 230's a few years ago, after tweaking an old back injury and pretty much ceasing physical activity for a while. Of course, that made my back feel even better...

Got back into the gym, cut down the alcohol (I'm not much of a drinker, in any case, but I cut what I was drinking about in half) and almost entirely eliminated soft drinks. You'd be amazed at the calories in soft drinks...

So, I guess my first point of advice to you would be that exercise is good, but diet is crucial. People often don't realize how many calories are in soft drinks, or the difference "super-sizing" makes.

For that matter, even good restaurants tend to overdo the portion sizes. I switched mind-set to where I get doggy bags now, and don't try to finish large portions (if I'm out). At home, I cook what I plan to eat, instead of making huge portions. It helps avoid the temptation for seconds, or thirds, etc.

As far as the workout goes, my second piece of advice would be, go easy at first. Find out what your body's threshold is, and don't worry about what the other guys are doing. (Before I got hurt, I was benching 315ish, overhead pressing 210 - which was my then body weight.... you get the idea.) I don't go for broke, as far as weights go. Start light, and gradually increase. Hurt yourself early on, and it's too easy to quit. For that matter, it's easy to end up worse off than you started...

Next piece of advice: Cardio is great, and it is necessary, but it isn't efficient for weight loss. Resistance and interval training are much better for cutting weight; alternate or augment with cardio for cardiovascular benefits. There are many reasons for this, but as I understand it the main one has to do with resting metabolism. Muscle tissue burns more calories than does fat, when at rest.

So, the more fat you have, the more your body tends to want to gain fat. The more working muscle you have, the more it burns off while you sleep...

Tell you what, hill climbs are much easier at 210 than they were at 237... So are pull-ups, push-ups, getting out of chairs....

I ultimately want to get down to around 195. I figure my knees, back, and heart will thank me in the long run.

Again, good luck.
MLeake is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 05:54 PM   #49
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
Wait until you get older and develop any of the various problems that come with aging.

If you are lucky you may not come down with some of the more serious ones.
brickeyee is offline  
Old September 20, 2011, 11:07 PM   #50
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,506
Quote:
Next piece of advice: Cardio is great, and it is necessary, but it isn't efficient for weight loss. Resistance and interval training are much better for cutting weight; alternate or augment with cardio for cardiovascular benefits. There are many reasons for this, but as I understand it the main one has to do with resting metabolism. Muscle tissue burns more calories than does fat, when at rest.
I find cardio is best done first for 10 or 15 minutes, then my heart rate is kept elevated by the workout. YMMV. Still have a heart rate in the 50s to match my age.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13546 seconds with 7 queries