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Old September 10, 2011, 10:33 PM   #1
Usertag
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12 Guage for Home Defense?

I know for sure I'm going to buy (#4 00 Buckshot) in 2 3/4. But the question is, What is the absolute BEST brand to buy it in?
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Old September 10, 2011, 10:45 PM   #2
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I like a pump action in either Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.
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Old September 10, 2011, 11:18 PM   #3
IshootThings
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As Discern said above, I think that's pretty much what most people will agree with. As you saw in my thread, the 590 is pretty popular. I'm going that route.
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Old September 11, 2011, 03:32 AM   #4
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"I know for sure I'm going to buy (#4 00 Buckshot) in 2 3/4. But the question is, What is the absolute BEST brand to buy it in? "

#4 and 00 are different sizes of buckshot; 00 being much larger than #4. Perhaps you meant that you are going to buy both sizes. As to the best brand, someone else will have to advise you.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; September 11, 2011 at 03:39 AM.
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Old September 11, 2011, 07:55 AM   #5
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i use the 3" 00 an 3" 000 magnum buckshot in the remington loads an never had a problem with em.
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Old September 11, 2011, 08:27 AM   #6
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Buck shot can be had at $4.00-$6.00 a box of 5...spend $20 buying different rounds and take them to the range. The targets should make the choice for you.

Over the past 40 years or so, I've used both Federal and Remington buck shot on deer...never had a problem with either load. It's funny how much discussion there is on this, when the far majority of us will never fire a round in defense.

Either a Mossberg or Remington pump will fit the bill for you.

Last edited by krimmie; September 11, 2011 at 08:42 AM.
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Old September 11, 2011, 08:27 AM   #7
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The shotgun, nearly any, is a good choice. The shell, that kinda depends on where you live, if you have family and where they might be and how close your neighbors are. For inside a house, ranges in feet, a heavy load of bird shot works as well as anything without going through walls to endanger others.
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Old September 11, 2011, 09:04 AM   #8
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Federal Flitecontol 4BK FTW
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:04 AM   #9
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Mossberg 500 short barrel pump 12g with pistol grip.
Bird shot does the job.
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:12 AM   #10
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The above post is the worst one I have ever seen on this topic.

And most of the posts here aren't even answering his question. He is asking about best brand for ammo, not what gun he should buy.

As already said #4 and 00 are two different things, the 00 being much bigger projectiles, and less of them. Conversely the #4 is smaller projectiles, and more of them.

As was also already said buy Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc and shoot them all at a sheet of plywood and see how they "pattern" in your gun. Meaning see what the pattern on the paper produced by the projectiles is. There is no BEST brand per se. They are all so similar (in the same loads) it is just finding what shoots the best in your gun. I would shoot the different loads a few times at varying distances to see how the load acts as you shoot across your bedroom, down the hallway, etc. Figure out distances in your home you'd be likely to shoot and pattern your loads at those distances.
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Bird shot does the job.
...on birds.
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:28 AM   #12
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There are few absolutes in Shotgunland. Best to buy divers 5 packs and test in YOUR shotgun at the max range possible in YOUR house plus a yard.

When you find the one that patterns tightest, buy a lot of that.....
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:30 AM   #13
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Have you ever seen what 12g bird shot does to a human body from a 10-15 foot distance?

I have----Not Very Pretty!

If closer, then it's Plain Ugly!
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Old September 11, 2011, 10:55 AM   #14
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I dont doubt that birdshot at room distance will make an ugly wound. Personally I want to be reasonably assured that if I have to use a shotgun load for self defense, the BG will be STOPPED. I trust 00 buck to do that. I am not so sure about birdshot as is talked about in the box-o-truth test:

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

excerpt from page three:

Quote:
Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.
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Old September 11, 2011, 11:19 AM   #15
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As has been said, no one can advise you as to what the best brand of ammo is for your particular gun. Shotguns can be very funny about what they like and don't like. For example, my dad has a Remington 870 Wingmaster 20ga with a smoothbore slug barrel. As far as plain foster slugs are concerned, it shoots Winchester the best, Remington OK, and won't shoot Federal worth a darn. I, on the other hand, have a Remington 870 Express 12ga that shoots Federal the best, Winchester OK, the Remington the worst. Patterning buckshot is just as complicated, if not more so, than how accurately a gun will shoot slugs. As several others have noted, the only way to find the answer to your question is to buy a variety of ammo and see what patterns the best. I personally have had good luck with Winchester 3" #1 Buck and Remington 3" #4 Buck, but that's in my gun and not yours.

As to birdshot vs. buckshot: I have no doubt that, at very close range, birdshot can be quite effective because the pattern has not dispersed much and basically acts as one large mass. However, birdshot patterns typically disperse and shed velocity fairly quickly, especially from the IC or cylinder bore chokes of most HD-oriented shotguns. When the distance is measured in yards rather than feet, the small pellets of birdshot do not penetrate particularly deeply and are more apt to cause a gruesome-looking but superficial wound. The larger pellets of buckshot still have enough mass to penetrate adequately even after the pattern has dispersed quite a bit. My personal preference for HD ammo in a shotgun is BB at the finest (and then only in my 10ga) and #1 Buck at the coarsest. While 00 Buck seems to be the most popular loading, I prefer the the slightly finer shot because it gives me a greater payload of pellets.
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Old September 11, 2011, 01:23 PM   #16
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How is bird shot going to do if an intruder is wearing a leather jacket over a sweatshirt? If you have to shoot through a heavy upended table?
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Old September 11, 2011, 01:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.
Reading through the Boxoftruth paragraph, I disagree on #4 buck not being enough to reach vitals on a human at HD ranges. Of course disregarding an obstructed path(door, wall, chair) between the good guy and bad guy. With that said even then I think it's got spunk.
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Old September 11, 2011, 02:17 PM   #18
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Probably the best thread ever on the subject. From shotgunworld.com: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=109958

Excerpt:
Quote:
Small sized birdshot such as this #4 heavy dove load is a poor choice for deployment with a tactical shotgun. Wounds inflicted from birdshot tend to be gruesome yet shallow as they lack the penetration required to reach vital cardiovascular or central nervous system structures.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old September 11, 2011, 02:24 PM   #19
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Standard style stock and foregrip on a Mossberg 500 is my "ideal"... Ammo will be the "run of the mill" double ought buck shot...

Since I prefer the most versatility from my gun, I do not allow pistol grip only (PGO) nor the AR/AK type stock with drop down "detached" pistol grip.

Both of these severely limit the number of bonafide holds and "mounts" as well as firing positions.

On top of this, the pistol grip equipped guns are easier to take from the shooter in up close and personal contact that can occur in a CQB situation as is found in home defense quite often...

Brent
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Old September 11, 2011, 02:25 PM   #20
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Hogdogs sums it up pretty well right there...
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old September 12, 2011, 03:04 AM   #21
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What's popular isn't always the best. That's why, after extensive research on my part, I chose the Winchester SXP Defender. Give it a looksie.
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Old September 12, 2011, 06:32 AM   #22
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Winchester Ranger reduced recoil 00 work well for me. Have a Winchester 1300 with a pistol grip near the bed. The reduced recoil works well with the pistol grip. Also have not had any problems with it cycling through the 1100 or the 1201FP.
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Old September 12, 2011, 06:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Have you ever seen what 12g bird shot does to a human body from a 10-15 foot distance?

I have----Not Very Pretty!

If closer, then it's Plain Ugly!
Yes, birdshot can produce horrendous surface wounds, and can certainly be lethal if you're close enough.

00 buck can be effective out much farther. To see the damage to intermal organs requires an autopsy.

LOL, short bbl'd pistol grip and birdshot, huh?

Once watched a couple gang banger types try out their new pistol grip only shot gun. Admittedly, they had little experience with it, but when they'd fire at 10ft from the hip (they'd brought a bunch of phone books) they'd miss. When they tried to operate the slide the gun would turn at a 45 deg. angle and the slide wouldn't operate until the second or third try.

Yes, with practice that kind of performance can be greatly improved upon, but the pistol grip only shotgun's performance is much less efficient than a stocked shotgun. They were designed for storage in small places.

After that, they had to try out their new 9mm by unleashing rapid fire shots at no particular target in the general direction of a dirt bank.

Hope my comments aren't interpretated as taking such individuals lightly. Just making an observation.

Last edited by Nnobby45; September 12, 2011 at 06:43 AM.
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Old September 12, 2011, 06:53 AM   #24
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I use a win 1300 8 round ext tube loaded with rem #4 buck those seem to pattern the best out. Of my gun..... best adv would be try diff loads and. Buy bulk what works bestfor you and practice a lot.
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Old September 12, 2011, 08:22 AM   #25
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A lot of fine folk are putting down the 12g Bird Shot as a self defence load.

Well, if the Bird Shot load in 12g is inadaquate.
Then those Revolvers like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor that shoot the little .410 shells are'ent worth the squat????

Someone or anyone .....Explain
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Last edited by graysmoke; September 12, 2011 at 08:27 AM.
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