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Old September 7, 2011, 10:16 AM   #1
BLS700
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Bullet advice

I'm between the 165 grain partitions and ballistic tips. Shots will be pretty short I'd say 150 yards in. Most likely under 100. I like the partitions but this is the first time I'll be loading bullets for shots I expect to be so close. Anybody have a bad experience with the partitions at close range from an 06 or .308 (I'll be loading both)? Would Ballistic Tips open too fast? Any real life experience would be greatly appreciated.
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:18 AM   #2
AllenJ
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What are you going to shoot with them?
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:44 AM   #3
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Light skinned game like whitetail deer are what the BT's are designed for. They flat out put a hog down too, killed a 400lb boar with one last season but didn't get an exit, though I doubt a partition would have given one either. That big pig was thick. Blew up two smaller ones on the same sit with one shot. The 7mm08 I also shoot has taken numerous deer with a 150grn BT and devastating results. Haven't dropped the hammer on one this year with my .308 and its BT loads, maybe that'll change this weekend. I did have a weird situation last fall with a BT that passed between two ribs and straight out between two ribs and never expended, fluke or bad shot/luck any way you cut it it was my fault and I kick myself for not doing better.

Not a thing wrong with the Partition either, tons of game taken with them at some pretty good ranges over the years, just more of a controled expansion and weight retention bullet. I shoot the BT's now because they give me pinpoint accuracy. I shoot them in my .243, 7mm08, .308, and 30.06's.

Pick your poison between the two or any of the other similar bullets out there. If you do your part and make a good shot, they will all put the animal down for the count.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:06 AM   #4
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I refuse to use BTs because of the amount of meat they destroy.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:41 AM   #5
jmr40
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Used a 165 BT in a 30-06 at about 75 yards on a 260 lb bear. Complete penetration and went down quickly. Same results on several deer at around 125 yards. Hit 'em where there is no edible meat and you don't lose any.
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Old September 7, 2011, 02:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
I refuse to use BTs because of the amount of meat they destroy.
One of the reasons I dislike them as well. Especially at close range. They should change the name from Ballistic Tips to Fragmentation Grenades.

Quote:
Hit 'em where there is no edible meat and you don't lose any.
Perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder in the ribs and you may never have a problem. (Although I have seen a perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder by a friend using BT's fragment on mere ribs and puncture the guts) On a quartering to you or away shot? Get ready to throw half a deer away.
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Old September 7, 2011, 03:33 PM   #7
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But back to the original posters question.

I'd go with the partitions. They will give good penetration but unlike some controlled expansion bullets they aren't so tough that you barely get any expansion on deer sized animals. The front portion expands like a typical cup and core bullet but that partitioned off rear segment is usually going to exit.

Ballistic tips are a hollow point with a pretty colored plastic nipple snapped into the tip hole to increase the ballistic coefficient. But on game they still react just like a hollow point. Which is to say they over expand and fragment all to hell. Now some people like that. And when all goes well they can produce some spectacular DRT kills. But when it goes bad with them it can really go bad. And you usually won't have an exit hole to leak much blood onto the ground either.

I always say it like this. When I take my bow into the woods I am content to wait for the perfect shot angle. That is part of the added challenge of bow hunting. But when I carry a rifle I don't expect to have to be that picky. If I spot the buck a lifetime 80 yards away and quartering to wards me, I want a bullet that I'm confident will plow through his shoulder and into the vitals. I just do not have that confidence in BT's.
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Old September 7, 2011, 04:32 PM   #8
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I’ve never ever had a bad experience with a partition. Can’t say that for a boat-tail though. I also prefer the 165 grainer Partition in 30-06 as it shoots the best in my rifle, and awesome performance.
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Old September 7, 2011, 05:42 PM   #9
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Well, I was gonna stay out of this one, until somebody said that you don't get exit wounds with the Nosler Ballistic Tip. That is pure baloney. I've been shooting that bullet (130 grain in the 270) since the bullet came out, and I do not see any reason to change. How many deer have I shot with it - well at least 200 and probably 250 or more. I shoot them through the lungs and I wait for a side shot, and I don't remember a time that I didn't get an exit wound. I will suggest that you avoid angled shots through the front shoulder, unless you have no other shot available. I've had a few of those that didn't exit. That bullet is extremely accurate and extremely deadly. If you're going to shoot thicker skinned critters, the Partition might be a better choice, though I've never gotten the accuracy from the Partition that I get from the Ballistic Tip. And yes, the BT is a messy killer, but shoot em through the lungs and place it low enough that you don't ruin the backstrap.
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Old September 7, 2011, 06:20 PM   #10
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BT bullets were originally designed for long shots. They have BTs to retain velocity. Most are fairly fragile to insure expansion at long range when the bullet has lost some speed. At 150 yards or less they don't make a difference. A good controlled expansion bullet that both opens up but gives through and through penetration ensuring a blood trail would likely work best. Most bullet makers will give you a list of suggested bullets at whatever range and game you're hunting.
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Old September 7, 2011, 06:45 PM   #11
Art Eatman
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I guess that the majority of bucks I've killed with an '06 were with the Sierra 150-grain flat-base. Pretty much dropped in their tracks. Close or far, didn't seem to make any difference.

I generally don't figure on hitting eating meat.
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Old September 7, 2011, 07:07 PM   #12
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The ones I knock over with GameKings pretty well flop right where they stand. I've never recovered a bullet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS700
Shots will be pretty short I'd say 150 yards in. Most likely under 100.
Just about anything would do at those ranges. I'd bet that lots of deer are put down every year with 150-170 grain Core-Lokts. At those range the choice of bullets us huge. Take your choice from one of several.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:17 PM   #13
BLS700
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thanks for the responses. that's basically what I was wondering about the bt's. I should clarify the shot length. It'll most likely be under 150 and probably shorter but I'd like the versatility to hunt longer distances and not have to switch up the load. I'd also like to be able to hunt black bear with the same bullet but I'm not worried about that presently.
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Old September 10, 2011, 03:02 AM   #14
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ideal

I read once where a known writer (Barsness? maybe) called the Ball. Tip the "ideal" whitetail bullet.

They were all the rage here for some time. My buddy shot them from the 7 mag and got explosive chest wounds around 100-125 yds, not sure of weight. I killed 3-4 deer with .270/130 Ball Tips but my results were not that dramatic. Ranges were +/- 200 so maybe the velocity was down??

They are an accurate bullet, I've not heard anybody complain about that aspect. Too, the front of a Partion is pretty frangible, and meat loss is certainly possible w/ a Partition arriving fast and hard inside 100.

I save Partitions for "light" deer rounds, .243 and the .223. I have some others on hand 'case I ever get to hunt real big game that have surfaced in trades and such, but I do not hunt Partitions on deer in typical .270 and up cals.

Never shot a bear.
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Old September 10, 2011, 07:50 AM   #15
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We use the 150 grn Ballistic Tips in our 3006 for deer, it really whacks em! I use the B-Tip in my .270 win also, and in my daughters .243, with great results. As far as the Partition bullet goes I have only shot at one deer with one, .270 win 130 grn, at 100 yds or so, standing quartering to me, the bullet struck her behind the left front leg and came out in front of her right hip,,, and it wasn't the prettiest when I gutted the deer, But she was dead and she never knew what hit her so I will always hunt with both types of bullets from Nosler...I did take a few of those 150 grners, out of the offhand hide after it penetrated both shoulders of a couple of bigger deer 175lb to 200 lb range,,, they worked perfectly!! DRT.
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Old September 10, 2011, 08:21 AM   #16
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I hate to choose door number three when you didn't ask, but a nice in-between bullet from Nosler, both in cost and in terminal performance, would be the Accubond. It was designed to fly like a BT and expand like a Partition.
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Old September 10, 2011, 09:00 AM   #17
Art Eatman
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I really don't think it matters at all as to what brand of 30-caliber bullet in the 150/165-grain size is used, particularly inside of 300 yards. (Assuming reasonably tight groups from the rifle.)

My father only used 150-grain Hornadys, and witnesses watched him make one-shot kills out to 500 yards. I had a 350-yard DRT with a 150 Rem Bronze Point, and a 450-yard DRT with the Sierra.

Hit the heart or the neck. The fun ends and the work begins.
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Old September 10, 2011, 09:59 AM   #18
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I have a reasonable amount of experience with ballistic tips ( accutip, Silver tips, nosler BTs ) in the following cartridges : .243 win, 7mm-08, .308 and .30-06. probably 30+ deer between myself and family members. Our deer here in western NY are big fat corn fed deer , usually running 150-175 lbs for a buck, with a few hitting 200lbs.

I have yet to recover a single BT bullet from any deer shot broadside in the ribs. entrance holes are around .50" and exit holes are about an inch across. I wonder where on the deer that people are hitting deer with BTs and ruining so much meat...the shoulder?

It is by far my favorite bullet design for deer.
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Last edited by mikejonestkd; September 10, 2011 at 06:21 PM.
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Old September 10, 2011, 11:21 PM   #19
BLS700
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I'm starting to come the conclusion that Mr. Eatman stated. I've considered the Accubond but it seems like there are less real world experiences. I'm up to have that tossed into the mix.
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Old September 11, 2011, 12:18 AM   #20
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I really like the SST Hornady in 308 & 270win as well,But a bad hit will make a mess up close.And have great knockdown way out there.
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Old September 16, 2011, 01:21 AM   #21
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recovered BT

I shot a very average 135 lb or so meat buck one year with a .270/130 Bal. Tip and was able to recover the bullet, or what was left of it. Buck was quartering away and dx was 175 yds. Bullet hit 2-3 inches ahead of the diaphram and ranged forward into chest and shoulders. About half way thru it came apart and the jacket separated from the core. I got two pieces, one of lead and the other of jacket, about nickel size and both resembled a wad of chewed gum. No exit.

Deer ran about 30 yds and went down. Wound was not that dramatic, basically typical for a "deer" caliber and a deer bullet. Others report terrible wounding with BT's but the half dozen I have shot w/ .270/130 have just been bullet holes in deer. The darn bullet shoots well out of my Wally World Rem 700 and that is why I use (or rather "used) it. All may shots w/ the .270 except one have been on ROW's where the ranges have been longer, and velocity was likely way down. But the one I shot up close, 20 yds, ran the farthest of all, over 100 yds w/ no heart, and again, only a typical bullet hole.

For me the BT greates asset is its an accurate bullet from my budget rifle.
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Old September 16, 2011, 08:17 AM   #22
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What a bunch of confusing answers. Some are talking about ballistic tips and some are talking about boat tails. It’s like comparing apples to coconuts.

I use Hornady SST’s for deer (.243, .270, 30-06). At close range (100 yards or less) they sometimes fragment and sometimes they don’t . It depends on where you hit the deer. I have alleviated the fragmentation problem by shooting them in the head.

I also use flat based bullets because they have better accuracy at close range (most shots for me are a 100 yards or so) than boat tailed ones that are designed for accuracy at longer ranges.

I also fail to see any correlation in bullet expansion between flat based and boat tailed.
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Old September 16, 2011, 09:34 AM   #23
Art Eatman
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Using Sierras, I get equally tight groups with either the flat-based or boat-tails in 150-grain. MOA or better at 100 and at 500 yards with both 150s, 165 HPBT and 180 SPBT.

From experience and comments here from a Sierra guy some years back, the 150-grain boat-tail can be over-driven for velocity and it will blow up at close range--as I discovered on a mule deer's neck at 25 or 30 yards. The jacket is somewhat thinner than that of the flat-base. However, if the velocity at impact is 2,700 or so--or less--it won't disintegrate.

The 165 Sierra HPBT seems to open up dramatically, but the base punches on through...
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Old September 16, 2011, 10:09 AM   #24
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You know, all this talk about ballistic tips, partitions, etc. makes me think back a few years when all these super deer killers weren’t available. I killed just as many deer with old cup and core bullets as I do now...... Damn if I don’t believe I’ve succumb to high power advertising..... I think that when my supply of these high priced deer killers runs out I’ll go back to something like Sierra or Cor-Lokt. I don’t remember any problems with them and the deer will never know the difference.
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Old September 16, 2011, 12:43 PM   #25
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On light game, Partitions will punch right through. If you don't hit any heavy bones, they really punch right through. If you place the shot correctly, it's still fatal; but generally won't be a "DRT" finale.

Ballistic Tips, on the other hand, are wicked, nasty, explosive little buggers. A poorly placed shot will result in massive wounds, terrible meat loss, and may let the animal escape to die painfully. A properly placed shot, however, often results in the coveted "DRT".



But... I have come to really appreciate the Remington Core-Lokt for light game. It expands nicely, but can still provide deep penetration. Premium bullets can easily be argued to be a waste of money for light game (White tail, Black tail, antelope, etc).
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