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Old September 6, 2011, 06:03 PM   #1
C0untZer0
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Talk of reintroducing IL carry law w/Chicago exclusion

State Senator Sue Rezin is quoted as saying:

Quote:
one plan being considered is exempting the Chicago area, or perhaps Cook County, entirely from any concealed carry legislation. This might be our best shot as seeing such a bill passed

http://mywebtimes.com/archives/ottaw....php?id=439699

State Rep. Frank Mautino, D-Spring Valley, agreed.

Quote:
I also think the best thing we could do is not make the new law stronger than existing home rule city ordinances," he said. "Any concealed carry law would be easier to pass that way. I believe that might very well happen.
I don't like these compromises on two counts.

First of all it seem like we're throwing Chicago gunowners to the wolves. I don't like the idea of obtaining my RTC by sacrificing the gun owners in Chicago.

Second, if the home rule isn't overturned, every carring citizen in Illinois is going to have to run a gerry-mandered gauntlet of non-carry cities eveytime they travel.

In Villa Park - I'm OK to carry, but in Oak Park a few miles down the road - suddenly I'm not?

What about riding the train - where I would most want to carry... during part of my trip I'm fine and then for 5 minutes I'm in violation of the law and could go to jail for carrying, then 5 minutes later I'm OK again?
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Old September 6, 2011, 06:08 PM   #2
maestro pistolero
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I don't like it either, but it instantly creates firm ground for a challenge for Chicago residents.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:45 PM   #3
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The NRA isn't behind the current may issue bill for good reason. We don't need it. Going may issue without preemption is a bad idea.
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Old September 6, 2011, 09:00 PM   #4
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This sounds selfish but I am all for excluding the city of Chicago if it gives the rest of the state CCW, because without clear legal definitions on the limitations a city may put on CCW I am sure for decades to come any CCW in Chicago proper would be a joke. Riddled with unreasonable restrictions, costs, hurdles and police harassment. Without clear legal intervention from the SCOTUS on this matter, one way or the other Chicago residents will not be receiving full second amendment rights anytime soon. Basically, unless the SCOTUS weights in CCW in Chicago is a moot point, because even if it did exist you wouldn't want to do it, or couldn't do it.


In regards to Cook county, exempting the whole of cook county (besides the City of Chicago) would be throwing a lot of gun enthusiasts, myself included right under the bus. Cook county is a LOT more than the city of Chicago, many places are pro gun and even have pro gun representatives in the state and national house of reps. While Cook County has its rotten apples like Morton Grove and Winnetka it also has many areas that are far more reasonable.

#2 reason, I honestly feel the current (non Chicago) Cook County leadership is far more reasonable and is not looking for a legal fight they cannot win and for that matter cannot afford to fight in the courts. After finally ridding ourselves of the "Todd'ler, Cook county just might see some positive change.


In a perfect world we would end up with better than Florida or Utah style CCW here in Illinois but unfortunately Illinois is far from perfect.

Last edited by Patriot86; September 6, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old September 6, 2011, 10:10 PM   #5
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We are waiting for a judgement on two different cases vs Illinois. Moore and Shepard. Now is not a good time to be bringing up taking out preemption or going may issue.

As much as I hate Chicago I'd love for them to be part of the win.

Also don't forget many of the wuss reps from the Chicago area don't want carry for anyone anywhere.
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Old September 7, 2011, 01:24 AM   #6
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Even though I live and want it in Chicago, I would support a state wide law that excludes Chicago. It would be a step in the right direction and could pave the way for an eventual but tightly restricted concealed carry for the City and Cook County.
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Old September 7, 2011, 05:08 AM   #7
ming
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It would be very unlikely for such legislation to pass in the Illinois House. The anti's have little reason to support it and it may lose the support of some who voted in favor of CCW on the last go around and who feel that constitutional rights are for all citizens without exclusion. It is also unlikely that the governor would support such a measure. His opposition to CCW in Illinois is well known. IMO, Illinois will get CCW only via judicial remedies.
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Old September 7, 2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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^ I think it can be done via legislation, but it will have to be with a new Governor.

I think it's possible to get a pro-gun governor, just because the state is broke and any party is preferred to the party in office right now.

Illinois credit rating is like one of the bottom ten. If I remember right, we're just slightly ahead of California with our horrible credit rating.

The courts won't outline the laws, rules and regulations for carry in Illinois - best case scenario they'll just say that the current law is unconstitutional. That may prompt lawmakers to craft a decent carry law, it may take the wind out of the anti-gunner's sails and they'll just concede that some kind of carry law is inevitable. It looks like judicial remedies will happen before we vote in the gubernatorial race.

I don't like the proposal Sue Rezin is hinting at. A patchwork quilt of carry/can't carry areas in Illinois is a recipie for disaster. I'm afraid of it actually... it sounds like a way to land in jail if you're not completely aware f what town you're in and their laws governing carrying.
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Old September 7, 2011, 12:03 PM   #9
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The only thing the pro-gun community in Illinois may have going for it is as stated above, the state is out of cash. Here in cook county it seems the new crop of county commissioner types are less apt to fight lawsuits they know they will lose and more apt to craft resolutions and avoid a length and expensive legal fight.
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Old September 7, 2011, 12:44 PM   #10
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Just left messages for Mautino, ROth, and Reizen saying any kind of bill or law that excludes Cook County or Chicago, or any area for that matter, is just bad news.
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Old September 7, 2011, 01:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot86
The only thing the pro-gun community in Illinois may have going for it is as stated above, the state is out of cash. Here in cook county it seems the new crop of county commissioner types are less apt to fight lawsuits they know they will lose and more apt to craft resolutions and avoid a length and expensive legal fight.
I hope it works out that way in Illinois. It didn't in Ohio.

The decision not to press a losing case requires good judgment. Impoverished governments are often run by people who have demonstrated poor judgment.
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Old September 7, 2011, 10:37 PM   #12
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I don't like Chicago, or any form of government that comes from the area. That said, they shouldn't be excluded when CC comes to Illinois. I think it's a bad idea to exclude anyone. It would/could open up a can of worms worse then what we already have, as C0unterzer0 has pointed out.

It should be all or nothing. Even if we have to wait for SCOTUS to give us the all, or at least the legal grounds for such.
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Old September 8, 2011, 07:52 AM   #13
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Home rule

I see some room for compromise: so long as ONLY the corporate limits of th city of Chicago is exempt from home rule preemption I could live with that. Sadly it is really Chicago where law abiding citizens need ccw the most! So while I could live with a ccw law that excludes Chicago I would hate to see Illinoisans anywhere excluded. Chicago needs to bite the bullet and bow to the inevitable. Even anti gun politicians value armed protection, but apparently only if the government pays for it and they don't need to deal with the smell of Hoppe's on their hands: "sure, I need protection even after I'm out of office, but how about if the government springs for tens of thousands of dollars to pay an armed bodyguard instead of having me pay $400 for a gun and a few hundred more for instruction? That way I never have to touch the devil."
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Old September 12, 2011, 04:34 AM   #14
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Yeah, I'm not really agreeing with these compromises at all as I live in Chicago in a pretty crime-ridden neighborhood myself. I'd be happy to see any CCW law of any kind pass here, but I really think the rest of the state may be able to out-vote the bastards. Since Heller, gun sales have SKYROCKETED here and I'm seeing great deals on stuff all the time. They literally can't keep them on the shelves.

BTW, I was at Cobra Lounge the other night drinking with my colleague and I know a bunch of people that work there. If you know this place, you know it's not a nice neighborhood. While I'm smoking a cigarette, a guy gets robbed at gunpoint in the alley. Nice. Real nice. Took the blue boys 50... READ: FIFTY minutes to show up. When my house was robbed, they didn't send anyone for about two hours. Overextended? Or just don't care?

Also, three fine gentleman have been prowling my neighborhood for the past few months robbing people at gunpoint. Oh, and just the other day a girl was raped right down the street from my bandmates' apartment where we practice.

Man, I love this city, but the people can really suck!
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Old September 13, 2011, 08:38 AM   #15
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I don't think anyone that is close to the top and fighting for CC in Illinois wants it to pass without Chicago. If you are not a member of the Illinois Carry forum I highly recommend joining and donating money & time to the cause. I think CC in IL is a lot closer than most of us think, and I don’t think it will get passed without Chicago. Most of the recent victories we have had in regards to gun rights, have come because of Chicago residents. I think it will get passed through in the courts.
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Old September 13, 2011, 09:23 AM   #16
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To quote Gen. Honore these folks in the Ill legislature are stuck on stupid.
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Old September 13, 2011, 12:44 PM   #17
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Do it right or don't do it at all. The weasel face is deliberately excluding the population that needs it the most to curry favor with voters by showing he is progun and not ticking off the mob...er. I mean party bosses of Cook County and Chicago.

If that simple minded moral moron had any idea how many otherwise law abiding citizens in Chicago carry now for all the right reasons he would need to double up on his Depends. I don't live there anymore but I still want to see it done right.
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Old September 15, 2011, 01:31 PM   #18
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I'll look into joining the Illinois Carry Forum and see what I can do. I know my alderman well - not that I have any political influence, but I have been able to get him to do things for me.
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Old September 28, 2011, 08:50 PM   #19
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The city/county/state are all short of cash. A high ccw annual fee may change the minds of offiicials and let it pass. I live in the county but would pay the fee if still working in the city on a daily basis.
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Old September 29, 2011, 09:29 AM   #20
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Well the proposal that this thread references is different from HB148 which is probably coming up for a vote again in October.

If 148 passes, it overides gun legislation that any municipalities may have - including Chicago. If 148 passes it is a must issue law that makes the issuance of permits a matter of law - not a decision to be made by local sherrif's. HB148 also allows for both open carry and concealed carry.

It was very very close to passage last time. The fact that it was so close, and the fact that 47 or so other states have carry laws now (I'm shakey on the details of New Jersey and California), may create a general feeling of resignation and inevitability in some legislators.

The financial mess that Illinois is in right now certainly bodes well for passing this legislation in a number of ways - not least of which is the generation of income.

There are hundreds of thousands of Illinois citizens, who having been deprived of the RKBA for so long, are willing to pay a pretty steep fee ($100.00), for the ability to do so now.

http://www.chicagodefender.com/artic...arry-vote.html

So far there's no talk about throewing out the homerule over-ride and the shall issue provision.
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Old September 29, 2011, 12:38 PM   #21
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Call your local represenatives, senators and everyone with some clout you know! Hopefully we can get HB148 through and intact.
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Old September 29, 2011, 12:49 PM   #22
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We probably should close this thread.

The main idea now is to make HB148 succesful, and it can be discussed on the Illinois Carry thread.
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