The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 6, 2011, 11:25 AM   #1
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
Advice on protection against crocs, please

Not entirely a hunting issue, but...

Received the link below by SMS today, from an associate who lives on a plantation in the same part of that country.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/53601/g...usan-sur-creek

She owns a .22lr semi-auto rifle, a 12-gauge double, and regularly carries a .357 revolver, but she is thinking she might be a little under gunned if any thing like this creature happened upon her.

I'm curious, too---exactly where do you shoot some thing like this when it's coming straight at you in high grass or waist-deep water? Looks as if it would present a very small frontal area in attack mode, and I'm thinking that bullets might not travel straight in because of its very streamlined shape.

So does the lady need an equipment upgrade? How should she deal with a possible attack, seeing as there are likely to be a few more of these creatures lurking around in her area of operation? If the stuff I've been reading up on is correct, these crocs can travel up to a kilometer inland in search of suitable animals to prey upon. Nasty thought when you're out walking the dogs in the evening...
rauke is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 11:47 AM   #2
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
you need to walk a dog that runs slower than you........

I probably shouldnt be answering this thread as I have no experience outside of TV
sorry
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 11:59 AM   #3
highvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2010
Location: Powhatan VA
Posts: 633
I don't think hitting with precision in that scenario is going to work, shoot to hit, and shoot often while moving away rapidly!!!!
__________________
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain

"I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush
highvel is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 01:47 PM   #4
bswiv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2006
Location: NE FL.......
Posts: 1,081
Makes me want to fly all my stuff down there and go crock hunting. Looks like a way more dangerious beast than any gator I've ever caught.
bswiv is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 01:59 PM   #5
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
Hi, bswiv!

Was just looking through your latest thread.

Sounds like you're the man as far as crocs go.

So if you're not actually hunting them, what does it take to defend against them?

You reckon a 12-gauge with slugs would do?
rauke is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 02:51 PM   #6
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,630
That is one big animal.


imho the default weapon for creatures of monstrous size is a four bore double.




No girl should be without one
Buzzcook is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 03:49 PM   #7
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
Well since that is a world record and will be placed in a farm, I doubt if he will be hungry enough to attack a human again.

A 12 ga with slugs will tear almost any animal alive up. or a crocidile dundee knife......
markj is offline  
Old September 6, 2011, 06:56 PM   #8
bswiv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2006
Location: NE FL.......
Posts: 1,081
Take a close look at the first picture. In it you can plainly see stuck only into the skin of the gator's skull a .38 Spl. +P.

The next picture is that same slug pried off the skull.

Now go back and look at the first picture. If you look hard you can see a couple of other holes in the gator just behind the skull.

Just behind the skull is where the bangstick should have hit the first time......because a +P .38 Spl will not crack the skull of a almost 11 foot gator.

And from experence I can tell you that a .357 Mag. will usually not do it either. Our goal is always to place the bangstick strike in such a way that it will hit the base of the spine/skull joint. This will kill them quickly and humainly. Sadly it is not always done the way we'd like the first time.

My point is that the skulls of gators......and I would expect of crocodiles to a ever greater extent as they get larger......are very tough to penetrate. A glancing blow will do nothing unless delivered by a serious round. And it's a far better bet if that round is firing a solid of some sort.....not soft lead.

This is not to say a 12 ga with a slug would not under almost all situations prove very useful......just that maybe a rifle round with a jacketed solid would be better?


bswiv is offline  
Old September 7, 2011, 03:09 AM   #9
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
Thanks, bswiv!

That was very enlightening.

I sort of figured they would be reasonably bullet proof, especially from frontal angles.

So now I'm really worried. Would be nice if my friend owned a semi-auto or pump 12, but an over-under? 2 slugs on tap, then what? And that wouldn't be as handy to carry as a .357, either.

Will probably advise her to purchase/borrow an AK and carry it on sling during her jaunts...not elegant, but that weapon seems fairly common over there. That should do the trick...
rauke is offline  
Old September 7, 2011, 09:38 AM   #10
chewie146
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2010
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 853
Can she legally get ahold of an AK over there? I'd look at dangerous game rounds. I would thing even a hot .45-70 solid would penetrate. Then again, I have no experience with crocs. That's just an insane size. I'd probably move.
chewie146 is offline  
Old September 7, 2011, 01:40 PM   #11
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
Hi, chewie146

Fortunately, they've relaxed the laws over there a bit, and you can get an AK or an AR now under special conditions.

I seriously doubt if any one uses regular big-game calibers in the area, the only ones with .30-06 would probably be the militia, in M14s or Garands. Last time I was there and she needed .357 magnum we had to drive 150 kilometers to get it.

I don't she'll ever move---not with 200+ workers and a square kilometer or so of property (some of it bordering a marsh, unfortunately).
rauke is offline  
Old September 8, 2011, 03:56 AM   #12
phil mcwilliam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Posts: 573
A couple of fishing guides that I used when fishing for Barramundi in the Top End of Australia carried revolvers in .357 magnum for defense against crocs. This was on the Mary River in the Northern Territory. The Mary River has supposedly the highest concentration of saltwater crocs in Australia. We spotted 50 plus crocs per day, with plenty over 15 foot in length.
The shotgun your friend has, loaded with slugs , would be even better than the .357 magnum, but for practical reasons a revolver is more suited to carry on frequent jaunts in the tropics.
My father was a professional croc shooter in the early 1950's in New Guinea & .303 was the caliber of choice back then. Pro shooters shot for the brain as the crocs were shot for their skins, under spotlights from canoes. I suppose a brain shot would be the best defense shot , but if you were taken by a big croc when wading in waist deep water I doubt you would even get a shot off. Fact is, most people living in crocodile infested areas don't carry firearms for protection, they just avoid wading in the swamps.
phil mcwilliam is offline  
Old September 8, 2011, 11:20 AM   #13
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,870
Gator (and Croc) prevention:
Stay aware.
Stay away.

In case of emergency, run faster than the person next to you.

Crocodiles and alligators have a circulatory system that does not provide much stamina for running. Stay out of the water, and they aren't much of a threat. --There's a reason these animals ambush at the water's edge, rather than even a few feet from the water. On land, they lose their advantage.


You're better off running, than trying to shoot the them.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 8, 2011, 12:44 PM   #14
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
Hi, phil mcwilliam! Hi, FrankenMauser!

Sorry for the late reply

Had to do some research before getting back to you.

Looks like running may just work!

The land speed record for a croc appears to be 11 mph; a human in flight can do 15 to 17 mph. Haven't been able to find any endurance parameters, though...

Guess it should be fine if you don't stumble!
rauke is offline  
Old September 8, 2011, 03:00 PM   #15
JACK308
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2011
Posts: 377
dont run away in a straight line ZIG ZAG alot they cant turn to good - as for the gun a .44 mag with 240 hard cast should put a hurting on it.
JACK308 is offline  
Old September 8, 2011, 10:32 PM   #16
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 1,945
You don't even need a firearm at all ! Just cut yourself a stick, no longer than one foot, and sharpen both ends. Grasp your gator stick firmly near the middle, and insert at least to mid-forearm depth in the gator's mouth. Insert said stick, vertically, and as nearly perpendicular to the general jawlines as you can, and you will be out of danger, as long as you avoid it's tail. Do not try and adjust your stick placement, gators are faster than you think. If your placement is faulty, insert a second stick, with your other, remaining hand, if necessary.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:19 AM   #17
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
They move so fast having a gun is mute issue. If they get you they get you.
Best defense is to stay away from waters edge.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:12 AM   #18
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Kili, you're a true optimist. And, FWIW, I have seen large gators swap ends in an eyeblink. I really doubt that a person could keep from being hit by the tail.

Running? All well and good if the vegetation permits it. And if there is time to actually turn and begin the run before Mr. Croc clamps on.

If a person must be near the water's edge where large gators or crocs are known to be, that person must be alert and observant--and prepared to shoot at a moment's notice. Preferably with the most potent cartridge with which the user can reliably get hits.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:47 AM   #19
JACK308
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2011
Posts: 377
I seen on tv that if it get you use your thumbs to gauge the EYES!
JACK308 is offline  
Old September 9, 2011, 10:46 AM   #20
rauke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 197
More bad news...

Once a reasonably-sized croc clamps down on, you've had it. It will simply drag you into the water and drown you, assuming that it doesn't instantly kill you.

If what I've read is correct, a crocodile has the most powerful bite of any animal on the planet, exerting pressure in the neighborhood of 5,000 pounds per square inch. Think land shark. And Art Eatman is right---if the jaws don't get you, the tail will. It'll easily break your back or your legs.

This would suggest that any business at all by the water's edge should be conducted in broad daylight, never after dark. Better to bring an armed associate or two to keep a sharp lookout while you do what it is you have to do. Stay out of the water. And no more moonlight jaunts with the dogs...(sigh).
rauke is offline  
Old September 10, 2011, 09:46 PM   #21
Shotgun693
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 959
I'm not Politically Correct. If there's an animal of any kind around that poses a real threat to me then I'm gonna kill it before it ever gets a change to kill me. I'm glad the T-Rex are all extinct.
Shotgun693 is offline  
Old September 11, 2011, 12:10 AM   #22
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,630
Quote:
If there's an animal of any kind around that poses a real threat to me then I'm gonna kill it before it ever gets a change to kill me.
So that explains the falling polar bear population. What deadly animal are you going after next, Portuguese man of war?
Buzzcook is offline  
Old September 11, 2011, 09:23 PM   #23
FairWarning
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 815
I wouldn't spend any time in an area with creatures like that. If I did, I'd be thinking .375 H&H.
__________________
Mauser Werke, Schmidt-Rubin, Remington, Colt, H&K, Weatherby, Browning, Ruger, Marlin, Mossberg, Saiga, S&W, Sig Sauer....a few friends of mine
FairWarning is offline  
Old September 11, 2011, 11:04 PM   #24
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
No matter what shoulder fired weapon (short of a Carl Gustav) you shoot, you can't hit a fully grown reptile like that one just any old where and expect to stop it. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but if you fail...

Far as I'm concerned, anything not crew served is undergunned for a dinosaur like that one. And no, in fact I don't have a sense of adventure.

lpl
===

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRiNMBGb9pY
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old September 12, 2011, 07:16 AM   #25
customaquatics
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2011
Location: illinois
Posts: 678
well swamp people use just a 22 lr.
__________________
23 year old NRA member AKaholic #158907 , 1942 Ex-Sniper Izzy Mosin Nagant, 1970's Marlin 30-30, Remington 870 tatical, Charter Arms The Pink Lady 38 Special.
customaquatics is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13867 seconds with 7 queries