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Old September 2, 2011, 01:22 PM   #26
tyme
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If I were ever asked for a reciept for any of my firearms by a cop, my reply would probably be along the lines of "Officer, I've owned this gun for quite some time now. If I still have the reciept, it's at home. Is there a problem?"
So then if the police come up with evidence that contradicts your statement, and the FFL lost the 4473, and you don't have it or the receipt either, now what? You've landed yourself in hot water because you didn't take the 5th.

James Duane's Don't Talk to the Police lecture - http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02514885833865

Admittedly such scenarios are not likely, but you're gambling with your freedom. The downside is a cross, frustrated cop, who you are likely to never see again. Why say anything at all other than silence, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" when needed, and possibly ask if you're free to go or under arrest if the cop drags out the encounter?
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Old September 2, 2011, 03:50 PM   #27
Don P
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I'll ask the members here, other than the day you make the purchase of a firearm who carries the sales receipt for the firearm they use for CC or for a trip to the range? My question (politely) would be do you carry a receipt for your duty weapon?
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Old September 2, 2011, 04:22 PM   #28
Wag
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Holy crap. If I carried my gun receipt everywhere I go, it would be falling apart by now. Not to mention, do they expect you to do an inventory of your personal possessions and carry with you the ones you need.

Let's see.

Shirt
Pants
Belt
Shoes
Socks.
Undies
T-shirt
IBW holster
Pistol
Silver chain
Watch
Wedding Ring
Hair tie
Contacts or glasses
Cell phone
Wallet
Cash (use ATM receipt to prove it's yours)
Pocket knife
Car Keys

Betcha anything I've forgotten something. Not to mention the myriad incidental crap in my car.

What if they decide to knock on the front door of your house and demand receipts for everything inside?

Totally asinine.

--Wag--
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Old September 2, 2011, 04:49 PM   #29
Glenn Dee
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Zukiphile..

Nope... I never cared one way or another what a persons attitude was. Any and all interactions for business were just that. Having worked in NYC I think most attitudes were negative at the start of the interaction. Often positive when it was over. I learned the job from old timers who taught me... None of these people are your friends... some are you sworn enemy. Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference.

I interact with people to do a job. Not to influence people and make friends when the job is over... our interaction is over. I always treated everyone with respect, and honesty. I know anything they feel has little or nothing to do with the person I am, but maybe with the weird hat I wear. And that comes off after my tour.

As I said before Police Officers have some discretion while performing their job. A persons general attitude and demeanor will usually have some effect there. I always allow for a person to react to be treated fairly, and honestly and maybe change gears and then effect my use of discretion.

A police Officer must maintain an open mind, and shelf any prejudices, and preconcieved notions while performing his duties. It's never personal.

I shall give two examples.
1) My partner and I answered a domestic. Payday night domestic. Alcohol involved domestic. Violence must arrest domestic signal 10-52. As it turns out the dusband was tipsy, and the wife intox... but he knotted her noggin and had to go. He was big, and mean, and nasty... but apologetic to us. As a pain in the a55 as he was... I offered to him that if he behaved I wouldnt cuff him in front of his children... but we could walk out like we were all friends going for beers. His attitude got him that bit of discretion.

2) Some years later working as a detective I caught a serious stabbing with the victim was likely to die. I went to the victims family for information, and someone to sign a complaint on his behalf. I found his younger sister. A woman with a terrible attitude. She made my entire investigation difficult with all those "street rules", and talking about her other brothers getting revenge, and how her family never got along with the perps family. The victim as it turns out didnt die, I made the arrest, and the sister eventually warmed up to me. 26 years later were still married and have three wonderful children.

So in sum and substance... Attitude is just that atitude... and is not all that important in the big picture. But an Officer must keep an open mind to see the big picture...

Glenn D.
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Old September 2, 2011, 06:35 PM   #30
Patriot86
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This reminds me of a setup one of those LEOS gone wild cases, like that small town in Texas where they confiscated anything and everything they could of value if you couldn't shown ownership.
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Old September 2, 2011, 08:53 PM   #31
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Up until a year ago I was helpful and answered questions from LEO truthfully and completely. NO MORE.

Now I will provide only that information which is required. DL, CCW, registration, proof of Insurance.

Do you have any weapons in your vehicle, yes.
May I search your vehicle. No
Do you know anything about this. I do not chose to interview with you at this time. I will have my attorney contact you and arrainge an interview if you deem it necessary.

Anything you say can be twisted to use against you.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:11 PM   #32
sserdlihc
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Sure he can ask, I'm just going to politely say "officer, I do not have that receipt in my possession at this time"

Operative word is POLITELY.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:23 PM   #33
wally626
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If the officer was looking for stolen merchandise and saw a clearly new item in your car matching the description of stolen goods they might ask for a receipt, but for anything not brand new it seems to be a weird question to ask.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:37 PM   #34
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"y'ever pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?"
Now I'm gonna bust your *** for those three bags, and I'm gonna nail you for picking your feet in Poughkeepsie

I've often thought about receipts.

And then I think about my 03 bound book and the song and dance I've had to go through getting checked out when I buy from a shop, and I stop thinking about them.

Last edited by Chris_B; September 2, 2011 at 09:43 PM.
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Old September 2, 2011, 10:07 PM   #35
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Can I see your receipt?
"No, you cannot."
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Old September 2, 2011, 10:38 PM   #36
armoredman
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The few times I have been pulled over armed, I have never been asked to disarm, much less surrender a reciept! The only time I was disarmed I was asked what type of ammo I preferred by the officer, and that was when my debit card came back, (wrongfully, of course), as stolen.
I would probably look at the officer in shock if they asked me a question that odd. Yes, I have several, not all, and in one case the shop that sold me one is out of business, with the 4473 buried at ATF in Washington!
I would probably ask why he wanted to know.
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Old September 3, 2011, 12:34 AM   #37
Mr. James
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Glenn Dee,

That's a great story (the mathematical odds of a successful marriage coming from such an encounter only indicate there is a God ). But your description of your comportment matches my own experience on the receiving end of police attention. I've misbehaved in the past, often, but not seriously. With one or two glaring exceptions, the officers, from Tenafly, New Jersey, to Seattle, Washington, performed exactly as you described. One incident involved firearms and was rather tense, yet ended with us sent on our way.

"Treat them all the same and it'll be easy to tell the difference." That's exactly how I was treated, even when I was being cuffed and stuffed. The officers realized pretty quickly that I was a screw-up, a drunk, a true-believer, or some combination of the three, but wasn't a hostile.
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Old September 3, 2011, 02:12 PM   #38
44 AMP
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Can I see a reciept for your gun?

only if you show me your Police Academy diploma first! You got it on you?

Probably shouldn't say it, but would sure be thinking it.

On the other hand, I haven't been stopped this century, and only once or twice in the 20 years before that.

They might be looking for a gun that matches yours, but its a very oddly phrased request, to my way of thinking.

I don't think any cop would ask that unless he had something specific in mind. Seeing how you react to an off the wall, foolish question might be all he has in mind.

I'd be polite, and possibly ask him if he realizes how foolish that question makes him sound. But then again, I don't live in your area.
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Old September 3, 2011, 03:21 PM   #39
Kreyzhorse
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Are you obligated to show a "receipt" ?
No, no, no and no.
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Old September 3, 2011, 03:25 PM   #40
zxcvbob
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I don't think any cop would ask that unless he had something specific in mind.
Like he already has your gun after having disarmed you, and he's looking for an excuse to keep it. (there are lots of stories of that happening in Louisiana back in the bad old days)
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Old September 3, 2011, 04:43 PM   #41
TheNocturnus
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For proof of ownership and insurance reasons I take a photo of my guns next to a tattoo on my arm. It proves it has been in my possession before and that it belongs to me. I keep a copy on my computer, and on a flash drive I always keep on me.
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Old September 3, 2011, 06:42 PM   #42
danez71
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I'd say that I might still have the receipt and then I'd ask to see his receipt for his gun.


I have a BIL that an L.A. LEO and know other officers too. I have the upmost respect for them but I'm not a pinata either.


I once had an officer ask me "do you have a problem understanding english?" when I asked him to repeat what he said. With the traffic noise I couldnt understand him.

Without bring race into it... I speak perfect american and neither of us had a problem hearing each other except for when traffic went by.

He was just being a tool.

My reply to him was .... I cant hear you because of the traffic noise.. if we can go to that parking lot you'll be safer from being hit and I'll be able to hear you better.... OR ... we can just call for a supervisor and have him translate for us.

He didnt say much after that and was a little nicer. I think he realized.

Yes, I got the ticket.
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Old September 3, 2011, 07:10 PM   #43
Hardcase
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I think that some of you guys may be making more out of this than it deserves. I know a couple of cops and I asked them about this and they said what I thought - the officer was just looking for an answer. He didn't care if the OP had a receipt or not...what he was listening for was some sort of evasive answer. It's just an investigative tool, that's all. It's the sort of question that rattles a guy who, say, has stolen that handgun.
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Old September 3, 2011, 08:38 PM   #44
shortwave
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Very politely and sincerely respond as if you think he likes your gun...

..."No sir, I don't have the receipt with me....it's not for sale anyway. But if you really like it, they have them at a good price at(insert fav. LGS) for a really good price and I think they give LE discounts. I've had good luck with it as its been very reliable,accurate and shoots anything I feed it, the recoil etc. etc. ....

He'll stop you eventually with the cars zipping past getting closer and closer.


This question to be asked by an LEO would be ridiculous unless the LEO, after talking to the person being questioned, felt that said person:

a. has acquired the gun illegally

b. is stupid and 'windy' enough to incriminate themselves if they did acquire it illegally.
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Old September 3, 2011, 08:48 PM   #45
Hardcase
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b. is stupid and 'windy' enough to incriminate themselves if they did acquire it illegally.
According to my buddies, that's exactly what happens. Lots of nervous talk until they talk themselves into a corner.

Kind of in that vein, I got pulled over for something or other and couldn't find my proof of insurance. The officer took what I had and while he was back in his car, I went through the glove boxes and consoles, but couldn't find it. I guess he was watching me through the back window because when he came back, he chuckled and said not to worry about it - the guys who don't have insurance tend to make up a quick story and wait, but the guys who do keep trying to find it.

The long and the short of it is that it's just behavior that the police are looking at. But I like the idea of telling him that he can get a good deal on one at the LGS!
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Old September 4, 2011, 08:29 AM   #46
Glenn Dee
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I think most posters are giving this cop way too much credit. IMO he's just a jerk, who dont have a clue what he's doing. As far as some reversed psychcology trick questions?...LOL I dont think he run's that deep. I think he was just being a jerk to the best of his ability... At best trying to manufacture a crime where there was non... So he could be the hero... On second thought... he's just a jerk.
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Old September 4, 2011, 03:22 PM   #47
zukiphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I
Interesting. So in your work, you never assessed the attitude or countenance of someone you were observing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Dee
Zukiphile..

Nope... I never cared one way or another what a persons attitude was. ***
Glenn, I think what a reader might find perplexing about your denial about observing attitudes is that the balance of your response is about how peoples' attitudes changed your response. Your anecdotes seem to support the idea that a PO may assess the attitude of a person with whom he is interacting.

It would be an extraordinary thing for him not to.
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Old September 4, 2011, 03:59 PM   #48
orangello
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I have a specific box for each firearm i purchased at a gun shop; i keep the receipt in the box. If i am going to a "range" (pasture) for some target practice, the receipt should be available. If most any LEO asked to see a receipt for one of my firearms in a traffic stop, i would assume they were looking for someone in possession of stolen firearms and show them any receipts available (don't have for BP arms).

If the LEO asking were a member of the local Sheriff's Department here, i would respond that i was not absolutely certain of the location of EACH & EVERY receipt and offer to supply them at a later date (may have fallen from container or been eaten by termites). I would also offer the name of the shop from which i purchased the firearm in question and mention that the shop should have me on record as a purchasor in their "bound book" politely and without making any sudden movements that could get me shot. That department has been, in general but certainly NOT in its entirety, untrustworthy and deserving of suspicion/mistrust for my entire life.
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Old September 4, 2011, 04:33 PM   #49
mkk41
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Although any type of firearms registration is expressly forbidden by PA law , the PA State Police have illegally maintained a so-called 'record of sale' database for handguns sold within the state , despite Supreme Court orders to dismantle it.


§ 6111.4. Registration of firearms.

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth.



If you are stopped carrying a handgun and it is not in this registry , or registered to someone else , you just might have it confiscated till you can prove ownership , and even that might not be enough. This includes guns you may have inherited , or even bought legally while the resident of another state. The PSP even freely admit , this database is 'incomplete at best'.

It could lead to a long and expensive battle with you having to get a lawyer , and I think that's their agenda. Who's gonna pay thousands of dollars to get a gun worth a few hundred back.

Last edited by mkk41; September 4, 2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old September 4, 2011, 04:34 PM   #50
mehavey
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What part of "Officer, the weapon is mine. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, there is no further need for discussion..." is so hard to wrap one's head around?

The officer can react is three ways.
Two will get his department sued.
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