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Old September 1, 2011, 04:08 PM   #1
curly45
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9mm carbine

Not falimilar with 9mm long guns. What is their range accuracy stopping power and price? Any help would be appreciated. Thinking it may be a good idea to have long gun and pistol in same cal. THANKS
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Old September 1, 2011, 04:22 PM   #2
FrosSsT
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There are 3 9mm carbines that I would recommend you to do some research about. First is the Hi Point 995 ($250-$300 bucks). Second is the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 ($300-$450) And last is the Berreta Cx4 storm chambered in 9mm ($600-$800) As for range, I would not push the 9mm cartridge past 100 yards. They are ALL fairly accurate out to that range, the stopping power will depend on the ammo you are using, (if you are using a hollow point bullet it will increase that factor)
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Old September 1, 2011, 05:12 PM   #3
SIGSHR
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Yes, it is a Good Idea to have a long gun and handgun in the same caliber. Also a lot of fun. I have the Marlin Camp Carbine in 9MM, takes the same magazines as my S&W M659.
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Old September 1, 2011, 05:29 PM   #4
rjrivero
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Pistol Caliber Carbines......

They only make sense to me if they use the same magazines as your sidearm.

I built this because I shoot Glocks. Easily the most fun gun in the safe.

This rings 6" steel plates out to 100 yards with 147gr subsonics with a Trident-9 on the end all day long.

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Old September 1, 2011, 05:32 PM   #5
chris in va
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Had a HiPoint, recommend the KelTec or Beretta.
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Old September 1, 2011, 05:34 PM   #6
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Ruger had the same idea with the PC9 but it didn't pan out. My PC9 is decently accurate and feels rugged. It shares mags with the P series handguns which I don't have (yet).

Also have an Oly Arms 9 mm AR upper. It uses modified sten mags. It's also decently accurate and easy to shoot, almost like a toy really, especially if you're used to the AR platform. Speaking of which you can get an AR upper that uses Glock mags and have a matching Glock handgun.

No experience with the other brands.
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Old September 1, 2011, 09:59 PM   #7
SVO
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Uzi B carbine. Only problem I have is it takes a while to load a 50 round magazine.
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Old September 1, 2011, 10:31 PM   #8
Datguy781
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I haven't owned others but I have owned 2 KT's and I love them both.
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Old September 1, 2011, 10:33 PM   #9
Ridge_Runner_5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrivero
*Awesome gun*
What kind of mag block do you need for that? I want to do something like that, but I'm not about to buy another lower in some weird shape designed only for Glock mags.
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Old September 1, 2011, 10:53 PM   #10
Daekar
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For information about power out of a carbine, I suggest you look @ www.ballisticsbytheinch.com
They have different cartridges chronographed out of barrels ranging from 18" to 2".
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Old September 2, 2011, 07:46 AM   #11
rjrivero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekar
What kind of mag block do you need for that? I want to do something like that, but I'm not about to buy another lower in some weird shape designed only for Glock mags.
It's a dedicated lower. No mag block. This is the Gen 1 lower from Lone Wolf Dist.
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Old September 2, 2011, 08:13 AM   #12
Jim243
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rjrivero

Did you have to get a tax stamp for that SBR.

Jim
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Old September 2, 2011, 08:32 AM   #13
rjrivero
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Originally Posted by Jim243
rjrivero

Did you have to get a tax stamp for that SBR.

Jim
Yes Jim. I am in full compliance with the National Firearms Act. It is registered with the ATF on a Form 1.
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Old September 2, 2011, 08:56 AM   #14
Skans
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Personally, I'd rather have an UZI.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:23 AM   #15
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The range of the carbine is a function of trajectory and how you zero it - so theoretically you could zero your optics to lob bullets in at a 200 meter target, - but even then things are iffy because the bullet has lost and is losing a lot of energy, and your POI would be high off you POA for almost all other practical shooting of the weapon.

A lot of 9mm carbine shooters say their weapons are good out to 110 yards and then hits start to fall off. YMMV...

Theoretically you could get some extended range from lighter +P or +P+ rounds with higher velocities and flatter trajectories.

I've coon handled the Beretta RX and I don't like it. I don't like the sights, the LOP or the pistol grip on the CX4 Storm.

I also don't see the value in AR-type 9mm carbines that run $900+
These are not HK94 carbines we're talking about. A Ruger Police 9 or a Marlin Camp 9 ran a few hundred bucks and were great carbines, the AR types are not $500 better than either the Ruger or Marlin.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:33 AM   #16
C0untZer0
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Interesting carbine / pistol

Br├╝gger & Thomet

http://www.bt-ag.ch/en/manufacturing...anchor=2110052







.
Attached Images
File Type: png tp9_5.png (89.1 KB, 452 views)
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:58 AM   #17
chack
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I had an uzi. I didn't like it at all. it was uncomfortable to shoot and actually painful to cock.

I have a sub2000 and camp 9, both use S&W mags which are cheap and used by alot of other semiauto pistols.

I like the camp9's ability to take a folding stock and a red dot.

If Marlin brought back the camp 9 they'd sell alot of them I'm sure.

Hi point's biggest problem is the low cap mags. If they designed it to use S&W or glock mags they'd be able to charge $100 more for it.
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Old September 2, 2011, 09:59 AM   #18
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You asked about "stopping power",


If anyone can even define stopping power - it would be more a function of the round being used, although with increased barrel lengths of carbine you can see differences of around 200- 230fps in bullet velocity between something like a 16.5" barrel and a 3" barrell - it varies widely with caliber, bullet weight and loadings.

I'll just translate "stopping power" into penetration and expansion in the case of JHPs.

The same 9mm JHP round fired from a carbine should produce higher velocities. The rule of thumb is that you generally see an increas of 20fps for every 1" of increased barrel lenth. The increased velocity results in slightly deeper penetration - not as much as one might think, usually only in the .5 to .75" range and slightly more expansion. Some rounds showed 2" more penetration. IIRC the difference in expansion was also minimal like .03" so if a round expanded to .60 out of a pistol in plain ordinance gelatin - it might expand to .63 or .64 out of a carbine. Some JHP are designed with 4" to 6" barrels in mind and fragment when they hit gelatin (or flesh) 210 - 230fps faster than they were designed to...

There were significant differences in temporary stretch cavities - if you put a lot of credence into that.

Last edited by C0untZer0; September 2, 2011 at 10:17 AM.
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Old September 2, 2011, 10:31 AM   #19
tulsamal
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I'm in the AR-15 camp on this.

I also used a Lone Wolf lower so I could use Glock mags. Went with a 9" barrel. Mine is a pistol right now until I get around to filling out all the paperwork to turn it into a SBR. The biggest difference with mine is that I really love .357 SIG and shoot it a lot. So that's what mine uses. Still .355" bullets but your range is well past 100 yards. I can settle down and hit man sized targets every time with my Glock 35 and 357 SIG barrel so the carbine with better sights and longer barrel goes out further.

Gregg
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Old September 2, 2011, 11:09 AM   #20
rjrivero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0untZer0
I also don't see the value in AR-type 9mm carbines that run $900+
These are not HK94 carbines we're talking about. A Ruger Police 9 or a Marlin Camp 9 ran a few hundred bucks and were great carbines, the AR types are not $500 better than either the Ruger or Marlin.
From a functional standpoint, you are 100% correct. Having a Marlin Camp Rifle as well, they are pretty similar in all ballistic aspects.

However, I find that spending more trigger time on an AR-Variant helps muscle memory. When shooting the 9mm and switching to 5.56 or what have you, the more familiar you are with the controls, feel etc, the faster you will be. Does it matter? To me it does. Being able to shoot an AR type platform on indoor ranges that don't allow rifle calibers in the off season help to keep me shooting more accurately when the multigun season comes about.
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Old September 2, 2011, 02:34 PM   #21
tulsamal
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And there is more to an AR rifle/pistol than just that one example. As rjrivero said, you can then transfer your skills and muscle memory to all of them. Does anybody really have a 9mm AR and not have other ones as well?

In my case, I like to setup all my AR's the same. So once I built the 357 SIG, I upgraded it to my "standard." Same pistol grip, same SSA trigger, same sling mounts, same selector lever, etc, etc. So I end up with a rifle that really does feel and handle just the same as my "more serious" AR's. With a match trigger that just dropped right in. And my large store of spare parts can be used with any of them. I'll grant you... it can get expensive. I've got more than one AR that ended up costing me more in aftermarket parts than the base rifle did. Brownell's loves me!

Gregg
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Old September 2, 2011, 03:28 PM   #22
Clone
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Stopping power has to do with the shooter not the weapon used.

At carbine length is where the 9mm really shines, if you reload. With the right powder you can push a 115gr pill around 1700 to 1800 fps.

As far as which carbine to get, that's subjective. Everyone is bias to which ever they currently own. They are all fine. Go to a few local shops and look/play with as many as you can find and see what best fits your needs/wallet/ego.
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Old September 2, 2011, 03:38 PM   #23
C0untZer0
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I guess you could build a case for having an AR-type shotgun too...

Same MOA for rifle/shotgun/carbine
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Old September 2, 2011, 03:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0untZer0 View Post
I guess you could build a case for having an AR-type shotgun too...

Same MOA for rifle/shotgun/carbine
Hence the MKA 1919. Can't wait to get one. http://centerfiresystems.com/mka-1919.aspx
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