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Old September 2, 2011, 04:03 AM   #1
ClydeFrog
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CNN news item about Pima County AZ GOP Glock pistol raffle...

CNN, www.CNN.com ran a TV spot & interview about the GOP(Grand Old Party) using a NIB Glock model 23 .40 pistol as a fund raiser/prize.
CNN's beef was that a Glock 9x19mm(a 19 compact model) was used by the nutjob wacko to shoot & kill several people at a AZ political event.
This is where US Rep Giffords was nearly killed with a massive head wound.
A Pima County GOP rep gave a hue & cry over the incident but in fairness, I agree with the CNN reporters.
It is a bit tacky to raffle off a handgun from the exact same company that produced the firearm that murdered several citizens from your own community.

A Remington 870 12ga shotgun, a Ruger Mini-30 rifle or a S&W .44 DA revolver could have been replaced by the GOP group in AZ.
I'm a 2A supporter, NRA member & US armed forces veteran but even I'd say the GOP leadership in Pima County "screwed the pooch" .

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Old September 2, 2011, 08:17 AM   #2
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This would have been a losing proposition with the anti-gunners no matter what.

If they didn't complain about the brand being the same - they would have cried foul that the gun shot "the same type of bullet" that injured Giffords, if it wasn't one thing - it'd be another.

Even different brand, different caliber, shotgun instead of pistol - as a last resort, they'd complain that the gun was the same color as the one used to shoot Giffords.
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Old September 2, 2011, 11:55 AM   #3
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I don't know...it does appear to be a catch 22. Like Clyde, I think a shotgun, specifically a sporting one, might have been a better choice. Maybe a nice Remington 700 in 30-06, something non-duty, tactical, but rather nice looking and sporting. Definitely not a handgun, and most definitely not a GLock or similar poly duty weapon. A revolver, maybe.


This way you are still supporting gun rights by offering up a gun of some sort, but you are doing it in a more tasteful way. IMHO, I'd rather win a nice Stoeger O/U then a Glock anyway. And they aren't much different in price.
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Old September 2, 2011, 12:24 PM   #4
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I'm with C0untZer0. Screw CNN and all the other freedom-hating bolshie news outlets out there. They would have howled no matter the choice of firearm. The Pima Co. GOP shouldn't censor its own behavior because of the feared negative reaction of its avowed enemies. They're going to react negatively no matter what the GOP does. In fact, the more stridently the bolshies shriek, the more headway we're making.
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Old September 2, 2011, 12:26 PM   #5
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It is kind of weird...the same model gun.

I almost want to say it could have been an innocent mistake, but maybe they're thinking like Glenn Beck does; that even bad publicity is good publicity.

You can't tell me that no one warned them that it was the same gun. I believe they knew what they were doing, wanted to make a point, and here we are, still talking about it....which is one of the points of publicity.

Even a gunner can shoot themselves in the foot.
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Old September 2, 2011, 12:29 PM   #6
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IIRC, Rep. Giffords owns a G19 and at times carried it. Not sure of the source but it true would be a good counter.

I do agree that thinking about PR is useful, though. Mixed bag, can't please everyone.
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Old September 2, 2011, 12:46 PM   #7
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From a very far point of view... the other side of the Pond.
While I understand that the bleeding hearts would have cried outrage even if the prize had been a BB gun, and while I like the pro gun stance of the GOP, I would say that the choice of the gun is.... I was going to say "tasteless" for lack of another adequate term.

Imagine if in 1963-1964 someone were to give as a prize in a party event a scoped Carcano.....

Just the Humble Opinion of a detached observer from Italy...

... and, to end with a lighter note. The Glock is rubbish, they should have given away a Beretta92 (or a pink Neos)....
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Old September 2, 2011, 12:53 PM   #8
Nico Testosteros
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Tasteless and tacky. They could have chosen a shotgun or deer rifle to raffle. I'm doubting this is an accident.
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Old September 2, 2011, 03:36 PM   #9
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
From a very far point of view... the other side of the Pond.
While I understand that the bleeding hearts would have cried outrage even if the prize had been a BB gun, and while I like the pro gun stance of the GOP, I would say that the choice of the gun is.... I was going to say "tasteless" for lack of another adequate term.
Oh, nonsense. If Loughner had mowed those people down with a Toyota Camery, should they have avoided auctioning off a 4Runner?

It wasn't even the same model Glock.

This story is just another example of people assigning meaning to an inanimate object which, in the right hands could have as easily saved Giffords from her fate as caused it.

Giffords herself owns a Glock 19. It would make as much sense if the story was that had chosen the Glock to honor Giffords. Equally ridiculous.
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Old September 2, 2011, 08:38 PM   #10
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I posted this on a news blog.

I believe the glock 23 is the standard issue sidearm for the Pima County Sheriff's Office. If it is not, I know that a significant number of Law Enforcement Officers carry this weapon as their standard duty side arm.

Should we require these Officers to give up their weapons because a criminal used a similiar model to murder six people and wound a Democratic Congresswomen. The Representative, by the way, was a supporter of the 2nd Admendment.
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Old September 2, 2011, 10:41 PM   #11
ClydeFrog
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US Rep Giffords; Glock 19, politics...

I, too heard that Rep Giffords and/or her US Navy officer/NASA shuttle crew member husband own a Glock 9x19mm but I didn't include it in the post because I like to confirm media details before I comment about it.

As I stated, due to the tragic events in AZ, more thought or concern could have been used by the GOP members in Pima County.

As for the Glock LE use remarks, at one point Glock's execs claimed that nearly 60% of all US law enforcement used Glock pistols as duty weapons.
If AZ cops use or carry Glocks they did it long before the shooting spree & to bring up that issue is somewhat moot.

ClydeFrog
ps; Some of the same media reports about Rep Giffords also said she supported legal gun ownership & 2A issues.
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Old September 2, 2011, 10:48 PM   #12
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I personally think it's a non issue, we have a lot of events raffling guns off out here. I saw a Glock 19 raffled off to support a battered woman shelter recently, and our tactical unit raffled off a Glock 19 to raise funds for special uniform items the Dept wouldn't cover. This is a mountain made from a molehill.
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Old September 3, 2011, 12:09 AM   #13
maestro pistolero
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It is just a thinly veiled attempt to shift focus toward the tool of the crime and away from the behavior and the breakdown in system in which Loughner's mental illness had been observed by authorities who did nothing.

Last edited by maestro pistolero; September 4, 2011 at 01:56 AM.
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Old September 3, 2011, 06:54 AM   #14
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A Remington 870 12ga shotgun, a Ruger Mini-30 rifle or a S&W .44 DA revolver could have been replaced by the GOP group in AZ.
Why? To remain PC? I am sure no one was ever killed with those types of guns.

The news outlets are going to cry foul for any gun raffle. Remember the dealer here in Missouri that was giving away an "Assault" rifle with every vehicle purchased?

http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=4337 CNN reported that also.
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Old September 3, 2011, 11:00 PM   #15
ClydeFrog
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Random firearm examples....

The firearm models I posted were just examples.

BTW; A local news report aired by CNN on Sat even had the Pima County AZ GOP leader saying the Glock pistol prize may not have been a good idea.
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Old September 4, 2011, 04:42 PM   #16
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The Glock is a very popular weapon. Why wouldn't they give one away?
So now anyone that gives away a .357 or .45 away is dissing all of the LE that might have been killed by one?

Come on. I am sure that Glock gave them a favorable price and they are making the most of it. If no one raffled off the type of guns used in some type of crime them there wouldn't be many left to raffle now would there?

Since when is any one person more important than another?
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Old September 4, 2011, 05:24 PM   #17
maestro pistolero
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I would like to see a half-dozen more of them be donated to the raffle in Gifford's honor. I would pledge $100.00 toward a plan like that. We should turn their nonsense on it's head so it can finally resemble rational thought.
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Old September 4, 2011, 05:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeFrog
It is a bit tacky to raffle off a handgun from the exact same company that produced the firearm that murdered several citizens from your own community.
Suppose what's-his-name had, instead of shooting Ms. Giffords, run her down with a Ford Explorer. If the Arizona GOP wanted to raffle off a Ford Mustang as a fund-raiser, would you be demonizing Ford and saying it's "tacky" to be raffling off an automobile from the exact same company that produced the vehicle that murdered several citizens from your own community?

It's refreshing to see that the art of demonizing the instrument while ignoring the operator is alive and well.
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Old September 4, 2011, 06:37 PM   #19
maestro pistolero
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from the exact same company that produced the firearm that murdered
I certainly hope that firearm is arrested and charged with such a heinous crime.
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Old September 4, 2011, 07:01 PM   #20
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My wife said she saw something where the Pima GOP aquired a second Glock to raffle off, haven't found that yet.
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Old September 4, 2011, 09:05 PM   #21
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http://www.chron.com/news/article/2n...le-2154336.php

Missed the tickets on this one. I will let you know if they get any more to raffle off. Sort of throws a monkey wrench into the P/C when people keep buying these tickets.
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Old September 4, 2011, 11:59 PM   #22
ClydeFrog
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Semantics....

Now this just silly.
Most mature, adult forum members understand my posted remarks.
Using semantics or insults does not change my opinion on the topic.

As for the Ford vehicle example, it's not quite the same.
As I also posted, Glocks are very popular in the US but to raffle off a Glock pistol so soon after the mass shooting is in poor taste.
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Old September 5, 2011, 12:46 AM   #23
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The GOP raffling off a Glock is outrageous!

They keep talking about getting Americans back to work, revitalizing the economy, and then they go out and buy an Austrian pistol. C'mon.
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Old September 5, 2011, 01:32 AM   #24
maestro pistolero
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As for the Ford vehicle example, it's not quite the same.
Why is is not the same? If the Ford explorer were the weapon used to mow down those people and the raffle was for a Ford Explorer, why would it not be the same?

In each case, the same tool of the crime would have served two entirely different purposes. One good and one evil.

The only reason I can imagine why one is insensitive and the other not is that we have been conditioned to blame one inanimate object for deaths, and not the other. In point of fact, automobiles kill twice as many innocent people as firearms.

But our rational mind won't allow the demonization of an object which is owned by nearly every adult in the population.

And our rational mind suspends that logic when it comes to firearms because we have been conditioned to consider them as somehow inherently evil, or representing evil.

ClydeFrog, you have been hornswoggled.
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Old September 5, 2011, 05:59 AM   #25
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by ClydeFrog
As for the Ford vehicle example, it's not quite the same.
Please explain how it's different. It's exactly the same to me or I wouldn't have bothered posting the analogy.
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