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Old August 16, 2011, 04:11 AM   #1
bitttorrrent
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Vacation House in MI, Chicago resident

This is pretty common around the east side of the lake, in Indiana and we are just a few minutes past the indiana border, to have a summer house in Harbor Country near the lake.

Anyway, after much ado, i have my chicago gun permit and sent in registration for my guns here. However, what do i do in MI?

There was a law case in NY that I read here that ended up in the judge saying that a domicile, your main residence, is the only one considered a home. That is nonsense. My "home" is where my family is. We spend a lot of time up there, summers, christmas, most weekends etc. and i have some guns up there.
It is rural and i want a shotgun and some other arms - there are cougars in the area and i have two small children.

So, how do i do this. I have sent inquiries to the local police and asked the MI state police office which is up the road. State police does not want to be involved and local police have not responded.
My Parents live near and they just have to register their guns, but that is only available to residents which I am not.

Anyone have any experience with summer homes out of state?
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Old August 16, 2011, 05:24 AM   #2
10Ringmagic
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What part of MI has Cougars?

Documented?
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Old August 16, 2011, 06:05 AM   #3
Aguila Blanca
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According to the BATFE FAQ site, if you OWN a vacation home in another state, you are a "resident" of that second state for those periods when you live there and you are legally entitled to purchase firearms in that state as a resident.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

See #12
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Old August 16, 2011, 08:00 AM   #4
oneounceload
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MI has no gun registration for long arms - you mentioned shotgun -

Quote:
Rifles and Shotguns

Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No
Registration of rifles and shotguns? No
Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No
Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No

Handguns

Permit to purchase a handgun? Yes (*License to purchase - see below)

Registration of handguns? Yes

Licensing of owners of handguns? No

Permit to carry handguns? Yes. Carrying concealed or openly in a motor vehicle requires a license.
From here:
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_mi.htm
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Old August 16, 2011, 08:16 AM   #5
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dupe post
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Old August 16, 2011, 03:42 PM   #6
bitttorrrent
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Awesome - thanks for the info.

You are right, no problems with shotgun for purchase or registration.

For handguns:

"To purchase a handgun from either a dealer or private individual, the buyer must obtain a license to purchase from the chief of police if the buyer lives in a city, or the county sheriff if he lives in an area without an organized police department."

So I would need a permit to purchase which is valid for 10 days. I could probably get one from local Sheriff as this is a small town and as other poster stated, "while I am staying there it is my house and should be considered a resident."

I will copy that and bring it with me in a couple weeks when I go up there.

If too much trouble, I'll just get a shotgun. But I would like to be able to buy some stuff up there. There is a nice little gun shop my Dad found up the road and I want to support the locals.

thanks
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Old August 16, 2011, 03:53 PM   #7
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitttorrent
and as other poster stated, "while I am staying there it is my house and should be considered a resident."
That's not at all what I said ... and I didn't say it, the BATFE said it.

What they said is, IF it is your house (you own it, not rent it) you ARE (not "should be") a resident of that state during those periods when you are residing in that house.

What you should do is print out that portion of the BATFE FAQ, then Google up the section of the US Code they reference and print that out, then highlight the portion that addresses this issue.
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Old August 16, 2011, 05:30 PM   #8
Don H
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Just remember, if the gun shop isn't comfortable with selling you a firearm, they have the right to refuse to do so. They may well take the position that without you having a Michigan ID, they're not going to take the chance on that sale.
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Old August 17, 2011, 01:21 AM   #9
bitttorrrent
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Yes, thanks for the clarification...A. Blanca. I do own the house and I will print out the sections you highlighted when I talk to the Sheriff.

The house is an 1850's farm house we saw driving thru a little town called New Troy - near Sawyer, Mi. Its only a few miles from the beach, but have a few acres of our land that looks out on 40 acres of wetlands. I have restored the house from its gutted and abandoned condition. It is the mill house for the mill down the street by the galien river.

And I have not seen a cougar/mountain lion, but there have been sightings and I saw a paw print in the snow season before last that was not a coyote - it was a cat print. Not that I would want to shoot one, but if it was trying to eat my 2yr old son, it would be gone.

And just for general protection. We are out in the dark and everyone else in MI seems to have a gun or shotgun around, so I think I should have at least a shotgun.

I might buy my Dad's Remington 1100 because he does not use it, or just buy a new one. He just got a new Taurus judge rifle that shoots .45lc and .410 shotgun shells. Pretty smooth shooting gun. Not sure if I should call it a shotgun or rifle.

Last edited by bitttorrrent; August 17, 2011 at 01:34 AM.
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Old August 17, 2011, 05:07 AM   #10
10Ringmagic
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Quote:
And just for general protection. We are out in the dark and everyone else in MI seems to have a gun or shotgun around, so I think I should have at least a shotgun.
Yea, it's pretty wild and crazy here in MI, especially in the rural to semi rural areas.
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Old August 18, 2011, 11:18 AM   #11
bitttorrrent
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yep, far different than living in the City. But it is a great escape and hardly over an hour's drive. We really like it up there.
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Old August 18, 2011, 11:27 AM   #12
C0untZer0
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I don't know about cougars...

But Michigan does have wolverines...
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Old August 18, 2011, 06:56 PM   #13
10Ringmagic
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And Spartans!!
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Old August 18, 2011, 08:45 PM   #14
shortwave
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Quote:
But Michigan does have wolverines...
Quote:
And Spartans!!
And the thugs from Detroit/Flint and the bigger cities are traveling out to the smaller remote towns looking for crimes of opportunity.
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Old August 18, 2011, 09:25 PM   #15
rjrivero
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Maybe a Different thought:

You live in Illinois. Which is a pain in the rump as far as firearms laws go. You already have a FOID card, Right? Go ahead and buy yourself a pistol in Illinois.

Get an out of state pistol permit for a state that issues them, like Florida. (You can do that via USPS).

Then you can carry your pistol IN MICHIGAN per their reciprocity law. Of course you have to carry your pistol out of Illinois per their draconian laws, but once you get into Indiana, you can load up, holster and off you go, around the Lake.
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Old August 19, 2011, 07:59 AM   #16
bitttorrrent
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That is a great point ...rivero.

I saw some literature when taking the required class to get my Chicago Firearm Permit - (just to be legal in my own house and or locked in car on way to range).

I think I might pursue that, get the FL permit, and use reciprocity. Will be legal and work in MI, which is what I want.

Thanks. It just great that I live in IL which is now the ONLY state that does not have a concealed carry license. That is pretty sad and telling of the corrupt and antiquated elected officials in this state. That is why gas here is the highest in the nation. Complete inept and corrupt government. Way to go Illinois!
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Old August 23, 2011, 03:07 PM   #17
drtodd
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All of this information comes from MSP Legal Update #86.

If you are an Illinois resident and have a FOID Card, you may transport your pistol in Michigan without registering it. All of the following stipulations must be met:
1. The person is licensed by his or her state of
residence to purchase, transport, or carry a
pistol, (This is the FOID Card)
2. The person is in possession of the license while
in Michigan,
3. The person owns the pistol possessed in
Michigan,
4. The person possesses the pistol for a lawful
purpose as defined in MCL 750.231a, and
5. The person is in Michigan less than 180 days and
does not intend to establish residency here.

However, if using your FOID card, or an NONresident permit as an exception to registration, the pistol must be transported for a lawful purpose,
A lawful purpose includes (not limited to) going to or from any one
of the following:
 A hunting or target area
 A place of repair
 Moving goods from a home or business to
another home or business
 A law enforcement agency (for a safety
inspection or to turn the pistol over to the agency)
 A gun show or place of sale or purchase
 A public shooting facility
 Public land where shooting is legal
 Private property where a pistol may be lawfully
used

Open carry without a Concealed pistol License is generally legal in Michigan except on the premises (includes parking lots) of:

 A depository financial institution (e.g., bank or
credit union)
 A church or other place of religious worship
 A court
 A theater
 A sports arena
 A day care center
 A hospital
 An establishment licensed under the Liquor
Control Code
(This means ANY place licensed to sell alcohol, whether they currently sell it or not)



If you decide to get a concealed pistol license, ie a license that allows you to conceal from a state in which you reside, you may NOT carry a concealed pistol in Michigan, as you must be a resident of the state that issued the concealed permit. However, Michigan recognizes all out-of-state permits carried by residents of the issuing state.

I have included the MSP Legal update #86 for your reference, and there are links to the relevant laws provided on that document.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them and I will answer as best I can. However, I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one on internet forums.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

From MSP Legal Update # 86

Out-of-state residents
Non-residents may legally possess a firearm
more than 30 inches in length in Michigan. In
order for a non-resident to possess a pistol in
Michigan, he or she must either be licensed to
carry a concealed pistol or be licensed by his or
her state of residence to purchase, carry, or
transport a pistol. The ownership of property in
Michigan does not qualify a non-resident to
possess a pistol in Michigan.

Non-resident concealed pistol possession
MCL 750.231a makes it legal for a non-resident
of Michigan with a valid CPL issued by his or her
state of residence to carry a concealed pistol in
Michigan as long as the pistol is carried in
conformance with any and all restrictions
appearing on the license. Individuals with out of
state CPLs are subject to Michigan laws that
govern Michigan CPL holders. As many states
issue CPLs to out of state residents, officers
should verify that the person actually resides in
the state that issued the license. If the person
does not reside in the state that issued the
license, Michigan does not recognize the CPL
and the person may not carry a concealed pistol
in Michigan.

Possession of pistols by non-residents
MCL 28.432 makes it legal for non-residents of
Michigan who hold valid CPLs issued by another
state to possess a non-concealed pistol in
Michigan without complying with Michigan’s
pistol registration requirements. Additionally,
MCL 28.422 exempts residents of other states
from Michigan’s pistol registration requirements
therefore, allowing them to possess a pistol in
Michigan, if all of the following requirements are
met:
1. The person is licensed by his or her state of
residence to purchase, transport, or carry a
pistol,
2. The person is in possession of the license while
in Michigan,
3. The person owns the pistol possessed in
Michigan,
4. The person possesses the pistol for a lawful
purpose as defined in MCL 750.231a, and
5. The person is in Michigan less than 180 days and
does not intend to establish residency here.
A non-resident must present the license issued
by his or her state of residence to a police officer
upon demand. Failure to do so is a 90-day
misdemeanor. When transporting a firearm in
Michigan, non-residents must transport pistols in
compliance with MCL 750.231a (discussed
above in the Transporting Firearms section),
unless they have a concealed pistol license
issued by their state of residence.
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Old August 26, 2011, 03:51 PM   #18
bitttorrrent
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ok, I was all set to get a Utah concealed carry permit - no big deal. The same place around the corner that I took my course for my Chicago permit offers a course for this - 100.00.

HOWEVER, looking at the above post, it now appears that MI only observes reciprocity for individuals who live in the state that they are getting their permit from.

A
Quote:
s many states
issue CPLs to out of state residents, officers
should verify that the person actually resides in
the state that issued the license. If the person
does not reside in the state that issued the
license, Michigan does not recognize the CPL
and the person may not carry a concealed pistol
in Michigan.
So I can easily get an out of state permit from Utah and being a resident of IL, and the reciprocity maps show that MI honors this, but if you look closer, they don't.

So if I go through all this trouble to get my Utah concealed carry permit, and get pulled over in MI, I would still get in big trouble. Now I CAN legally transport as I am legal to transport and own in Chicago - have FOID, Chicago Gun Permit and a registered gun all legal through the City of Chicago.

I Just want to be able to carry up in MI where I own property.

Should I get the Utah permit or is it useless?
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Old August 27, 2011, 02:38 AM   #19
therealdeal
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Posts: 627
non-resident Utah and/or Florida CCW permits will not help you in Michigan

Michigan does not recognize non-resident CCW permits, as in a CCW permit from a state you are not a legal resident of. They do not issue non-resident permits either. You would have to get a Michigan CCW permit as a MI resident. Obviously you can't get one as an IL resident. If you are a LEO, you can CCW in all 50 states to include IL. Can you get a CCW resident permit for MI if you aren't? Do this for MI if possible unless you are a LEO in which case it isn't necessary.

check out this website:

www.handgunlaw.us

click on MI and those laws, reciprocity agreements, and other info will pop up. You can click on IL and other states as well. For federal laws, click on "U.S.A." after going to the above website.
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Old August 27, 2011, 11:11 AM   #20
Aguila Blanca
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According the BATFE, if you OWN property in two states, you are a "resident" of whichever state you are in while living there. Unless there's a different definition of what constitutes residency in MI, the fact that the OP owns a house in MI and "resides" in that house at various times would appear to make him eligible for a MI resident CCW.

Of course, that's logical and the way things should be. It probably wouldn't shake out that way.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; August 30, 2011 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old August 28, 2011, 10:21 AM   #21
Webleymkv
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If you can get a Michigan CCL, then you would also be able to legally carry in Indiana as all out-of-state licenses are recognized here.
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